Opinions on my planned GVT + Pyramid style routine for on cycle
Hey guys, I also posted this in the routines section, but i thought id post it in here as well to get some more criticism/responses. thanks in advance for your input guys!
wanting to get some feedback from the more experienced users and vets of the board on a routine I have put together for my test E/ eq cycle i will be starting in two weeks. What I am posting here is the result of my OCD and countless hours of planning during cardio when I was dieting because I had nothing else to do :P, so this may be a long read.
Some background info:
-24 yrs old - 25 next month :(
-currently ending a cut at 5'8 178 lbs ~8% bf, the next two weeks will be spent deloading, slowly adding calories/ decreasing cardio, and doing self myofascial therapy 3x per week to do everything I can to prevent injury during cycle and make sure everything is ready to go.
-been training seriously for roughly 7 years now, trained natural for 6 of those years and now going into my 3rd cycle
cycle info:
1-16: test e 500 mg/wk
1-16: eq 600 mg/wk
1-4, 17-19: test prop 100 mg EOD
1-4: igf des + mgf
2-24: .25 mg arimadex EOD (start day 7), if nips sore .5 eod, if still sore .5 ED
11-19: hcg 500 IU/wk stop 7 days before pct
PCT: 20-23: Clomid 100/100/50/50, Nolva 40/40/20/20, aromasin 6.25 mg/day igf des/ mgf
start pct 3 days after last prop shot
will be using igf des/mgf to create new stem cells (mgf) and igf to differentiate those stem cells, putting one cycle in the first four weeks so I can take advantage and hypertrophy these new muscle cells during the cycle, and adding in the second mgf/igf cycle in at PCT for an extra something to allow gains to be kept after the cycle.
diet:
the current plan is to have calories around 3500, protein 400g, carbs 275g, and fats 85g on training days. As a natural i always had a habit of eating way too fucking much while bulking, and would easily get over 20% bf while eating over 4000 calories, and have found that anything over 3000 really just made me gain too much fat, so calories will be watched very closely because I would like to stay around 10% bf this go around, but if i find i am staying lean i will absolutely increase the calories. Lately ive been curious to test the 'theory' that having higher healthy fat macros rather than carbs will be a better choice in terms of macro breakdown when it comes to anabolism, most research seems to point in this direction, since the main role of carbs is to replenish glycogen/ energy stores, and healthy fats can increase natural hormone levels (not that im too worried about that :P), and play other roles in terms of actual muscle growth, so it seems like a more optimal choice for maximal muscle gain So on non training days i plan to decrease carbs to 150g or so, increase fats to around 130g, and keep protein at 400g.
Also, instead of the typical 'bro-meal breakdown' i have followed for years of the typical 6 meals a day, eating every 2-3 hours i will instead be using 4 meals eating 4-5 hours apart excluding a pwo shake of 30g whey and 30g waxy maize, as it seems that eating less frequently actually is better for protein synthesis (ala studies from layne norton), and I love eating bigger meals :).
cardio: cardio on cycle will be 3-4x per week consisting of either 30 mins low intensity cardio or hiit for roughly 15 mins, sprints/biking uphill with 1-2 mins of lower intensity cardio in between or so
TRAINING ROUTINE: okay, now that I think all the background info has been taken care of ill actually post what the point of this thread is:
So like the title says, I plan to utilize a combination of GVT (10x10) and pyramid style training to be done as an 8 day training cycle, so 3 days of GVT, 1 day of rest, then 3 days of pyramid style, 1 day of rest, and repeat. I will also add that I plan to go 6 weeks of hard training, then 1 week of a deload and then probably switch the exercises for the next 6 weeks, etc.
