Why not just use Testosterone only in your first cycle and skip the dianabol?
Why do I ask this? Hey guys, Im 54, Im on my first cycle in 30 yrs. I come from simpler times. You either used deca durobolin,testosterone or dianabol (Anadrol was considered too dangerous even for most pro's) or..some combination of the 3. I myself used 2 variateions. 1st I tried deca durobolin and dianabol wihich allowed me to gain 5 pounds over 8 weeks and in the 9th week I just stopped cold as my gains also stopped cold! My second cycle was enanthate and deca. Better results but just a 9 pound gain over 12 weeks and I also, stopped cold. Doses were low. like 1cc of each injectable per week, preceded by a triple dose frontload.
Bottom line is I stayed smooth regardless which combo I used but became horny as hell from the deca.
My question is, based on the huge amount of trolling Ive done here, elite fitness, the UK sites, Iron Man, etc and etc...there seems to be a theme that nothing should replace testosterone, especialy in your first cycle. So I ask, if dbol and testosterone both will add muscle, retain water, can cause estrogen problems, increase the need for a AI, and it seems that anything dbol can do testosterone can do better, the only advantage dbol has is in jumpstarting your cycle, and even this Im not sure about as since I STARTED THIS FIRST CYCLE 9-10 WEEKS AGO WITH BOTH SUSTANON 500MG PER WEEK and 30mg dbol split 2x daily, why didnt I see any results at all until going into the 4th week?
This leads me to believe that one can bypass the liver stress and just do sustanon or enanthate and throw the dbol out. TRUE OR FALSE?
And would the answer be any different for a beginner on his first bulk cycle or an advanced BB?
I went from 170 to 180 at 5'9, on the small boned side after 6 weeks. Mostly water weight. No endurance or strength gains. So I stopped the dbol,added another 250 sustanon and gained 5 more pounds in like a week, came to a GRINDING HALT again, and took 2 weeks off training. Wasnt using any ai's as they didnt exist 30 yrs ago AND i NEVER GOT GYNO OR BAD SIDES. 3 days ago I added in proviron 25mg,1/2 pill daily, hoping lowering my estro will get some of that water out. My diet is I ear whatever I want as I eat clean to begin with. Cant ever get under 150gms of carbs but at this stage I doubt thats where all the water is coming from right?
So anyway, to save the newbies and old timers like me much confusion...why bother with dbol at all?
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you will notice if your dbol is real or fake very quickly. real dbol will make you feel great, strength gains, water weight, etc. i always get increased energy and enhanced moods on good dbol. anadrol is my favorite though. hands down one of the best mass builders out there.
i like the genshi brand. never had an issue.
AnonWell it sounds to me you have def been doing something wrong.....dosage needs to be up there and consistent from the jump brother....i question the legitimacy of the dbol u were using u should be able to gain like 3 lb a week on dbol alone with your test dosesd the same at the beginning to end.....again training and diet have to be on point and consistent. .....it is important as this is how you grow the aas just makes it more abundant growth......something had to be off somewhere is all i know......
Consistent dosing
Switching up routines and shocking muscles stimulates growth
A good clean diet with high protein uptake is important i didnt see you mention protein
Mon,very perceptive guy you are. True.... I didnt mention protein because when I was in my 20's, on my second cycle, I was shooting for 300 grams of protein any way I could get it as fish and skinless chicken made me puke. I always felt soooooo bloated when eating more than 180 gms of protein and gained no more than 11 pounds anyway, that I decided to just make sure I eat some protein at least 5x a day and my "instincts would take over the rest. I am for the first time adding in a whey protein shake with egg whites although never believed any supplement could replace food and was a waste of cash, Im giving it a shot. Im actually heavier now at about 150gms a day of protein(think 3 egg white omlettes and plenty of fish, either fresh or tuna from the can and thats 85% of my protein now. Its carbs at night I cant stay away from. And if I force myself to do it, I cannot sleep and I often miss the next nights workout because of the insomnia it causes. My brain really needs the carbs after diinner. I tried to use a whey protein drink with 5 strawberries to have a small amount of high quality low glycemic carbs in me at night but my body goes thru it like.............water. NG. Thank you!
