posted Fri, 02/14/2025 - 10:36
1803
+ 4 How do you treat your ticker ?!
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This is the moment when you start to prepare your ticker for the next blast, which is just around the corner. Nebivolol 10 !
I usually cut in half….Btw AAS Direct service was +A. I ordered on Tuesday, I didn't receive the confirmation email (some error). They gave me support in the community and updated it on the website. The result: I received it today, Friday, crazy.. Almost ready for what's coming!
Ordered from:
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Nice pickup that's a great source! I've tried a couple heart medications, I'm not a fan of beta blockers tho. A good replacement for them is Clonidine, as stated below. Works even better than beta blockers for me. I also take Jardiance, Spiro lactone and Losartan. Never tried to Neb, but metropolol just turned everything gray mentally. Wasn't a fan. I've been on the mend for a while now but recently have upped the ante by incorporating tb500 which is clinically known to improve cardiac muscle and function. Hopefully this spring when I get an echo I'll be in the 60 to 70 range for LV function. Once you hit 40 or below you start to feel it. A lot of regrets here but you're doing the right thing with this post and looking out for your heart...+
Out of interest mate - when was it you realised you were obviously experiencing heart problems? What was the real warning sign?
I can tend to find that with beta blockers, Bisop isn't so bad low dose but ones like Propanolol can take your head off lol I think its because they numb the Adrenaline receptors so much, adrenaline in normal quantities makes you feel great, alert and healthy - once it becomes too great though obviously thats where high BP and panic can set in. Sorry to hear you are still suffering a bit buddy, do you think there were any particular contributing factors in the gear you were running or doses as to whats caused your heart issues? Its something I find very concerning these days, our hearts can be thickening and enlarging from steroid use and we are not even aware its happening in the early stages. You can be in Stage 1 heart disease and not even know it as there aren't any real sides. Its only when you hit Stage 3 it becomes more apparent when exercising and you are more fatigued, when at rest its still much different.
Yep I've got cardiomyopathy, definitely think it's gear related. But yea man, last spring I was getting short of breath and lightheaded after sets. I even tried slowing down on the reps and proper deep breathing during them. Then little things like going up the stairs and carrying a case of water from the car into the house I would feel out of breath and dizzy. After an echo and MRI they found that I had impaired function of the heart on a global level. Since then I've been taking meds and trying to treat the condition. I also have very mild sleep apnea but only tested at six events per hour. So it's borderline. The thick blood and hypertension I've carried through this past decade of running gear is most likely what weakened my heart. Sux
Sleep apnea is very common among AAS users and my sleep doctor scared the shit out of me, he said that it will kill me, sooner than later. I had 53 events per hour but My puppy chewed my hose for my machine and I've yet to get a new one. I just can't get on board with the mask. I would wake up every morning with my mask off and no recordings on the app. I've made a decision it's time to do what it takes. So thank you
Sorry to hear this buddy. Listen, I’m not looking to open up a can of worms here, and definitely not looking for that debate, but out of curiosity did this condition present itself after the covid vaccine?
It goes without saying mate that I am extremely sorry to hear all this, at the same time I thank you for being extremely honest and open about your situation. It is a HUGE help to everyone that you are letting us know of your experiences good and bad and I think it will be a big eye opener for us all about what can happen if you let your BP go uncontrolled for too long together with not checking the thickness of it in bloods etc. I definitely include myself in that too. Makes you realise that being considerate and safe with gear/cycles is much more important that running things as high as you can just for the sake of an extra 14lb's of muscle, being alive and healthy is what matters more. It sounds from everything that you have said that things have definitely improved somewhat though, are you finding now with the things you have managed to get better that you are able to train normally or is the dizziness something that will always be there?
Yes, it's true, because propanol ends up causing downregulation in the receptors too quickly... the saddest thing of all is this. Because the vast majority of steroid users will have after-effects for the rest of their lives, and 100% will have some change in cardiac function. The trick is to know how to play the game as safely as possible, but sometimes the side effects seem to be inevitable because even in phase 3 you may not notice anything. Why? Because the heart adapts, it strains to one side, changes the speed of circulation and makes changes to keep the machine running. The problem is that many times without knowing it, the person has a stroke or an already irreversible diagnosis. a doctor sport specialist told me that an echocardiogram can be perfect and everything seems normal, but that I shouldn't trust it alone. If I want to confirm the situation of my heart, I always need to do an imaging test, an echocardiogram with strain, because it is the only one that will confirm changes typical of PED users, such as myocardium conditions.
