posted Thu, 03/17/2016 - 16:55
2789
E2, Free Test, and Test - while ''cruising''
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hey guys,
my last blood draw was taken while I was on a ''cruise".
My ''cruise'' looked like so:
-200 Cyp - EW
-5 mg. D-bol - ED (yes, 5)
-30 mg. Ostarine - (SARM) ED
And now, for my bloods:
-Total test = 1498
-Free Test = 155
-E2 = 104 !!
My questions.....
I am aware my e2 was high as hell, so my Dr. gave me some arima. Taking .25 twice per week....now my knees and elbows KILL. What am I to do?
Can any of the experienced vets on here please enlighten me on the whole 'total vs. free test' thing? Both came in really high, which i'm cool with, obviously. But I don't really understand the difference between the 2...
Thanks guys!
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@Gator121212, this isn't criticism, this is simply a legit question. Have you considered simply doing a smart PCT and coming off of TRT for three months to see how your body would respond?
Damn, what brand test you use? my watson at 200mgs puts me in the 900s, never touched 1000. 1500 on the same damn dose, im starting to think watsons underdosing our gear haha. Well thats a small dose of dbol but dbol does convert very readily to estrogen, but thats a low dose,
Total test=worthless
free test= the test that actually builds muscle, test that is unbound, not bound to SHBG, you can have total test of 4000 like on cycle and free test of 155 like on your cruise and your results will be exaclty the same muscle gain wise. understand? 4000 total 155 free, 1498 total 155 free = same muscle building potential.
But .25mgs of adex twice ew should not have brought your e2 that low, hell when i first started with trt i was on i think 100mgs and my total test was 550ish and with .25mgs adex twice ew put my estrogen at 28, so in good range. your total test is triple that with the same dosage of adex, i doubt it brought it lower then 40, but at the same time that high estrogen was helping your joints, the extra water was like a layer of comfort, now that its gone that can explain the painful joints, even if your estro is in range or even still a little high. When my estrogen isnt a little high my joints fucking kill, when its in range in the 20s-30s forget it its so painful.
my TRt is watson.... i think i ended up at around 1500, b/c of the SARM ('ostarine'). It is legal, and works surprisingly well.
also, my free test was at 500*. That was an error on my end, when i originally said it was 155.
SARM = 'selective androgen receptor modulator', in case u are not familiar with them. Supposedly, they ''open up'' your androgen receptors.... making either your natty test OR your synthetic test ''work better''...by opening up the androgen receptors..... SO, I am wondering if these SARMS are responsible for creating a higher ''free test'' number?
500 free test is crazy, and the point of sarms or the aim of the development was to basically phase out injectable testosterone. As you know test makes some peoples hair fall out, gives people acne, enlarges prostates etc etc. so a selective androgen receptor modulator selectively binds and activates only the androgen receptor, and does not bind to ARs in the scalp, skin, prostate etc, therefore minimizing all the side effects of replacement therapy. But so far they have all failed, most didn't even make it to human trials, but hey fuck it we have no idea what this stuff does but let's put it in our body. Not me I'm good. I'll stick to the true and tried drugs that have been fda approved and have actual human testing done on them and have been prescribed for decades. Excerpt shit like eq and tren a which has never been made for humans but it's been around so long we know it's effects
i agree with you on that, partially. I did a lot of research on SARMS, befoe going and taking any. From what I found, ostarine seemed to be the 'safe' one of the bunch.
They are a huge thing here where I live, and they're sold right over the counter in supplement shops. Honestly though, I do think that they convert to estro... I say this because my nipps became sensitive as shit for about a week after having started the ostarine.
Thank you for the words of advice on the subject of Free Test Levels... Yes, 500 is quite high. But, my E2 was so highly elevated, that I did not feel like I was ''juiced'' up or anything, if that makes sense? I just felt some slight bloat, and a lot of fatigue. But this was before I threw in an AI. I am wondering why my free test was so high (not that it is a bad thing)? I can only assume the sarm.
Thats crazy they sell them at supp shops! Im wondering where you live now lol, in my country that would never fly.
But as for youre free test, It has to be the sarms youre taking. 1498 total test with 500 free test is beyond insane bro. 500 free is where alot of us are on 500mgs of test. Proviron increase free test pretty dramatically, but not like this. Maybe these sarms have a place in AAS cycles. I can only imagine what youre free test would be if you were running 500mgs of test with a total test of 4000 or so. 1500+ maybe? Thats crazy. Have to spark up a converstation on these sarms in regards to increasing free test.
it is in america....lol. I guess the laws vary from state to state. The bottles all say ''not for human consumption'' on them; that musy be how they get away with selling them.
During your cruise periods you need to get your test levels down to 1000 or so. You should drop your dose down to between 100-150mg / wk, let everything normalize and then get bloods drawn again to see where you are at. You shouldn't be running anything other than Test during your cruise, this is a time to give your body a break from cycling.
Thanks, waterhead235. I have never been one to get proper blood work done, but I will be doing so from now on.
