pathtaker's picture
pathtaker
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+ 26 Head-to-Head VIPS vs. RIPS Comparison - IGF-1 LabCorp results after 1 month on each

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Test Protocol:

For this test, I used 1 ml Hydroxocobalamin (from Germany) to reconstitute the 10 IU vials of HGH. Hydroxocobalamin is a bio-identical form of injectable vitamin b-12. The concentration used was 500 mcg b-12 per ml.

I ran RIPS at 4 IU/day in divided doses (2 IU at bedtime & 2 IU upon waking) on a 6 days/week schedule (skipping the Sunday night/Monday morning injections) for a 1 month duration. I tested my IGF-1 serum level with the blood draw on Monday morning between 8:00 and 9:00 AM. This day was chosen because it was during the day off from injections and should be the most stable and lowest reading of the week.

I then switched to VIPS for another month at the same dosage and schedule. I again tested my IGF-1 serum level on Monday morning between 8:00 and 9:00 AM in the same manner and at the same lab.

Results:

My IGF-1 level after 1 month on the RIPS was 362 ng/mL and after 1 month on the VIPS dropped to 315 ng/mL.

Interpretation:

While there is a small margin of error based on possibly fluctuating IGF-1 levels, the indication of this test is that there may be a 15% better response to using RIPS versus VIPS. However, considering the fact that VIPS are priced more than 15% below the price of RIPS, VIPS win hands down in this comparison when considering bang for the buck. Even though it may be necessary to increase my VIP dosage from 4 IU/day to about 4.6 IU/day to achieve the equivalent IGF-1 level achieved on RIPS, the cost of treatment per month would still be significantly less.

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macklroy3's picture

I've never ran tests on your VIPs but I ordered 200 ius a few months back and I love them. Started at 2iu five days a week, starting losing bf. Then jumped up to 3iu five days a week about a month later. Starting to get nice lean gains and stronger than I've ever been. Bf is way down and my diet is only about 70% on.
Also running test prop and npp at 200mg x three days weekly.
Great stuff G, will actually be ordering more very soon bro.

IntelligentElegance's picture

This is the type of stuff I like to see from a source.... I got shamed with that whole Performance Formulations bullcrap with their GH.... 750ius in the trash... Awesome!

Gonna need to get new GH.... I think I know were ill be going.

pathtaker's picture

It may have something to do with the exact sequence. There are some small differences that could account for different effects and that would be independent of purity.

TechniQue1's picture

nice test brother

pathtaker's picture

Hey GG, My pleasure... Thanks for the great products and service - Muchly appreciated!

pathtaker's picture

Many thanks to all of you for the Karma and kind words... Especially the kind words!

Hate to think where we would be without eroids, huh?

MegaT883's picture

As always Pathtaker nice explanation +1

BBB's picture

I'll stick with Pharma grade.

Nice test tho. +1

pathtaker's picture

Sure... Rub it in! lol

killroy's picture

Nice Work Pal! +1 Both the VIPs & Rips impressively boosted your IGF levels considering your age. If I'm not mistaken... levels around 350ng/ml +/- are at the high end of target levels for a typical anti-aging protocol. Looks like you damn near hit the bulls eye.

Do you mind telling us your baseline prior to HGH use?

I also cannot wait to see your results with the Hyges!

Well done.

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pathtaker's picture

Thanks! My baseline IGF-1 was 123 ng/mL. The baseline lab, an interim, and final lab are posted in this discussion: http://www.eroids.com/og/anti-aging/an-example-of-extrapolating-hgh-targ...

You can see my Recommended Lab References here: http://www.eroids.com/og/anti-aging/optimal-blood-test-reference-range-c...

On the RIPS, I got 60 ng/mL increase per 1 IU/day on the same 6 days/week protocol. My wife got closer to 75 ng/mL increase per IU. She is just a baby though (54)!

killroy's picture

Wow. Excellent write ups and references. Much appreciated!!

Are any of your peers using pharma grade? Have they reported similar IGF increases at comparable doses? We have yet to have a head to head showdown.

Albeit the mg vs mg per international unit and gh sequence (slightly) may differ when comparing Rips to something like Norditropin, I am still very interested to see what the body's response is in terms of IGF secretion when comparing the two.

I see folks spreading the gospel of Pharma grade and I appreciate their stance. Considering the obvious factors: higher purity, tighter controls, assurance since its made by big pharma... something I agree with 100%.

But I still remain skeptical when allegations are made that the chinese are using peptides mimicking GH response/IGF , Anti-diuretics, and other unknown elements to produce the sides of real HGH... Sometimes to the point of hysterics Eroids is not the first place that these claims have been made, its not some new found "revelation"... Through the years I've seen others make these same clains, on other boards notably from certifiable nuts like GH15 and Marcus300. But never has anyone provided ANY proof. When the MSA shows real HGH, claims are made its inactive, when blood results show real GH they again claim its inactive, when elevated IGF levels are presented they claim its peptides and/or some magical concoction made by the chinese (real gh/petide combo). When sides are cited, they claim anti-diuretics, preservatives, etc etc... Refusing any real data presenting to them and rebutting with something they most likely pulled out of their ass. While some of you refuse to believe MSAs and serums, I respectfully refuse to believe claims solely based on anecdotal data.. with all that said... I'm still looking to run some more pharma in the future. And I am not making a pitch for Chinese GH. But I'm kind of sick of the sheep around here.