Sounds like your dbol was bunk.
Wow, now my dbol was bunk also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really got bent over,then. I ordered dbol from thailand and sust from monrovia(we all know eastern europe has the most honest,cleanest labs in the world, right?) and also another batch from Turkey. getting bear by 3 different countries!!!!! iS THAT POSSIBLE?
Well, I guess that might mean I might have to give the review board listing on eroids a better look see. It seems the products with the little green muscle monster on it gets good reviews. My worry is other boards tell me not to listen to anyone from eroids administration or review boards because they are paid by the endorsers. But still, I cant believe they would make up tons of fake positive testimonials, right guys?............ Right? Whats that........I should try my local Walmart first? LOL
Dbol is GREAT for a kickstart etc , sounds like you got bunk dbol man , no worries tho! Eroids has the SRCs around lol
Your stength on dbol should rise really fast aswell , water weight etc but just browse around the site you'll find whatever you really need easily.
Thanks greedy. Thats exactly what I did. And I think Im going to go with the little green man. In Rome you do as the Romans do. Even if they are green. LOL. Plus I will drop the sust and add enanthate. Sounds to me that dbol fits you like a glove.
Happy training!
AnonThats all bullshit bro
Haters hate the great
You would be surprised by how many fakes there are these days.
I have no clue what brand you were using but I know both good and bad from each of those countries you mentioned.
All I am saying is you would LOVE dbol, and it sounds like you didn't have real dbol. Dianabol is a very impressive anabolic, it is powerful gives huge strength and size gains and is very quick acting. If you don't notice it by week 2 or 3 its bunk
I also use other steroid boards, and they usually try to keep people off eroids because then noone would use their shitty overpriced garbage sources. As you know, some sources PAY those boards money to advertise.
So if the people from those boards all came here, they sure as hell would never think twice about ordering from the shitty sub par gear advertised on those sites.
Also if you have a TRT prescription and your walmart has a pharmacy, then yes, get your testosterone from walmart... It will be better than pretty much anything you can get online
Thanks J,
I was using shen-gi and roid-plus brand.And Organon from turkey and i think thailand.(What a qvolt rush, ehhh?) What I notice about those 2 brands is they always, always seem to be sold on the same web sight together, the websight always claiming they are a re-seller. then I go to the pharma website and enter their names, and most times the pharma will send me a remark like "CONGRATULATIONS! THIS RE-SELLER IS A GENUINE DISTRIBUTER OF OUR PRODUCT!
J,, this is, now that Im thinking about it, opening up another can of worms. What if, just what if, the 2 pharmas "AND" most of the resellers were all one in the same? Now that might not be bad............if the pharmacy was really making the gear. But my fear now is................what is the pharma gen-shi or roild plus...what if THEY were actual resellers and on and on and on till no one even knows whos making this stuff, or if it comes from some Monrovian thug's basement .
To circumvent that, I tried another seller in turkey that sent me genuine "ORganon" gear in amps. But I heard from a few guys that their experience was those amps were very easy to counterfeit, and they recommended staying with vials. Is this a comedy routine or what???? -)
So is this what my ambiguous choice comes down to...getting the trusted stuff in ampules from real pharmas but they might be counterfeit, or ...getting underground gear in vials? And why in the hell is gen-shi always second most cheapest and roid plus THE CHEAPEST ON EVERY SITE YOU GO TO!!!!????? tHATS WHY i ORDERED FROM THEM. i FIGURE IF iM GOING TO GET RIPPED OFF, i MIGHT AS WELL PAY LESS MONEY FOR NOTHING BUT OIL. =)
One ampule from "organon, shattered when i dropped it , when my hand was 3 inches from the floor. So I checked the other batch of organon from thailand and I see the glass thickness is very very different.Much thicker. But see....i dont care if one of them is counterfeit. as long as there is 250ml of testosterone in it. LOL But is there?
