TRT
So as I'm sure most of my TRT brothers already know, there are a multitude of reasons why you began TRT. For me personally I was diagnosed Hypogonadism shortly after a traumatic spinal injury. I had a rupture of two discs in my cervical spine. At the time I was exhibiting zero symptoms of low T. I had no issues with muscle mass, lack of hair on my body, lack of libido, sexual dysfunction nor was I aware of any inability to maintain focus. Probably the only side now that I look back was some fits with my mood. I'd get very angry very easily.
After a total male hormone panel was drawn I had a total test serum of 250+. For a 28 yr old that is very low. So my Doctor put me on a script of Watson Test Cyp @ 200mg every 2 weeks. I felt it immediately. The whole "it's placebo" stuff is sometimes true but for anyone with low T they'll tell you WE FEEL THAT SHIT IMMEDIATELY!!!! My focus was almost over night enhanced. I was feeling engaged in my life again. Soon to come was intense spikes in Libido and Sexual performance. WOW! Nuff said! In the coming days and weeks each new benefit from the Testosterone was a welcomed blessing in my life. I simply knew that what I was lacking before was now in abundance.
Here were a few things I wish I would have done prior to these benefits of TRT:
1) Diet- I wish I would have had a diet planned for my TRT and a balanced macro ratio
2) Blood Pressure support. First negative thing that happened after TRT was a spike in my BP
3) Pinning schedule. I was in control of my injections and I wish I would have studied half-lives and known to inject 2x weekly rather than pinning every two weeks. .25cc/50mg 2x a week is much better than 1cc/200mg every other week. Split it up if you have the vials and control your TRT injections.
4) Have a open and heart felt conversation with my wife. I wasn't prepared for the spike in my aggression, confidence nor my libido. Mix all three of those things and that can be a recipe for Divorcee. Make sure if you are in a committed relationship that you have an open dialogue with your better half. Prepare yourselves for these things to happen. You will learn to control them but it does not happen immediately.
So that's my story of TRT let's hear your stories or experiences or questions regarding TRT.
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http://www.eroids.com/pics/my-labs-on-trt I know when I take HCG I just feel better and my libido goes up. There are my labs from a TRT standpoint. I never would have imagined poking a needle into myself but the difference pre TRT till now is HUGE. and my wife LOVES it. She knows what I am doing and I explain the blood tests. Heck she said just go get them on my own LOL. BTW we have been together 27 years. Oh my Test level was 171 pre TRT
I just stumbled upon this thread CD and you hit every great point well, i had known after a long time of cycling that i wasnt bouuncing back as well anymore and my last bloods after pct were 180 total test, i was blown away, i had all the low t symptoms, strangely it was my wonderful woman who pushed for me to go on TRT, she saw all the positives of my emotional well being and health while on and really didnt like the person i was with low T so i went to an endocrinologist and now im on TRT, my insurance doesnt cover the shots, he follows me and does my bloods and such and is aware i get my AAS "else where" and is fine with it. he keeps it all hush hush and thinks im doing great, and sees a wonderful improvement overall. thanks for such an enlightening thread.
AnonGlad to have you here HomeSlice! Please feel free to share and create threads of your own. You have an amazing journey that everyone needs to know. When you get time, if you wouldn't mind, please share your story.
me and the wife both will. there is a place for AAS use outside of the norm. some dont even realize the diverse uses outside of body building. the benefits to health, healing and general wellness. we will do our best to touch on these points. bring in something new for others that is often overlooked or misunderstood.
I'm starting get up "there", so I'm looking into TRT/HRT for down the road...do not feel like it of course. What are your thoughts re: HCG usage for TRT? Do you have a preferred protocol or an interval for usage?
AnonHonestly HCG for typical LH reboot if you are hypogonadism is a waste. There are other purposes where HCG would be beneficial IMO. In cases of boosting sperm volume. Also aesthetics come into play. Hcg will plump the boys up some. If you're experiencing atrophy that can be bothersome for some men.
Aside from that the true benefits of hcg aren't going to serve folks on TRT well. That's just based on my own personal opinion and experience using hcg. I've tried doing multiple PCTs after being diagnosed with low t. I'm actually using hcg as we speak to try and spine some sperm production for fertility reasons. As far as dosages go that truly depends IMO on the scenario and desired result.
Appreciate CD for the feedback...I'm more interested in fertility. Based on your experience...have you found HCG to be effective for sperm production or not enough data just yet?
