Zscd9's picture
Zscd9
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+ 1 HCG full term or PCT only?

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Hey fellas im about to start a cycle after going au natural for the last 5 years. Very basic: dbol, test e, and eq. Been off for a long time so im almost treating this like a first cycle, thats the reason for the moderate to low doses. My PCT has always been real important to me so i like it to be on point. So with that said here is my question. Last time i used gear is was pretty well known that HCG was for PCT and that was pretty much it. Now i read more and more that guys are using it through out their cycle. Why wait till the end if you can keep your natural test production up the whole time? Makes sense to me, but optimal dosages dont seem to be very clear. Ive heard 500IU twice a week, 1500IU once a week, and about 10 other dosages. So i wanted to see some of the pros experience with this and what they recommend. Thanks for the help guys! Here are some stats
27yrs
6'2
190 lbs
5th cycle:
1-12 500mg test/week
1-10 300mg EQ/week
1-4 30mg DBOL/day
AI's:
1-12 .5mg adex/EOD
PCT:
13-18 20mg nolv/day
13-16 25mg aromasin/day
13-15 1000IU vitamin E/day

cry_havoc's picture

I personally have used the POWER PCT program developed by Dr. Michael Scally for the Program for Wellness Restoration center. It is a formidable program and very effective for me at least. Upon taking the PCT HCG regiment my natural test production rebounds quickly and the boys are back to normal size usually within 8 days. And I keep a large amount of my gains. By the way it calls for 100 mg of clomid a day not 50. It actually is 50 mg twice a day. The book Muffin sourced for his comment is a good book with lots of solid verifiable information that is properly sourced and credited in the bibliography. For example there is actually and article on anavar and its effects on the testicular axis in HIV patients that is verified in the bibliography in a medical journal from Oxford 1993. Anavar is typically touted as having almost no effect on the gonads or the HPTA this is not true. In fact there is a 4 month natural test suppression. What this means is that everything he states he backs up with legit sources and journals and medical studies. However, there is a caveat, and that is that some of his cycle suggestions are outdated and very conservative and for good reason. (I do not agree with all his cycle suggestions). There is lots of information and lots of drug profiles complete with side effects and pros and cons.

That being said I would like to use this particular forum topic to segway into another point regarding PCT. It is completely irresponsible to do a cycle without having a proper PCT regiment in place before hand. I have a safe filled with four different cycles worth of gear and I do not will not touch it until I have enough PCT gear to cover each cycle. As some of you on here may have learned it is a bad idea to start a cycle without (a) enough juice to complete a cycle and (b) PCT gear on hand and AI's to protect you and assist in full recovery. This has been learned the hard way by people on here who have started anticipating that their source would come through for them only to discover that they have just wasted 6 weeks of time, money and gear because they didn't have all their products in place to do the job right. In truth a good well thought out cycle (ex...Pharma grade Deca and Test) will take close to $900 and 16-20 weeks. This includes gear for PCT and Cycle at a 12-16 week cycle and 45 days of PCT. As some of you know it can take 60 days to get AI's and Serms but only 8 to get test. My 2cents (not that anybody is asking),is it makes no sense financially or time management wise to have juice and not the proper AI's and PCT gear on hand before a cycle ensues.

Muffintop315's picture

The topic of HCG usage, at least in the anabolic community, is still one that is constantly being tweaked. From personal experience I can say that dosing it at 250 M/W/F while on test/tren/dbol kept my boys plump. Interestingly enough though, endo's don't take the same approach. From what I've read, most tend to go with extremely high doses at the start of PCT to counteract the effects of testicular atrophy.

According to Anabolics 2009, the PoWeR (program for wellness restoration) PCT program, which was designed by doctor with extensive experience working with those whom had taken supra-physiological levels of hormones, has individuals on HCG at 2500 IU eod for 16 days. Along with the HCG, nolva is run at 20mg ed for 45 days, and clomid at 50mg ed for 30 days. The reason being that LH levels promptly rose almost immediately after the cessation of steroid usage, but the testies themselves simply weren't responding. Since the SERM's serve as a means to encourage the natural production of LH, the idea behind the massive doses of HCG was to combat testicular atrophy and get them responding.

As much as I would have loved to actually implement this PCT plan, I only had access to 2 5000 IU vials myself, so I opted to run it on cycle, as well as during the gap between my last injection and the start of my SERM usage. I'm hoping that the sharp rise in LH will prompt a response, but many have simply run it on cycle and just jumped into PCT with positive results.

Zscd9's picture

Definitely will make the necessary changes. Just tried to put a little too much thought into that haha! Thanks for the perspective

fast48's picture

High five! I holler a lil but wanna see you post up in twelve Weeks how good you're doing. Everyone here will assist ya

datman's picture

that is what we are here for bro.. Smile

Zscd9's picture

http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Post%20Cycle%20Threapy%20(PCT).html

This is where i read some unique stuff about PCT that was intrigueing and provided the PCT im using in this cycle. But it could be garbage. Haha im no doctor and its hard trying to act like it!

fast48's picture

Datman gave you real world advice! Hence why he got 1 bonus added to his reply. That website you cite has some decent info and some third full of shit! This is being healthy! NOT captain caveman!

datman's picture

thanks bro Smile

datman's picture

we do pct the way we do it (clomid/nolva) because it works well... and there is no reason to reinvent the wheel... do i want to take a chance at something i dont know works knowing that i am risking my sexual well being, and gains if it doesnt work out?? absolutely not.. i'll stick with what i know works..

datman's picture

couple of things.. #1 +1 for posting your stats.. much appreciated.

also, if you are treating it like a first cycle, and i definately think you should especially since you have been off for 5 years.. whats wrong with a test only cycle? test e or c for 12 weeks- plus pct.. nice and easy and no hcg required.

3 if you are dead set on running this cycle, there are a few things that need to be changed... the adex i would start at a dose of .25mg eod and only up it if you feel that .25 isnt enough.. reason being, more than likely your estro will be too low with .5mg eod which can hinder your gains. in addition to this, HCG is usually ran from week 4 on at 500i.u per week- either one time per week, or split up into 2 250iu shots per week- do not run it into pct as it can cause estrogen spikes- so run it up to pct, then stop.

4 cycle is too short if you are going to be runing eq.. minimum 14-16 weeks for eq, also the dose is very low, probably not going to see much for gains at a dose like that, should help with joint issues you may have but beyond that, gains wont be extreme by any means..

5 pct should always be
nolva- 40/40/20/20
clomid 100/100/50/50/
it works.. why reinvent the wheel?

hope this helps out bro

Zscd9's picture

thanks for such good input on the cycle bro. I knew someone was going to mention duration and dose for the EQ. I threw it in bc i play a sport with a long hard season. I knew it would give me some help with my joints and my calorie intake through the cycle. Iv never taken this small of an amount before but figured it couldnt hurt. But you are right, i might as well save it for another cycle where i can take a higher dose for longer. With your comment about the arimidex... I have always been prone to estrogen side effects so i thought i was being safe, but i dont want to be so safe that i hinder my gains either. And the clomid.. I have never used it before but have read more and more that it isnt much of a necessity like people used to think. I always just used HCG and nolva in previous cycles. It seems more and more information comes out regarding PCT that i just dont know what to believe and what not to.