Christ, why can the govt just let us buy this over the counter, if you are over 21 and we wouldnt be making drug rings in countries that may not even be on our side very ,very rich from all this!!!!? I hear Puerto rico sells this over the counter. But to me only a dealer would come back from PR with gear because hed have to buy enough to make the airfare well worth it. It smells dealer from day one. Anyone have success with puerto rico gear? There has to be a better way. And how about letting those same pharmacies in America offer blood testing right on the premises...you know...the way they give away free needles in some states to heroin addicts, and it saves countless lives from infections and AIDS. What a concept, aye! They should let pharmacies here in the states do it anyway, just like I said, if we can walk off the street and buy injections, an nobody but a diabetic is using them for legal purposes...why wont pharmacies let us get blood taken on the spot by the pharmacist. IT IS OUR RIGHT AS AMERICANS AND AS HUMANS BEINGS IN ANY COUNTRY , TO KNOW WHAT IS IN OUR BLOOD WITHOUT HAVING A DOCTORS WHIM DECIDE IF ON A CERTAIN DAY HE "FEELS" OIT IS WARRANTED.
Well there are multiple sources that all sell those brands you mentioned, I would not be surprised if they were all owned by the same people. Many of those sources ARE the same just different names.
Anyways, why bother with international source when you can get quality gear DOMESTIC. Sure it's UGL, but many of the top guys - muta, bigD, many of those guys have had their gear tested in a laboratory and the results were pretty damn impressive actually. Mostly 90% +/- purity and contained no heavy metals or high bacteria.
Sure, there is nothing that can match up with pharmaceutical quality gear, but there are some high quality under ground guys here with good gear. Never need to worry about your gear being bunk with those guys.
Also I know of some sources that have Pharma grade gear here pm me if interested.
thank you. -)
Ok, you guys are all agreeing with each others diagnosis, which makes the patient feel better. -) Cool. So lets say for a moment,that I didnt get bad gear,, what if my receptors are "testosterone resistant" so I need more than most to get the same gains? How much can I go up to before I start getting into risky territory? Now dont think I dont know this is a messed up question because if I had the money and the lab, Id be getting blood work done in my case every 2 weeks, especially the liver panel and keep raising the dosage every 2-3 weeks till good progress was seen. You can bet Im starting my next cycle on 750 or 1000....IF there is another cycle. Yes, my liver and complete blood work up 3 months before was fine but I have no idea if my doctor does estrogen checks. I doubt it.
My regular MD thinks Im on testosterone cream which he gave me after 2 yrs of begging him that Im not feeling up to par. If he found out I was on anabolics, he may not trust me again, being he already gave me testosterone cream, so I havent got a good reason to ask him for more frequent blood work.
Next case:
Being I have a supply of sustanon250 from 2 different sources left(both say Orgenon on the amp)Id like to go up to 1000ml split 4x a week,just to try a more frequent dosing method,what can I lose
I figure its important to get to that point whether on this cycle which was unplanned for or the next, because if at 1000 ml of sustanon which is mostly cypionate anyway, I will know I am just not a candidate for AS at all, and at that point and I can just throw my weights(and 30 yrs) out the window, and "get a life", a new one, literally. -) But its time to find out if Ive been jerking myself for 30 yrs. waiting for the right time for my "big comeback." I gotta say that at my age of 54, one "side effect" I WANTED to get was more aggression as I recently took up martial arts and its not fun being the demonstration dummy for your teacher who is 20 yrs younger. I wanted more aggression to make the other students afraid of me, Instead, I wilted like dried up flower petals from all the standing on one leg and deep squatting exercises. WTF! (&^%$#! Im one of the baddest guys at the school walking in, and 20 min later Im drained. Not good for survival in that atmosphere. LOL. Where the hell are all the new red blood cells! This workout alone should be getting me ripped as its very cardio-like.
Also, I ve been very depressed within 24 hrs of taking the proviron as well as 4 other natural estro blockers/regulators called DIM, dhea, tribulus and Rhodiola. and its now 72 hrs of depression. Could this be from the proviron acting so quickly!!!!?...... or is it more likely from finding out Ive been wasting my time for 10 weeks? I still want to know where this 15 pounds of bloat came from if I had bad gear. Hmmmm..... DO ANY OF YOU GET DEPRESSED FROM YOUR AI's???