Marcus300's favorite response is that he knows "someone" who work/worked in china and he got the inside scoop on what they put in chinese gh... yet to this day has never presented any proof. Well my cousin's brother's girlfriend works for riptropin and she told me everything is up to snuff, its real rDNA HGH... (sarcasm)

(sorry to hijack your post with my rant, i had to get this off my chest)

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pathtaker's picture

Not a problem killroy! i turn 65 in October and at my age rants are part of daily life! lol

Like you said, I don't like relying on anecdotal evidence and because I am very aware that each person reacts to HGH differently, I prefer to see lab results from ONE person under controlled conditions before I will trust comparisons of different products. I would LOVE to splurge and buy a 100 IU kit of pharma and put it through the same protocol to finally get that head-to-head comparison but I am retired, on a fixed income, doing all pro bono anti-aging coaching and simply can't afford the cost of pharma HGH - Not to mention the cost of all the tests.

Bro-science scares the crap out of me! You can find a post backing up just about any kind of screwball idea. There seems to be an unexamined presupposition that if it is written, it must be true! In fact the word "authority" comes from "author"... So, if someone writes something, they automatically become an authority whether they know what they are talking about or not!

At least eroids puts it all together for us as a clearinghouse of information... We still have to be discerning about what we read.

Told you about rants! lol

Thanks for all your comments.

pathtaker's picture

Thanks MONSTAR! It's a LOT better than the alternative! :-)

Gorillafit's picture

X2!!!

Pepwarehouse's picture

nice experiment! +1

Pale's picture

+1, excellent post!

pathtaker's picture

Awesome! I am chomping at the bit to see a head-to-head between pharma and a known like RIPS, VIPS, or HYGES. Please be sure to give me a heads-up when you post the results!

One suggestion... Consider the test dosage carefully, don't start with a level that might be too high for the pharm phase of the test even though pharm sides are not as likely to be a problem.

pathtaker's picture

Sounds like a solid plan. When do you think you will start?

pathtaker's picture

Looking forward to your posts!

2500hd's picture

+1 very nice

Exgearslinger's picture

Great job. Plus one.

youngtricep98's picture

Here's a study I found that might help pinpoint the correct time to test igf levels.

http://www.eroids.com/forum/hgh-peptides/rhgh/a-lot-of-debate-regarding-...

+1 by the way.

pathtaker's picture

Thanks for posting the study link.

The study does a good job of pinpointing the best time to test serum HGH levels after a single sub-cutaneous injection. However, its implications for IGF-1 are another matter. Although they did not show the data, they mentioned in their description of the study that the IGF-1 level was still increasing at 36 hours. The length of the study was too short to ascertain when the IGF-1 would reach homeostasis. Optimal testing of IGF-1 was beyond the scope of this study.

I chose the 1 month time frame of my protocol based on experience and recommendations from some of the pioneering docs in the field of HGH therapy. Most of the literature recommends 1 month since a stable IGF-1 level is likely to be reached in about 3 weeks or a little less. I have seen IGF-1 serum levels still increasing at the 2 week point but have not seen any further change at 1 month or beyond.

Cheatnnature's picture

Very nicely done sir! Now I wonder what 2iu of nor pens for a month would do to igf-1? To see if actually going on small amounts of pharm is worth it.

pathtaker's picture

Excellent question! And some day I may have enough money to give that a try. But, for now, I just switched to HYGES and am repeating this test! Stay tuned!

My experience with clients (I'm an anti-aging coach - retired) on pharm HGH is that a much lower dose is required but my gut feeling (having done no head-to-head tests on pharma), is that half as much might be in the ballpark. Still, pharma is MUCH more than double these underground prices. The only benefit I could imagine would be a reduction in sides and maybe a lower risk of contamination of some sort.

Cheatnnature's picture

Ya I would looove to run not pens at 3iu a day but as you stated much much too expensive! That would be 700$ a month unless I bought a huge bulk order lol. But I hear there is no comparison. Hyges are killer atleast the green tops I used. +1 for good post.

pathtaker's picture

I figured now would be the perfect time to run HYGES in the same protocol since any delay would only introduce more variables (age etc). Should have the results around the middle of September. I would be happy to test pharm HGH if someone would send me a 100 IU kit! ;-)

Never hurts to dream!

pathtaker's picture

Thanks! I had the same feeling that I needed to increase the dosage when I switched from RIPS to VIPS. I think it is amazing that we can be so in-tune with our bodies that we can sense these variances. Thanks for sharing your experience. This is what eroids is all about!

2500hd's picture

So can you tell a difference in the hyges yet?

pathtaker's picture

Today will be one week so it is a bit early but I suspect they are showing less sides than I was getting on the VIPS. Nothing concrete - just a slight impression.

pathtaker's picture

Thanks, beyond! I agree more tests and taking an average would improve accuracy but I have done a lot of IGF-1 tests following this protocol and have not seen much of a fluctuation while on the same product. In fact, I reached the 363 ng/mL level after extrapolating the target dose based on a previous series of IGF-1 tests and hit the target dead-on. Here is my post describing that procedure: http://www.eroids.com/og/anti-aging/an-example-of-extrapolating-hgh-targ...

I didn't mention this in my description above but I made a lot of efforts to keep external influences out of the picture. For instance, I made sure not to change my TRT dosage, exercise level, or diet, etc. during the duration of the test.

JASON_C's picture

Thanks for testing and sharing. +1

FinMan's picture

Thank you Pathtaker! And plus 1