posted Tue, 01/28/2014 - 11:34
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Gave rats 25 mg day for 4 weeks and they hand gyno.
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Gave rats 25 mg day for 4 weeks and they hand gyno.
This is an extremely educational post for those that think AIs including letro are cure alls for gyno! As well as adv members who really don't know shit and some others that certainly do.
AnonSo from what im reading below is the aro is good. If that is the case then its only fair to the source change the title of this post since it isnt bunk.
I have to agree with you. The other thing is If he checks his SHBG I'm pretty sure it going to be elevated. He should also get his progesterone checked
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3335607
interesting
Everyone is missing what caused it. What caused his gynecomastia is a hormonal imbalance from hyperthyroidism. He's hyper. His blood test shows his TSH at .33 L which is an indication of hyperthyroidism. That's the problem. Most are correct in pointing out it's not his AI. Aro will suppress both E1 and E2. More so E1 at a higher percentage. But his E2 is low and his E1 is sky high. Both can cause Gyno. He has an estro/test embalance with his serum being at 152 and E1 over 200. The embalance is what's causing the gyno. That is also why he has no energy or libido his low serum test levels. Now help the man fix it. Now you know what's causing it.
http://www.uspharmacist.com/content/c/10260/?t=men%27s_health
DragonovYea his E2 is is low the aromasin is not Bunk
Total Estrogen takes account to estrogens that have nothing to do with Aromatase Enzyme which converts Testosterone to Estrodiol(E2)
So The Aromasin is G2G
Thanks for your help mega t. Now I have a much better understanding of the situation
My I phone is broke so I can't post any pics at the moment but it's def gyno...my right side is much bigger than left. Rubbery disc shaped lump around nip especially above it and there Itchy and puffy .I even went to doc. Gonna get on some nolva and hcg snd try to get LH and natural test up until I get in endo
Don't do hcg you will make it worse.
AnonTalk to J223 he's a smart cat when it comes to these tests. He's got u covered.
RustyhookerT883 answered ya. And great advice given
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/high-total-e-...
I felt like that before I jumped off the juice
RustyhookerExactly why you need full endo screen asap.
Now he needs a full endo screen what happened with "Peptides are bunk. Find a source with pharma or high quality asap!!!" Get a clue man.
it was determined that the OP was incorrect in stating his aromasin was bunk. Turns out it is good.
Yes I understand this, anyone with a basic understanding of BW would understand the AI is working here with his estradiol at 15. I just find it amusing how some so called advanced members first call the products bunk, then when those who have a clearer understanding of the circumstances correct the issue people change their sails. Thank God there are a few guys here who know what's going on and can correct those who think they know something, when in reality they don't know dirt. Some opinions here as well as other boards can be poison.
some members quickly glanced over this post and also thought the aromasin was bunk due to estrogen being elevated. It was a simple mistake.
And you can count on me for finding the wrong in things. It's what I do best. I'm always skeptical and think everyone is wrong until I can prove them right. It's how I'm wired. I do my best to find mistakes and point them out. lol
Yes it seems to be the same members who continuously try to discredit this source with nothing but false information.
What would u recommend for the gyno in the mean time rusty?
He is the last person you should ask advice from. Plenty of other guys in the post with a far better understanding of what's going on here.
I'm trying to get into one asap. Thanks for the help. This shit it so confusing and stressful
RustyhookerNo doubt your stressed. I can feel it right thru the screen. I'd hit up t883 and Carlos danger with all the info you have and then ask if nolva or mast may block nips while bloods get done. They research estro control thoroughly and my first go-to.
Cool, thanks. U hear so much different shit ya know.
I did a forum yestErday asking questions ab high total and low estradiol. Isn't roughly 30 what u need to be at?
RustyhookerSays 15 estradiol. Thats great. I misread and apologize.
Is this the aromasin in your pics from 7months ago?
No it was some I just got dec 16
wHAT was their response ??? reject? neglect? or reimburse?
READ THE LABS HIS ESTRADIOL IS NORMAL
the aromasin is NOT bunk you are just ignorant and don't know how to interpret a blood test
AnonHere's a post you made a year ago before you had the shiny tag:
up1down
reply
j223 12 months ago
Total estrogen is referring to all estrogens combined.
There are 3 different estrogens:
estrone/oestrone (e1)
estradiol (e2)
estriol (e3)
estrone (e1) - Produced mainly by adipose tissue, metabolite of e2 and there is an enzyme that converts androstenedione to estrone.(androstendione is produced from testes and adrenal gland). Estrone levels are low in babies and peak during puberty. Weaker than E2 but like E2 could be possible for causing feminization effects - such as breast tissue development
estradiol (e2) - produced in the testes in men. It also initiates the signal for spermatogenesis. Also has many other benefits. It helps with bone mineral density,proper heart and blood vessel health & arteriosclerosis prevention, Mood, sex drive, thyroid function, skin elasticity (which decreases without estradiol and causes thin skin and wrinkles) and fertility.
Too much E2 = loss of sex drive, and can effect erectile function.