Meant to say the same at the end there lol
You fellas are spot on. But yeah running gear you sometimes feel invincible physically and mentally. Sure the extra confidence is great but cannot ignore the dangers and must stay on your p's and q's
Yes, you are right. In this lifestyle, the journey is simple, sometimes we win, sometimes we learn.
I am thinking about incorporating cycles of TB500 and BPC157 two to three times a year. For joints, muscle tissue and heart. Do you think it would be valid? I don't have any injuries, it would be like a preventive treatment. Have you noticed any cardiac improvement with the use of TB500 yet? Thanks for sharing that
Huge improvements from the tb500 + bpc157. If I could go back in time I would run bpc 157 during every cycle. After extensive research it appears to have vast cardioprotective properties. The tb500 is for when you are already in the danger zone. Study show it is effective at repairing cardiac muscle. I'm feeling a lot better from the tb500 cycle which I have 9 weeks into. Thank God. I have talked to a couple guys in this sport and they direct me towards peptide SS-31. Although it's 150 a vial they have stated that they have seen huge improvements in cardiac function even after only 2 weeks of use. A vial lasts a week. I've only found one popular and trust and peptide source that carries it "PS"*
If I could go back in time I would be all over keeping my hct and bp in check. Luckily my kidneys are fine but yeah no problem man.
Very interesting. Your report is simply sensational. I'm going to implement BPC 157 this year during my blast periods; let's see how it goes!. Yes, HC and BP are really key factors in longevity in the lifestyle we choose. Anyway, you're improving with the peptides, and yes, I heard something about this SS-31 that seemed to me to be very good support for the whole mitochondrial part, so I have faith that this will really help a lot. With ups and downs, we keep going. That's it. Life goes on; let's fucking go. --
I've also heard amazing things on SS-31 plus the source PS*.
I've adapted NAD into my Wellness peptide usage as well.
@BFG another great & useful comment on this.
Another fact that people don’t want to hear, or accept, is that so much of these problems and conditions are genetic. If you live in an urban area, shit a lot of suburban areas these days, the air you breathe and water you drink is carcinogenic. Food is always a concern as well. Even the amlodipine I take for BP can cause liver issues. I’ve met people in their late 70’s that were hard drug users, I remember one guy in his 80’s that was a bad alcoholic. Would stop eating and drink vodka for a few weeks until the ambulance went for him. Rinse and repeat. I laughed when I asked him if he realized this was killing him, his response? “Shit I’m 84, I quit smoking ten years ago, I have a few good years left in me.” 84. There’s people that smoke and wake up a recessive gene which winds up fatal in their 20’s. At the end of the day, the best advice I can give is enjoy each and every day, tomorrow is not promised. Personally I prefer to keep things reasonable, buy the fact is you just never know, people die every day.
Spot on, I agree 100% !
Very very true. I've got a heart catheter test coming up soon. If that comes back clear then the fifth line of diagnostic will be a genetic test. According to my cardiologist just catching the flu or covid can have sometimes permanent enlargement just from the virus. I've never taken the clot shot, it's also standard to test for HIV, luckily I was negative and that was ruled out. Heart disease is the number one killer in this country and yes I completely agree with you you just never know
Nebivolol for the win was running telma,neb and cialis swapped just too Nebivolol and Cialis resting heart rate dropped 20 points while on 80mcg clen shit is where it’s at blood pressure was always good just my resting would get high but never actually affected me I can’t get over like 130 heart rate either tryna push the cardio bike hard af lol!
I treat it with 5mg Nebivolol and 40mg telmisartan.
Sounds great. Depending on the situation, I switch between one or another.
Do you feel any lethargic taking both at the same time?
Asking that, because once I did, and it didn't feel great, seems to have some impact even during my training time. Well, I use on a regular basis 5 mg of Cialis, so... maybe the whole combo was to much for me...
Neb keeps my heart rate down yes, but I'd rather have it like that.
When I went to see the Doctor over the past few weeks with my lovely Bronchitis he asked me what meds I was on and dose, I said that some days I take 5mg Bisoprolol and others 2.5mg (prescribed dose) and he said to try and keep it at 2.5mg per day as cardio selective beta blockers that act on the heart (same as nebivolol) actually lower your lung power considerably and breathing ability. So basically if you are taking a bit too much it can negatively affect training in terms of breathing and not just limiting your peak heart rate like they already do.