I plan to layout the routine like this:
pyramid training: 5 working sets per exercise, 3-4 exercises per body part - 12, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps - or 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 for isolation exercises. (After four weeks or so may add in 4 drop sets of 6, 8, 10, 12 for each exercise)- rest 1-3 mins between sets, 3 mins for movements like squat/dl
GVT: 10x10 for each bodypart - rest 60-90 secs between sets
Day 1: Back/Bi
- Rack Pulls 10x10 (May reduce to 10x3 depending on recovery)
- Pullups 10x10
- BB shrugs 4x12 (may throw these out)
- 10x10 db seated curls
- 3 sets rear delt
Day 2: Chest/tri/ shoulders
-10x10 flat db bench
-10x10 bb standing military press
-10x10 overhead straight cable bar pushdown
cardio
Day 3: Legs/abs
-10x10 atg squats
-10x10 glute ham raise
-5x3 seated calf raise
-4 sets weighted decline situps
Day 4: rest/ cardio
Day 5: back/bi
-Deadlift x12,10,8,6,4
-vbar pulldowns x12,10,8,6,4
-tbar rows x12,10,8,6,4
-bb shrugs x15,12,10,8,6
-preacher curls x12,10,8,6,4
-db incline curls x15,12,10,8,6
-db hammer curls x15,12,10,8,6
Day 6: Chest/shoulder/Tri
-db incline press x12,10,8,6,4
-smith decline press x12,10,8,6,4
-db incline flies x15,12,10,8,6
-db shoulder press x12,10,8,6,4
-bb seated shoulder press x12,10,8,6,4
-db side raises x15,12,10,8,6
-db skullcrushers x15,12,10,8,6
-vbar cable pushdowns x15,12,10,8,6
-ezbar french press x15,12,10,8,6
cardio
Day 7: legs/abs
-atg squat x12,10,8,6,4
-leg press x12,10,8,6,4
-bb walking lunges x15,12,10,8,6
-db straight leg dl x12,10,8,6,4
-lying leg curl x15,12,10,8,6
-standing calf 5x20
-weighted decline situps 4 sets
Day 8: rest
basically only the last set of each exercise will be taken to failure in both the 10x10 and pyramid days, and each week the goal is to add 5-10 more lbs on each lift on the compound movements, and at least fit in 1 more rep at the same weight on the isolation exercises. i tend to train to failure almost always because i hate stopping short and believe this has been detrimental to my gains over the years, so i gotta be careful about this...
So obviously i will be in the gym and training different bodyparts on different days of the week. For the first week of the cycle I will just be doing the pyramid style training, then in the beginning of week 2 is when i plan to add in the GVT, because by then I will be receiving some of the benefits of the test P to aid in recovery of so much training.
So this is the current plan for my on cycle routine that I designed to take every advantage possible of being on cycle to yield as much gains as possible, I want to have everything accounted for and ready to go, no second guesses, no stone unturned.
The goal of this cycle is pretty simple, gain as much muscle as humanly possible, while keeping fat gains to a minimum in order to put on size for my first bodybuilding show next year
So what do you guys think? I'm sure im forgetting something, but any criticism is welcome and thanks a lot if you actually read through this whole thread lmao!
- Bookmark
- 0
- 0
Imo and my endocrinologists views...eating less more often is better for protein synthesis ..approx 30g proteins can be processed every two to three hours..MAX....so if you did 50g every 5 hours then it most likely be processed alright..but say you did 100g..then some would be wasted from oxidation..which is fancy way of saying wasted...but with the addition of anabolics and intensely training then my personal belief is the bodies performance on protein synthesis and utilization is doubled tripled maybe more...
Short story=eating more often..more times per day..is healthier regardless of goals..just easier on the body...
this is what i used to think as well which is why i ate 6+ meals for years, but it seems now there is more research being published that says this is just typical broscience, check out this read by layne norton:
http://jerrybruton.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/optimal-protein-intake-an...
heres another:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf
AnonThose were some nice reads! But I hate powerpoint type slides.
Haha yeah I hate powerpoint... Teachers who use them were always so shitty... Might as well just not teach angive me the slides so I can just read them off myself!