Too little E2 = cardiovascular health, bone mineral density and libido will all be effected negatively
E2 binds stronger to receptors than E1, but typically if E2 is high E1 is also high
estriol (e3) is a weaker estrogen. It will be very high in pregnant women. But it is a less understood hormone. It has been shown to help with bone density, hearth health and has other properties. It has someestrogenic and anti estrogenic properties.
Again estriol is less understood but basically it is relatively weak but has good effects on the body.
generally most focus is on E2 so if your e2 is normal I wouldn't be too worried. But check your SHBG because estrogen binds to shbg mostly e2 and e1.
Exp tag means your here to help bro. Don't act too good cuz none of us are better than anyone else
AnonSo how about you help him instead of the bold red letter bullshit. That tag you have used to mean something to the folks who carried it. Appears you missed the memo
Don't assume I did not have intentions of helping the OP with the issue. The bold was simply so people could read and not panic, that's the point of red lettering, its easy to see. Like I said I'm more than happy to help.
I put it in bold so all the idiots commenting wouldn't continue to post thinking the shit is bunk when it's not
Please tell me what my tag has anything to do with the fact that people are not paying attention and commenting agreeing with the OP's mistake of believing the aromasin is bunk? I'm happy to help but there was at least 5 people agreeing with the post before I said anything. First things first the OP doesn't have high estradiol. We all see that. Okay next thing is we need to see a pic to determine if he really has gyno or if he just thinks he does. Third is if it really is gyno there is a number of things the OP can do. 1 - letro/nolva blast for 10-14 days followed by aromasin/nolva to prevent any rebound. Then at that point take more pics and post to see if anything happened. The op could additionally be getting bloodwork done to specifically check for ALL estrogens e1/e2/e3 etc to give an even more accurate idea of what is going on. I wasn't trying to do anything other than make it clear his aromasin wasnt bunk because a whirlwind of people seeing it would freak out I'm sure theres 100 guys using purchasepep aromasin so theres no reason to panic when the OP has legit Aromasin
I'm sure PP appreciates the support. I don't get how guys can go around calling products bunk when in reality they are clueless.
Men only produce estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2). Estriol (E3) is only bioactive in pregneant women. His total estrogens test in men is a measurement of E1 and E2 only. Since we know his E2 is at 15 the total estrogens is mostly E1.
Men also have E3. I am not sure how its produced, whether it is produced in the adrenal glands, testes or simply just E2 converted into estriol. Yeah that's what I think, im pretty sure its a metabolite of estradiol.
What I'm saying is it plays no role in males and is not bio active. It is not measure in the test taken so has no bearing.
RustyhookerMaybe my tag can be changed to "idiot".
If the aromasin was good wouldn't total estrogen be lower and how could I still get gyno. I don't claim to know eveything like some.. I would love some advice if I'm wrong
No not necessarily. Your E2 estradiol is under control. That is ALL aromasin will do is prevent the conversion of test to E2. It can still convert to other estrogens but typically E3 isn't known to cause gyno. Estrone (E1) is high during puberty especially in women and partially responsible for developing breasts during puberty and growth. You might need additional bloodwork to see whats going on. I'd also get your SHBG (sex hormone binding-globulin) checked. This is an oddball situation because typically e2 is responsible for gyno.
Are you 100% sure the gyno is completely visible and have you ever had gyno before? Also lets hear more info on your cycle are you taking any progestins?
Yeah I'm def gonna get more bloods and check SHBG. No I never had the lump and the pointy puffy nips. I just stopped sust, eq cycle. Last tren was few months snd was on prami also from PP. Thanks for the input to all of you guys
Take a pic lets see. E1,estrone could also cause gyno. It really depends. You'd have to get more specific bloodwork done. ALso you would have to rule out that you didn't have it already from puberty or something.
A lot of times people get bloodwork done seeing high estrogen then they psych themselves out thinking they have gyno because they "feel a lump" when really it's in their head. Just saying it's possible. Post a pic. Were you taking the same dose of aromasin and test the whole cycle including the time you took the bloods?
So why is my total estrogen so freaking high smart ass
RustyhookerThetes several TYPES of estrogen smart ass. Estradiol or E2 is the titty producer. So if you got gyno...then whats your cycle? I sent you a pm 2hrs ago asking that same question.
I know there's different types.. I was on sust and eq- I have all the high estrogen symtoms. Even saw a doc.It's really freaking bad.
RustyhookerYou might have had symptoms but your estradiol levels negate any arguments you have currently. 25Mg a day is a screaming high dose so what was your prior blood levels?
25 mg of exemestane is a high dose? Read some medical reports and get a clue. 25mg split in to 2 daily doses is the way to go with this exemestane because it's 9 hour half life. Some high dose guys split 50 daily. Once again you're showing your lack of knowledge.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14671195/
Last bloods before these were ab 5 months ago. I started feeling depressed, irritable , and libido went to shit, then gyno started. I went from 12.5 to 25 and things just got worst and worst so I got off cycle .Didn't feel this way on before I ran out of Ds aromasin. I'm just trying to get thus figured out
RustyhookerDamn. You nailed it. And ccorrect.
Oh man... This is the part where you trust some one with one very critical thing and shit like this happen...