@anvil feels like yesterday I asked you the same questions.
@Pandateston I have noticed the lethargy with the Nebivolol added. was impossible for me to get heart rate to 130bpm. i use the telmisartan 40mg daily & Cialis 10mg. my heart rate is still higher on cycle but, I feel fine and BP is fair. that combo with a 1050mg weekly cocktail my BP was 130/80-84 at 20weeks when I completed. I had bailed cycles previously bc BP was very high and I wasnt managing it.
Yes, I went through the same situation. But my first choice has always been Nebivolol, because it doesn't seem to interact with the potential inhibition of protein synthesis, as it doesn't bind to the PPAR-Y Gamma receptor. It seems that, because it is specific to the β1 receptors, it seemed more pleasant to me, and what I also noticed was that my BP was under control, without any spikes, but fat burning and calorie expenditure are the same. With Telmisartan, I feel that it causes more interference... I started using it after I felt really sick while using Clenbuterol. It ended up helping me in all other aspects. I prefer it to Terlmisartan, but both work well for me. Either one or the other, I can't combine them. It's a pain in the ass to have to stop Blast because of complications that are out of control, like heart rate. It's really a serious, but I've been through it, and I think stopping the whole thing is the smartest way out.
I have always normally been fine with 5mg cialis + OTC supps ED. I had to get on Clonidine for a few months while getting clean from opioids as my BP rebounded like crazy. Had fentanyl analogues in my system for 37 days before I was fully clean, and had to stay on it for the continued PAWs afterwards.
Although my last couple cycles my blood pressure & HR have gotten higher than I would like and that’s made me begin to explore my options.
What do y’all prefer? (Would love to hear from all of y’all!) @anvil @Triggerman83 @Pandateston
Do you take and see these as lifelong medications or as needed? If the latter, do ya taper off after being on for a sustained amount of time or cycle?
5mg ED Cialisis works great for me, what is OTC supps?
Over the counter- beet root, grape seed extract, Hawthorne, garlic powder, CoQ10, etc.
I believe they are necessary if you need to control your heart rate as a last resort. Often times, lowering the dose or changing the drug would help. But, like that, that's not always what we do. I see these medications as solutions for any cycle that makes the person uncomfortable. The biggest problem is that many people try to protect the liver (it's important, but it repairs itself) and forget about the kidneys, and even more so the heart. There's just one detail: blood stress (like high hematocrit) and cardiac stress, like a high heart rate for a long time, cause damage to the target organ, which triggers kidney damage. And it's screwed up the kidneys, it's screwed up everything. Because the heart adapts in many ways, even with insufficiency, or other types of problems, it always tries to use the law of compensation, but kidney failure is the end.
So I see these medications as protectors that are often underestimated, BUT, I don't use them constantly, only during a blast in most cases or during a severe cutting, because of the stimulants. Mainly because I'm not a bodybuilder, just a sports enthusiast. If I were, I would probably stick to a fixed stack.
The only thing I take continuously as a cardioprotector is Cialis in a therapeutic dose of 5 mg, recommended by my cardiologist, who also likes PEDS
I can admit to not trying Nebivol alone , only combined . this brings me to want to read up more on the science points you make. I have naturally high HCT and RBC. had always been towards the upper end of reference ranges through my life, natural. I end up just out of reference range when blasting/cycling. my Doc know I use PED now. I asked about the HCT and RBC & we reviewed historical labs , he agreed compared to "my normal" it wasnt elevated much. again this is why I am interested in researching more.
It's worth doing your own research, and maybe in the near future, using it alone to see how you feel. There's a nerd on YouTube called VigorousSteve; he has a video with some coherent scientific studies on beta blockers. Regarding PEDs: HC and RBC, all anabolics will raise these markers, but since you have a tendency,. I would personally stay away from boldenone and oxymetholone, especially. Or, if you are going to use them, always be very cautious, or spend a few extra dollars to do therapeutic bleeding if it's really necessary. Good thing your doctor knows and told you that there were no major changes.