Anyway, Im hoping this thread will answer a lot of newbies questions, let them add the dbol if they want, but at least Im hoping it will save you guys and the people of the future on this board from answering the same questions over and over. And by the way, if my sustanon is bad gear, the dbol is from a different country altogether, so i think I will add it back in and report back to you guys if theres been any difference. I will continue with 500 mls per week of sust. I only tried sustanon because they didnt have it in my day and I see its not a "magic solution". Thanks again guys! I work out in a gym where there are only old people using the cardio equipment so, there isnt ever going to even be one guy I can walk up to and talk about this too.Not under 80, anyway. LOL. This by the way is a good point for newbies to know...THAT WORKING OUT AT HOME OR IN A NON BODY BUILDING ATMOSPHERE ON GEAR, YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK! Thank God for you guys and this board!
RustyhookerPrivatemedlabs.com $59 female panel. Same test but cheaper. Knowing your actual estro...test ect is key.
Low estro can cause lethargy. But without bloods you're shooting in the dark. It should be easy to have your doc give blood test and refer you to endocrinology so you can get weekly injections. Cream has too many variables.
Forums...pct. Must read. Know high/low estro signs/symptoms.
Endurance comes right from cardio. If you're fully healthy from doctor the stairs, cardio bike, treadmill etc will be beneficial. Look at the older guys doing long distance marathons.
Many great questions but bloodtest before going further will greatly save you bad issues and harming yourself.
Thanks rusty,
I keep seeing this lab come up on all the boards. Id like to hope Florida is one of the states that allows you to get it done without a docs authorization. And coincidentally, Im going to see an endocronologist in 2 days because my thyroid has been low for years and no medication seems to do the trick. Big issue right there. Maybe I can get a prescription to have this done 1x a month from him. But I know for some things in my insurance plan(which is the worst) the doctor doesnt feel comfortable writing a script for it if the insurance wont pay for it. Some medications he will, but procedures like an epidural for back pain and others, which they wont he wont even touch.
Jesus Rusty, I never thought my AI'S and my blood work was going to be more costly and inconvenient to research than the gear itself. Times have changed! But you are right. Blood work will let me sleep better at night. Especially if I ever, ever decide to do Tren A again, which Id have to be either suicidal or desperate considering my experience after 4 hours with it in my system!
Thanks again!
RustyhookerThat's actually awesome for you! Tell endo about your gel as well as not feeling youthful etc. A good endo will run your test/estro along with the full scan of tests. From there he can modify/prescribe. Just explain the gels flat not working for you. Insurance will help greatly and typically save money. The others running trt use JUST the injectable as prescribed for a good 6months where bloods and adjustments can be made for your body. After you're fully adjusted then there's blast n cruiseers on here that can help ya. Basically, if you don't know what your body is doing...its like grasping straws.
RustyhookerTest/prop is effective and less bloat. If gains stop then really review diet/exercise.
Yea Bro you should of asked these questions before you started your cycle. You should of had some AI to start with ....so you ran your Dbol into week 6? if you didnt get any strenght gains in 6 weeks on sust and Dbol you got some bad gear IMO
and True your better off doing a front load or running test p as your kicker
but some guys like Dbol not sure why I say dont bother.
Obama BlowsI don't bother with dbol...I use prop ti kickstart my cycles...dbol sucks for the most part
Thanks mig and obama,
I was wondering if it was me that was crazy. Everyone keeps quoting Arnold as saying "dbol-Breakfast of Champions" And in the very next thread, another guy rips some newbies head off for asking if he could go on an all dbol first cycle. Ha. Question-How could I have gotten some bad gear if I gained 15 pounds on it? I admit I also started taking whey protein with it which I never believed in any of that crap being better than real food and I always felt bloated from the whey drinks. I wonder what it is. But I used both rod-plus brand and also Gen shi which have gotten decent reviews as far as a UGL goes.
Plus back in my 20's we all thought 15-20mg a day of dbol would actually make a difference as we were all scared of liver failure, never knowing guys today are taking 100mg's a day and more. How times change from the 80's to today. I actually got my dbol with a doctors prescription, and it still was no big deal!