posted Sun, 09/02/2012 - 07:23
6024
Nolva with Deca... Whats the deal with it?
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So I hear a lot of people saying not to take nolva while taking Deca. What is the reason for that? I would think that since Deca has such a high conversion rate to estrogen and mimics test that you would at least want to take something like 25mg of Nolva EOD. Can somebody shed some light on this for me?
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BostonDONT DO IT! Nolvadex upregulates the progesterone receptor. Bad shit happens when you try to treat deca gyno with nolvadex...IT GETS WORSE! Hard painful lumps. Letro if aromasin doesnt work.
yeah bro, no nolva with TREN for the same reason.I want adding that nolva lows igf (and this reduces the gain)while aromasin is one of the best way because it increases igf
Nolva is part of your PCT and shouldn't be ran during your cycle.
On cycle you should take an AI such as adex/asin
yes bro i agree..I tried adex and aromasin in my past.Aromasin worked better for me 12.5mg ed
AnonI've always taken Nolva for my PCT but not until recently have I started to hear this. So with the Adex you would want take something like .25mg EOD to suffice the estrogen conversion but not completly shut down your estro?
Ok, i've produced a breakdown for you in order to:
1) Uncerstand what Nolva is/does
2) Understand what an AI is
3) Understand the two types of AI
4) When to use an AI/PCT
5) Knowledge about PCT/SERMs
Nolvadex- increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone. And also helps block estrogen. However, it helps your body increase your sperm count because of that. In fact the bad thing about Nolvadex unlike Clomid is that it doesn’t on its own increase sperm count or their motility. However, you still needed it because it does increase your LH and FSH which we need for healthy testis.
Aromatase Inhibitors come in 2 types. Type 1 and Type 2. First Type 1 AI's bind by a process called hydroxylation; this hydroxylation process produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now the enzyme is permanently blocked even after all of the inhibitor is removed and can only be resumed by new enzyme synthesis. Type 2 Inhibitors on the other hand function all the same in their ability to reduce the binding process of the enzyme and the receptor. Except once the drug is discontinued or the concentration of the drug is sparse enough it is possible for the enzyme to seperate itself from the Inhibitor and eventually will allow renewed competion between the Inhibitor and the Enzyme for the receptor site. Aromasin is a type 1 AI and once it does what it's purpose is we don't need to continue use. Letro and Adex are Type 2 Ai's and the success of those drugs are continigent on the Doses and protocol of which we use them. Once you stop them you expose yourself to an Estrogen rebound. Now having said all of that there are also many other reason to why Aromasin use is beneficial to a Bodybuilder. One is Arimidex/Anastrozole Decreases IGF-1 18% while Aromasin/Exemestane Increases IGF-1 28%. Another is Aromasin is also known to decrease estrogen between 90-95% while boosting Endogenous Testosterone by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle.
SERM- Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator- are a class of compounds that act on the estrogen receptor. A characteristic that distinguishes these substances from pure receptor agonists and antagonists is that their action is different in various tissues, thereby granting the possibility to selectively inhibit or stimulate estrogen-like action in various tissues. Clomid and Nolvadex are examples of these.
Mode of Action for SERM
Estrogenic compounds span a s
pectrum of activity ranging from:
1) Full agonists (agonistic in all tissues) such as the natural endogenous hormone estrogen
2) Mixed agonists/antagonistics (agonistic in some tissues while antagonist in others) such as tamoxifen (a SERM)
3) Pure antagonists (antagonistic in all tissues) such as fulvestrant (ICI-182780).
You want either adex/asin on cycle at the following doses:
Aromasin @ 12.mg EOD
Arimidex 0.25mg EOD if nipples get sore than 0.5mg EOD if still sore 0.5mg EOD.
References:
Cdaddy7 - (http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/ais-in-pct-to...)
GS9902 - (http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/pct-and-aromasin)
nice post mate.
Another +3 from me brother P... you are becoming a force to be reckoned with here in the cycles boards... loving your work rate and input lately bro! stay cool and dont get burnt out we need your help in here
cdaddy7+1 from G&C Productions. That's why we research and bring the information to the community to help. Glad u to have u with us P. Thanks for helping. You have great info in ur posts!! Keep it up
+1 from me bud for taking the time
AnonI already have the Adex and taking it exactly like you explained above for a couple of weeks now. Thank you for the breakdown. I'm going to put that in my little book of knowlage. I just needed to know what to tell a couple of guys at the gym because the Deca with Nolva is something that I disagree with and they swear that it's okay to do.
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