But yeah man im really gonna keep track of layne's work more closely, him and Dave Palumbo are certainly some of the brightest minds in the industry
search in the google bar for '' A Basic Guide to human growth hormone'' that might give you more info.
just wondering how many IU are you planning on using for the igf? and do you have t3 or t4 for thyriod stimulation? your not going to us insulin are you, because if you don't know what dose or have a doc giving you the slin you could hurt yourself bad,or worse. I think you should put it in the freezer for another time. I know it's tempting, but growth hormones are just like tren, use should wait until you have a lot more cycle experience. just my opinion.
igf isnt measured in IU, but it will likely be 25 mcg prewo bilaterally for a total of 50 mcg, and mgf postworkout bilaterally 100 mcg for a total of 200 mcg. Definently staying away from insulin, and t3 for that matter for a good while. no plans to run actual HGH anytime soon either.
your right I still had hgh on my mind. so I would really like to know your results with the mgf when you get done. you have got me curious now. did some quick reseach on it and looks promising. sent a fr. so we can talk more about this. good luck on the cycle.
yeah man, ive read some good stuff about it with regards to bringing up lagging bodyparts, im curious just to do every injection into my weakest bodypart (biceps) just to see if they really do grow at a faster rate compared to the rest, but i will most likely just go with pwo injection of whatever bodypart gets worked that day.
so let me make sure i've got this right If I had 5mg of mgf I could do 100mcg for 50 days which is recommended. is this correct? I have not been able to find if other peptides are needed along with the mgf. so do you recommend anything else?
Yes, that dosing sounds correct, just make sure your mgf is not mgf-peg because the pegylated version is only taken like 3x a week on off days due to it being in your system longer. I have not yet used mgf myself, but most logs I've read have people using it with some form of igf because they seem to positively effect each other, but im sure you can run it alone as well
also I would cut back on all th deadlift work ,you have 3 in a wks time . Do rack pulls or dead lifts not both ,thats if you like your back. "talking from experience". I like rack pulls my self it seems to put more size on than deadlifts.
thanks for the response, so i take it you didnt see very good results from doing 10x10? i may just keep it in for four weeks or so and see how it goes.
okay, i will add in the rear delt and calf training to be like the others, and may throw out rack pulls for some barbell rows instead
also for the igf comment, i have seen that guys like datbtru say it is better over long term, low dose use than short cycles at higher doses, what was your experience with it?
another question - how do you think a routine like layne norton's PHAT routine would do while on cycle? I was going to save it for PCT since it will be a similar layout and has been shown to be pretty effective for naturals, but i am curious as how it would do on cycle, i figured i would benefit from more volume than normal on cycle so i am hesitant in doing it.
no I didn't see the results I was looking for with 10x10, but that was just me. on cycle i see better results with 15-20 sets on some of my muscle groups and others i only need 6-9 at the most. every body is diff so if you havn't tried it yet go for it. I was just telling you my experience. I don't have experience with igf or the like i'm waiting till i'm in my mid 30's early 40's before I get in to that adventure.
I have done a lot of research on hgh and igf lr3 and talked to people that do it and from all the info I have gathered it is a long term compound,some people have been on for a year and didn't see in my opinion results worth the thoundsands of $ they put in to that stuff i think that's for pro bodybuilders looking for that last oz of muscle or to get an edge in the gym not for someone just starting aas. as for phat haven't tried it, I found what works for me so I havn't looked in to other routines, but if it's geared(no pun intended) towards natural people then it's probably not going to work for someone on gear.
i see, yeah i will probably be staying away from the peptides after this, but since ive already got them i am curious to see how much they will help, especially during pct. Glad to see my way of thinking is on the right track with the type of routine, ive never been one to train high volume honestly, i would always go heavy, with relatively low volume and always to failure and that really hasnt been very productive for me lately, so im hoping high volume and gradual progression in weight will do me alot of good.
well one igf is not going to do what you think in 4 weeks it should be done for months.
I don't think you should be doing any kind of growth hormone at 25. also you left out some important body parts like rear delts and calves should be trained like every other body part:8-12reps and as heavy as possible. also 10x10 gets old after a month or so.you end up saving your energy for the last couple of sets and not getting that awesome workout you would like. high volume is important for a anabolic cycle but I wouldn't have a set number of sets. just train as hard as you can and if you get only 6-8 sets for a body part atleast you know you gave it 100%