I love vigorous Steve! listen often.
that PWO injectable Adrol is fire though! lol
I by no means "know", but this is what seems to work well for me. TRT dose = I typically am only on 5mg Cialis. my BP & heart rate are Never as high with TEST only / TRT (800-900 total test). when I cycle up my heart rate increase which is when / why I have noticed BP spikes, previously I would just hold to see if bp levels out , or backoff dose. As I was bumping up this cycle; I planned and had the meds to treat the "acute symptoms" thanks @anvil! - I know the steroids are what is driving BP , so when I needed add the BP meds. originally I added the telmisartan 40mg and Nebivol 5mg together. After learning a bit more I realized I could pull the nebivol and still hold decent BP while getting heart rate up. I am thankful I have the nebivol as a tool when needed . I have been off cycle for almost 2 weeks now and my heart rate is dropping daily and blood pressure is barely elevated at all now. I plan to pull the telmisartan & confirm "reset" , when back to TRT levels . to clarify my ramble - trt dose= 5Mg Cialis. when blasting or cycling compounds seems 10mg Cialis & 40mg Telmisartan seems to keep me fairly close to normal range / slightly elevated for duration of cycle.
yup it's a very good plan.
I just laughed as I realized I’m checking out the promos a lot of us are in lol
SoS and I are promo free!
Fuckin Gay Boys
I have masteron and winstrol coming, I’m excited. And those little brown cialis we all know and love…
I prefer adjusting dosages before throwing more drugs at it. I’ll get hate for this, but the body gets used to beta blockers. If you’re a recreational steroid user, not earning a living through competition or photo shoots, your physique being your money maker, taking anti-arrhythmic drugs to manipulate your heart rhythms is insane. That’s just my two cents. What happens if you stop and now you have an irregular heartbeat that was self inflicted and now a beta blocker is needed? For the rest of your life?
Exactly ^^ beta blockers + arb's both state in the literature that stopping the meds can run the risk of developing heart failure. So going on and off them continuously is very risky imo. I'm in heart failure so I've done some research here. Mine is most likely due to turning a blind eye to hypertension as well as hct for a long time along with sleep apnea (untreated)
If I were to go back in time, I would have started a low dose ARB. Or "sartan". That's the only prescription that I know of which will actually lower your HCT overtime and keep it in normal ranges. Along with proper hydration* of course. Before that I tried grapefruit extract and nattokinase, but they only made a slight difference. So 6 months of low dose Losartan brought my 58 hct to a 50 hct. This was during a cruise so the test dose stayed the same. I then knocked off a few more points by starting a sleep apnea treatment (CPAP) now I'm in normal range. Possibly too much GH usage is what brought about the apnea. Not sure. Others say the same.
We also have deficiencies and magnesium is one of the most common. The taurate and orotate are the best forms to help the ticker. Other deficiencies which can damage the heart are vitamin B1, and vitamin C. We don't produce our own vitamin C and there was a biochemist named Linus Pauling who came up with a protocol which calls for high doses of vitamin C and lysine. This was to keep LPA levels from rising too high and damaging the heart through stress cracks. He found that it can prevent and or reverse certain heart disease. But of course he was buried by the pharmaceutical industry on this. The pauling protocol is widely used today with great success. Personally I take 3 g per day Vit C or 1 g every 8 hours. I use proline 1g instead of lysine as it has been proven to be more effective in lowering LPA. My levels were very high and I demanded my cardiologist check my levels, he was hesitant but also impressed but lo and behold. The pharmaceutical industry or doctors do not want you to treat the root cause, obviously they would rather push med$.