AnonWell I've noticed a few things. Keep in mind I have not taken a sperm analysis to validate my thoughts. The things I've noticed since running hcg which I'm currently using have been thicker semen, Whiter semen and my boys have been very very plump. Before my semen was clearer and thinner. I've been running a Dr Scally pct after speaking with Muta. Dr Scally is a renowned endo amongst other credentials. His program can be found with any google search using his name. I've been taking 2000iu eod for the last two weeks. Well I'm taking two weeks off so technically this weeks I haven't been using hcg. I'm currently using clomid and Nolva and Aromasin as well to round out this fertility attempt.
OK...thx for the reference. It's an interesting PCt variation.
TRT started for me not long after i turned 26. Before, i felt like doing nothing, no energy, bad mood all the time, no libido whatsoever. It got so bad that it was extremely close to ending my marriage. I went to the dr and it ended up that my test level was 347....i guess i should backtrack a bit to let you know how i got to that point. I always partied pretty hard and pushed the limits but it caught up with me. I would do almost anything but my drugs of choice where anything that made me go fast, amphetamines and blow. If anyone has been down that road you know you go thru a cycle of binge on drugs, then binge on food to recover finally, then repeat. over and over and over again. It wasnt so bad when I was at college..i still managed to keep my grades up and was a D1 athlete in soccer and then rugby. After i left school and a year or two past it caught up with me quick. I stopped partying but kept eating and ballooned up quickly, i ended up tipping the scale at over 240lbs with approx 40%bf. So fast forward He went to put me on a trt regimen...after a long battle with my insurance they considered it a "non-necessary medical procedure" I was quite lost for a while after that not knowing what to do so i started reading medical journal after medical journal and eventually found my way here. Thankfully ive been able to learn a great deal and find sources that I am able to afford to take care of my own trt. Once i started it was like I got my life back, energy, drive, focus, libido and competitive nature. Now Im back in the best shape of my life and working on adding some off season mass for another bb comp
AnonGlad to see you post. There's a multitude of reasons why we end up on TRT. Would you speak on if you run an AI and which one and what dose while running a TRT dose. Obviously everyone's body aromatize a at different dosages and speeds. But it would be nice to have some reference points for others. Thank u
Well I do run an ai but at very small amounts. .25mg adex 2 x week. My trt dose is no longer a standard trt due to bb...it is 250mg test e a week. If it was standard trt dose I would not run an ai
You guys may think I'm dumb for this but here is my story.
When I was 21 I was in a bad car accident. Stopped at a red light. 18 wheeler blew the light on the oncoming traffic. He lost control swerving to avoid a car going through a green light at a 4-way intersection. Truck went on it's side, landed on the hood of my car. We all walked away fine. Adrenaline carried me through the day. Little did I know that was a precursor to back problems for the rest of my life. So, over the years I learned where and how to get pain killers when I needed them. Most times with docs but sometimes not. Fast forward past a back surgery and years of neglecting my body....
My mother passed away almost 7 years ago unexpected. That completely ripped my world, torn me down and fucked me up bad. I was very close to my mother. So, I turned to opiates. Lots and lots of them. I became so physically dependent on them, I hid the use from EVERYONE. Not even my wife knew. I carried on this way for 3 or so years. I finally got to a point where I realized I needed help. So, I found a doctor and got on suboxone. I stayed on that for a couple years. The birth of my daughter made me realize I want to get off suboxone and take control of my health. By this time, I was 220 all fat (not good for a 5'-10" male with back problems). I was always in pain. Anyway, I got off the suboxone and have been off for just about 3 years.
Why is this relevant you ask? Well, I have NEVER been the same person. I was diagnosed with depression but after I finally accepted and faced the grief of losing my mother, I always wondered if I was truly depressed. I just took the doctors word for it. Never even heard of Low T. Once my daughter was born, I started hitting the gym to get fit. I started finding myself enjoying it, feeling so much better back pain wise, mentally and physically. I still however dealt with constant tiredness. Falling asleep mid-day at work. Falling asleep driving home. I had no energy from 1pm on. It got worse as the day progressed. Fast forward to my first cycle....
Holy shit! I felt like a new man. It was rediculous how good I felt. It was like Magic. I found what I had been missing. I felt so damn good I dropped my anti-depressant dose by half (I did this slowly throughout the cycle) and I felt great. Fast forward to PCT.