How long was your cruise? You took 5mg dbol every day the whole time?
the cruise has been like 4 months now, and no, the 5 mg of D was probably done for like 6 weeks or so
I've read that ostarine can cause a slight increase of estro. Couple that with 5mg dbol aromatizing every day for 6 weeks without an aromatase inhibitor and it's possible the combo gradually brought your levels up to what your bloods show. What is your baseline estro on just test 200mg a week alone? Any blood work before dbol?
im not exactly sure brother.... Where I live, they require doc orders to get bloods. I can always travel outta state to do it, but they are sooo dam pricey.
I thin you are correct. But, I originally didnt now that SARMs convert to E2, and I didnt think a little 5 mgs of Dbol would really have any aromatizing problems. Guess I was wrong! LOL...
Ostarine is good shit though, aside from the Estro issue.
I am planning to hit 1,000 Test E, 50 Var, and 30 mg of Ostarine on my blaster.... Still debating which AI to throw in there as well....
Alright. You're set on blasting and cruising, you're a grown man and made that decision. I hope you've had kids already. You'll be sterile soon if you keep that up and if you aren't already man.
Honest to God, I have had 3 kids.... all of them were made while on cycles. I am retiring from my baby-making career Lol
your cruise is just a mini cycle. 5mg dbol on a cruise? save it for a cycle bro. the whole point of a cruise is to give your body a break, things that you may not be aware of can be killing you, example your cholestorol and blood pressure. for the time you cruise you should give these things a chance to normalize. i dont know how sarms effect those values, but again if your cruising, i would save it, give your body a rest. we want to be as safe as possible. 29 is young to be blasting and cruising.
if your using a doctor, tell him about your problems with your joints since starting adex, he may have you get more bloods done. dropping the dbol would also lower estrogen a small amount.
as far as free test and total test, free test is the amount of test free for your body to use, total test accounts for a large percentage of test that is bound to binding hormones like SHBG. higher free test is what you want.
SlowBro,
thank you for ur answer. The SARM was something that I originally believed did not have any impact on the HPTA...and that they were "meant" to be used during cruises. Ostarine may have been the culprit for such high E2 levels - I am not 100% sure though... I will say, however, it maintained ALL gains, AND increased my pumps.
I have tried to PCT approach, but now I just do TRT b/c the ups and downs seem pointless. And, b/c my LH and FSH levels were so diminished. Thank you for your explanation of the test vs. free test.
Cruising ????
Your 29, lets call your cycle what it is,.............. A CYCLE !!!!
I'm now aware that I didn't need to throw the 5 mg of dbol and SARM into the "cruise". At the time, I was under the assumption that 200 mg a week of test was not going to be sufficient for maintaining the level of muscle mass that I have.
To make a long story short, I didn't lose an ounce of gains. But regardless of my wrongdoings, I'm looking for advice pertaining to my Estradiol and test/Free-Test levels - not to be ridiculed...
I'll gladly be the one to ridicule you about your self administered bad idea permanent cycle. 29 years old and pointless to PCT? Constant test level at 1490+? You don't think that's stupid? Go and get a full blood panel and let's see your cholesterol and lsh/Fsh. Also if you need to be on a permanent cycle to keep whatever gains you have you are obviously not doing it right. Your body will not tolerate high doses because you can't see the damage it does and is doing. I just can't understand why people destroy their insides and shorten their lifespan for vanity. I'm sure you have it all figured out though and that's why you are never coming off. Why don't you post a pic of yourself and all those gains that a normal test level can't possibly maintain? Cover your face too because I want to see this beast that needs to take so much aas.
X2 Irish !
I guess a proper nutrition plan and training just won't keep muscle mass anymore! Damn I knew I was doing something wrong all this time!
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.
My appology for the sarcasm in my comment...however, if me agreeing with Irish Mack's post and my added comment on proper nutrition and training helps you to realize that this " cruise" you're doing is reckless and unnecessary then my "troll" tag you have labeled me with has been well earned...good luck to you
Drock, my bad mate. I agree that nutrition and training come first... i kick my ass hard whether its on cruise or on blast. My apology for the troll thing
Look who's calling the kettle black.
IrishMack,
I wasn't aware that my T levels were so high; I honestly didnt think that the SARM was doing that much, and didnt think 5 mg of Dbol was going to have a significant effect. I didnt ''feel'' like my Test levels were through the roof. Partially because my libido felt low...which turns out to be an aftermath effect of the SARM and the Dbol having converted to estrogen. Where I live, bloods cannot be given without a doctor's order...Thus meaning, I don't exactly have full reign to going and getting labs done at the drop of a hat. Sounds moronic, yeah I know - But, I'm just telling the truth on here...not to be ridiculed, nor to argue with people.
However, my cholesterol and liver enzymes came back in the normal range; as to the specific numbers-I'm not sure right now. LH and FSH are extremely low, hence my doctor's advice to use the TRT script...Which in turn, leaves me to believe that PCT is pointless (for me personally).
1498 is a very high level. Although you do not condone the 'blast and cruise' method, could you suggest a level in which you WOULD recommend one to remain at during a 'cruise' phase?
My
I recommend you PCT like a normal person and then get your training and diet in shape. If your arm is not broken why would you put it in a cast? In other words there is no reason for you to be doing what you are doing, even some of the best pro athletes don't blast and cruise, they cycle and get the fuck off. There's my recommendation.
Well pardon me, I was unaware that you had to have it your way.
didn't mean to come off like a prick bro... my bad!