A decade of cycling on and off with hypertension and pushing ketchup for blood, isn't good. Pair that with some deficiencies and boom. HF
Omegas and antioxidants are super important for the ticker. CoQ10+ PQQ equally so. After getting things into order with labs, I have found two good supplements out of the money that I have tried which control blood pressure and heart rate pretty decently. Himalaya Arjuna morning and night. Takes a month to kick in. Also French Maritime pine bark or pycnogenol is great for circulation and dissolving arterial plaques. I use life extension arterial protect. Bp goes down one hour after taking it. I'd like to use the pure encapsulations brand but it's $157 a bottle on Amazon lol. Crazy. Anywho there's a lot that goes into protecting the heart, if and when I cycle again I will most certainly be using bpc-157 along with the cycle. Probably the best form of a cardio protector out there according to studies. One thing I do know is that when your ticker gets weak your quality of life goes to hell in a handbasket pretty quickly. I'm finally bouncing back after a year of treating my conditions. No fun. Sorry for the long reply. I think your post is very accurate and would not ever advise anybody to go on and off heart medications. The Cialis is a great tool along with proper hydration, minerals + vitamins. Or simply lowering the dose of PEDs or avoiding certain ones when vitals get out of whack. I like a gear but I also like my future health status even more. Recently my cardio stamina has been excellent, 50-60 bpm at rest. 70-80 moving around. Intense cardio I don't really peek over 120. Usually stays around a hundred. I found that the use of lumbrakinase is far superior to nattokinase. Just not alone keeps my BP 110/70 in general. Keeping them circulatory pipes clean as well as some nitric oxide boost, love citrulline. For a while I used beets but they are very high in oxalates which can lead to kidney stones. I also replaced the sugar I put in my coffee with 5 g d-ribose. Mildly sweet but absolutely great for energy and heart health. The best thing anybody can do bodybuilding or not is begin CoQ10 around age 35. As you don't want to be 45 and facing heart failure. Protect that ticker!!
THANK YOU! really appreciate the time taken with your post. My belief is my hct being high from wearing a respirator daily for work. It was something that I was informed of and always used as a “reason/excuse”. Definitely gave me a lot to look into, thanks again.
Thanks for sharing that ! Lots of things to take into consideration here !
Mate this is a Brilliant response and Very helpful, I did not know all of this when I responded up at the top to your comment. I did know from our PM's you were going through some heart problems but did not realise the full extent of everything.
I think it would be great to have a Stickies forum full of really helpful and informative comments, not just one for great forum posts. This should definitely be included in there if it is something that is possible.
@BFG
Damn bro I’m sorry to hear of your condition. Thank you for taking the time to write this, hopefully others read this and pay attention. I recently started the cpap again. Compared to the old readings it’s actually gotten better, but my snoring had gotten worse. As we age proper vitamin and mineral supplements are so important. Thanks again man.
That was exactly the answer I gave to @smurfdude1234567 You're not wrong. I mean, I agree with that in part. Everyone does exactly what they want. I believe that using a beta blocker is better than having heart damage in the medium to long term. But yes, without a doubt, many times, changing the drug or reducing the dose would make the use of these medications unnecessary.
In my opinion, you can't stop using it, you need to wean off the use, slowly, without rushing. If you do that, your system will readapt. I do it like this: I reduce the dose by half, then by a quarter, then by an eighth, then one day on and one day off, until I gradually remove it, without rushing. The beta blocker doesn't change your heart, it leaves your heart in the state it should be in, even if you are under the influence of stimulants.
But I know people who cold turkey it and nothing happens. I mean, I'm cautious, scared, take it however you want. lol
That’s why I was curious- most people I see get these scripts filled are on them for life, but then again the majority of average users are not PED users.
I see both sides 100%.
we need to be honest with ourselves and how our bodies are responding. I did the lowering dose trick up until recently when I chose to treat the symptoms. I was a caffeine jumkie for years , when hustling around the shop im 97-100bpm on my feet. with the beta blocker I was 70-72bpm (yawning and sluggish feeling) & , training most I could get was 119bpm. I pulled the Nebivol and rolled with telmisartan. definitely a good tool to know and have. my mindset is nothing is really good for us, especially with long term use. I don't look at cycling the BP drugs any different then cycling steroids.
That’s crazy it lowered your HR that much. My RHR goes from 59 to like 55. But the nebivolol + telmisartan combo works wonders on my blood pressure. I’ve never had crazy high BP even when I ran DHB without BP meds, I’d get to like 145/85. Some might say that’s not really elevated enough to treat with meds, but now on cycle I just toss in the neb + tel at 5mg and 40mg respectively and never go above 130 systolic.
Goes to show all drugs are person specific not just AAS. What works for me for BP is not a one size fits all
it probably would have been better for me to run the combo after seeing your stellar RHR! lol maybe it all the previous party drugs, but seems I like the high rate more than the low! the DHB had my resting to 70...
You should know by now mate that SoS is a Machine, he is not human but a genetically engineered specimen of a man. I got some Nevibolol 5's only a few days ago, I normally use Bisoprolol which I get free on UK script but they won't give me more than the 2.5mg tabs so I end up running out a month early every time. So I took matters into my own hands and decided to call the A-Team.