CRASH!!!!! I was an absolute wreck. First week was ok. Second week started the downfall. I finally realized I had to go back to my normal anti-depressant dose, so I did. I started to feel better. Better as in the crappy way I felt before the cycle. A couple months went by, decided to see a doctor and have my levels checked. My total test was 423. Doc said it was normal but normal for who. I'm 37. Maybe I need more test than that. So after a lot of research, and realizing most doctors treat a number and not symptoms I decided to give TRT a try on my own. I honestly haven't even started it yet because I'm running a cycle first but even just starting the cycle, I had see an incredible difference and I feel great again. Energy, libido, erections are solid, well being is great. Only time will tell if TRT is the answer for me but I'm willing to take that chance to feel good. I truly believe opiates destroyed the person I was.
So, am I dumb for doing this on my own? Probably. Will I be dumb about how I do it? No chance. I will run regular labs, I will keep AI and HCG on hand at all times. A day will come when I will deal with a doctor. I do know there are many that self medicate. I did so much research I am confident in my ability. Sadly, from what I see, there are many docs that don't have a clue on how to administer.
AnonWell first let me say I don't ever recommend anyone self diagnose. We are all not equally as intelligent and inquisitive. Some folks just throw drugs at the problems. But, who the fuck am I to tell you not to want to feel better. Trust me when we fall flat from low t it is absolutely horrible. Everything is dulled and subdued. Life loses its shine and glow. I don't judge you nor would I ever think you are stupid for doing what you did. It obviously has improved your quality of life.
I do however think should anyone else find themselves in this situation to at least consult a physician regarding their symptoms. Even without insurance it's only 100$+ for a Dr visit. Take some labs into the appointment for reference. Gauge the physicians opinion first before making a decision. Also consult with love ones in particular your spouse or significant other. It truly is a life changing event and IMO all things in my life are best when I share them with my woman. She's my best friend and I value her opinions more than my own at times. Thank you for posting your experience.
I agree with you. I actually did visit a coupke docs. My primary said I had high levels. My endo said I have normal levels. They both say depression. I told them everything about my opiate use and my antidepressants and my primary said I need to increase my dose (no fucking way) annd my endo says it could be either but can't treat normal levels.
I also told my psychiatrist who perscrprescribes the antidepressants. I told her the truth how I used testosterone and I felt like a different person. She said I'm not the first person who said this and there is a real problem in the medical care field where doctors treat symptoms when they become a real problem and not treating them before they become a real problem. The mentality of "you're going to have a heart attack in 3 years. Come back in 2 years 11 months we will stop it then"
Next step is to ask my psychiatrist if she can recommend to an endo I be treated. Ultimately I do plan on getting with the doctor. It's just going to take some time and honestly right now I want to run a cycle so I will revisit the doc after the cycle. I have a big vacation planned so after that I'll settle in. Don't want to be dialing in with a doc and feeling like shit on vacation.
Thanks for not judging. I'm embarrassed of it in a way but in the end, I'd rather feel good and enjoy life than worry about what tomorrow brings feeling like shit. Losing my mom so early I realized life is to short to suffer every day
Thanks for a great thread. I began trt 6 or 7 years ago after an extended bout of tiredness and depression (both of which are out of character for me). My doctor ordered bloodwork and my test level was at 140...at age 43. He immediately started me on Androgel and within two weeks I was back to normal. I have cut over to Testim and it's worked well until just recently. My test levels shot up from 650 to 1200, and concurrently estradiol went up to just over 100. We have cut back a bit and introduced arimidex, and things seem to be normal again. (And when that happened it was accompanied by elevated BP, as also happens on cycle. I keep Lisinopril on hand especially while on cycle.)
I am going to run a 14 week test E/EQ cycle in December and after that we are going to cut over to a Test Cyp protocol. He is cool with me pinning myself so I can do a 2x week injection.
Interestingly, he asked me if I wanted to try to "go through a medically induced cycle to try to stimulate natural production" (read: PCT) and I declined...although it would be interesting to see what that might be like.
AnonI never used the gel. Went straight for the injectable. Can u comment on the differences for others who might be debating on what avenue to go?
Sure, as I said I have experience with Androgel and Testim and used the individual packets/tubes.
Androgel comes in little foil packets, that are easy to open and travel well. It is fragrance-free and dries quickly...like 30-60 seconds. The downside is that it contains a high level of alcohol and will bleach your shirt if you are not careful and drip it onto the fabric, or put a shirt on before it is dried.
Testim is packaged in foil tubes and has a distinctive fragrance. (I have had people compliment me on my cologne). It takes longer to dry, as it has less alcohol. It won't damage clothing.
Both are 50mg testosterone, but obviously because they are transdermal, your actual absorption rate will vary and you'll need to get a few lab tests done to determine steady levels for you.
Gels are not recommended for people with high body fat because the adipose fat blocks absorption into the system.
Gels are easy to use, and easy to travel with. If you fly a lot, there's no reason to bring gear, syringes etc which may create issues at Security, Customs etc. You DO need to apply daily--rather than pinning less regularly, but the upside of this is that your test levels remain very consistent.
They are not cheap however. Pharmacy charge is $360 for a 30 day supply using 1 packet a day. Many people use two a day. Both companies have co-pay assistance cards, so in my case, I get 60 packets a month with zero out of pocket. I cannot understand why the insurance companies are not pushing test cyp, which would be much cheaper.
One caveat: I don't recommend gels if your applied areas are likely to come in contact with women or little children within two hours of application. Technically, some of the test could transfer to them. If this is your situation, I would definitely go injectable.
AnonThank you for your contributions brotha
My story with TRT began with me at 41 noticing a fatigue in the early afternoons. This occurred daily it was not isolated and it continued to increase. For most people they may not have thought much of it but for me it was disturbing to say the lease.
I am a operator in the most elite special forces unit known to the world so top condition is a job requirement without exception. In my my I have competed in triathlons, professional Thai boxing bouts, as well as be an avid mountain climber. I have never smoked and my alcohol consumption has been socially and very seldom. My only addiction has been competition. So for me it was like losing the essence of who I was. Granted that sounds and maybe is dramatic but to each is their own way of life.
So my commanding officer who was on TRT was talking to me one day and told me I should go and have my testosterone and estrogen levels tested. After I poked some non rude fun at him I did this because I trust this man with my life so when he suggest something it is very easy to listen. So I did and my test levels can back in the low 600s. My estrogen was in the 300s. Now with TRT the AMA the normal levels can be anywhere from 230s to 1500s for a man. Now like my endo said who is a great understanding doctor to what I do for work said; "The problem is that is a hell of a range difference!" Meaning some men may be more than great in the 600s but for others who have high physical and metal impact jobs like mine it can be unacceptable.
So to make this shorter he put me on the typical Watson protocol with Arimidex to bring down my estrogen levels. Within six weeks it felt like I was 30 again the difference cannot even be measure it was that significant. Then of course I researched on my own hormones and imbalances as if it was the key to men for life and it is imo. I can across many sites online not to mention all of the university studies I read. Than I found Eroids and consumed information daily decided to run other cycles which have imo been a success. I have learned a ton here from the brothers and sisters here and I could go on forever but I won't. So that is my story in a nut shell.
AnonWow brudda did you ever find out why your estrogen was so high?
I just reread this I meant my estrogen was in the 100s lol not the 300s!
The doctor suggested a couple of things he was very thorough. One I was eating zantac like skittles which raises estrogen levels. Also I was eating a large amount of pasta do to the family I married into I am blessed with wonderful Italian cuisine. The white flour pasta is notorious for raising estrogen levels. Plus just the general aging and conversion rate of course. But he really believe the zantac was the prime antagonist.
Few weeks of arimidex down into the 20s plus I cut out all of the pasta. One of the hardest damn things to do for a pasta and grave addict lol
I would waste away and die without pasta...
Pasta is my true addiction! I love veal parm, chicken parm, lasagna, ziti !
So when you're in TRT mode do you run an ai and if so which one do you prefer? Some guys I talk to are able to get away with not using anything with a low dose of test and most of the other ones I've talked to prefer adex but what are your thoughts on aromasin while on TRT?
AnonI personally will try and run nothing. If I have some E2 sides I only run Aromasin. I run it exclusively. But for me a lot of what mentally I am gunning for with TRT is to unwind after a cycle. So the less compounds involved in my TRT the better. I know guys who have to run an AI during TRT. I'm lucky and can get away with not running an AI.
Yeah I was thinking about switching over to aromasin based on all the positive things I've heard but I got kinda scared off by people having bad reactions switching it up mid-cycle. Adex seems to do the trick for me but I'd like to see how I react to aromasin as well.