+ 1 Doubt from a newbie (HGH vs AAS)
Hey everybody, what's up!
I was hoping someone could give me a hand on deciding what would be more appropriate in my case. I have been struggling to upgrade my bodyshape but really unsuccessfully. Ive taken some prohormonals for couple of months not so long ago, which did helped a bit, visually speaking (bigger arms, but not anything better than that). But still I cant manage to define a lean and nicer shape. Still some belly and lower back fat too. So, Im on the edge on starting a nice cycle but cant decide whether doing some AAS or already jump to HGH.
So, first of all:
27 years,
~14% body-fat
Mesomorph
1,72 height
72-74 kg (no changes for the past 2 years of training)
Training:
Routinely training 4 days a week
Basic program ( 1-arms altogether; 2-chest; 3-shoulders&back; 4-legs ) p.s.: just started training legs more seriously
Intensive cardio everyday that I'm at the gym (30m treadmill preworkout, plus some other cardio for 10m after workout)
Abs everyday as well
My initial 2 ideas:
a) AAS (clem + cipion + wins [+maybe some tremb] - and PCT of course)
or b) hgh 2iu for 4-5 months
Id appreciate if some of you could give me some tips. Im really struggling to both loose some fat and get a nicer bulked shape. I have no hopes of becoming a superman, but a sidekick would make my day! lol
So. if ive missed any info you guys need, just ask! 
Thanks
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I just looked at your pic, your in better shape than I imagined. Follow the advice below and you won't go wrong.
Keep training hard, even if you go on holiday get a hotel with a gym!
Thanks bro! Still long way to go, but the guys here are putting me on turbo mode with lots of great advice! =)
Im going to say +1, why , you asked for help you were honest you got good constructive advice , seems to me like your taking it ... much respect I truly wish we had more of this
WOW! That's really nice Pege!
As I said, if I knew you guys here could help me the this much, I would have come to you long before. I really appreciate all of you taking some time to help me out. =)
You need to get blood tests before you start taking anything. You have taken prohormones, so you definitely need to know if your balls are working right.
Stay the fuck away from clen, heart attack in a pill. Higher test will burn fat.
Yeap! Labs are good and I run them every 3 months already because Ive been taking finasterida for some early hair loss. Sugar, cholesterol, testo all normal. =)
Right on. You may not ever know what was in those prohormones, next round check LH, FSH, estrogens and prolactin. After starting test you're going to want to check estro often to get the right dose of your aromatase inhibitor.
You've weighed the same for two years?
You're a young guy, even naturally you should still be making positive changes. Either your diet or training or both aren't right, steroids won't change that. Can you give me an idea of what and when you eat on a typical day?
Might be useful if you could post a pic of yourself, then I can see what you've built thus far.
That's what I was thinking. Basic workout routine, and weighing the same for two years? My money is on him eating MUCH less than he believes he does, and having too lax of a workout regimen.
I feel like that's the biggest hurdle for newbies, they really think they eat over 3K cals or more, but really Barely breach 2k.
Trying to find a way to post pic here...
I do get really scared of over-eating actually... Ive lost almost 25kg 3 years ago, and then it stabilized on 72. I tried supplementing with carb-free proteins of every sort, glutamine, BCAA and creatine for the past year entirely. Have never even though about using gainers because Im scared of gaining fat-weight all over again. I would have to start counting kcal for real, but Im almost sure I dont go over 2k a day.
Thanks for the comments guys =)
Top right drop down, submit, self pic.
Make sure you hide / photoshop your face out of it gor security reasons.
WOW! Had I known that you guys would be this helpful, i would have posted long before!!! Thanks a lot for all the tips so far. Pics were uploaded ;-)
You were asking about my diet. I must confess it really need some improvement, but regardless of being a not very strictly controlled diet, I try to eat as nice as possible, mainly for fearing gain fat-weight again. And I do need to improve my schedule for eating, because i kinda eat when im hungry and i know thats awful. Anyway, my day goes something like this:
Breakfast:
Any fruit available
30g soy protein
3g glutamin
100mg DHEA (starting 2nd month in April)
No snacks in-between
Lunch:
sandwich - brown bread with some protein (tuna or turkey), cottage cheese, low-fat mayo some green
Pre-workout: (i usually train from 4 to 6)
3g C4 Cellucor
3g Creatine
Post-workout:
Shake with 30g hydrolyzed whey + 5g creatine + 3g glutamin + raisins
BCAA + Omega3 + Multi-vitamins
Dinner:
Full plate of vegetables (broccoli, carrots, spinach, cauliflower and peas)
Around 300g of protein (chicken, eggwhites, groundbeef or tuna)
Before sleep:
Shake with: 30g whey + 10g casein
It has been pretty much like that for the past 6 months, when I tried to change my diet last time in order to see if I could get better results. Though I did see some small changes in my body (abs showing a lil more) I saw no changes in my weight whatsoever... none, zero =/
As I said before, i try to stay as far as possible from carbs, and that's probably one of my mistakes. But Im all open to suggestions.
Again, thanks a million! You guys are really being great! =)
Reiterate what Crazy States below. Understand in your case why you're taking this approach due to history but there's no fuel there to build muscle. You'd be shocked if you saw what I eat, 7-8000 cals per day. But they are good calories, hardly any sugars, crap "empty calories". So we've got a starting point. Up your calories, but in your instance no carbs late in the day to avoid putting on fat. Have a look in the "general talk" section for "diet clinic". Read a couple of pages, the we'll talk further about what we do with you.
Whilst doing that, think about where you want to be in 1 years time as a goal. Weight and BF%. Then we'll build a plan.
Bro you need more food. I eat more before I leave to go to work then you do all day. I suggest reading the following link and listening to these guys about diet. Lots of knowledge around here.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/th...
Just looked at your pics. You have a solid base and obviously hit the weights. You look like you could make some great gains with a better diet. +1 for being open for advice
Not sleeping today already wanting to start all that asap! lol
Thanks for the link!!! I do think i need to work on my own fears of gaining bad weight and start eating like somebody wanting to get bigger properly. Your advice and the link is surely gonna help me with that!!! ;-)
I've just done the same. This lad HAS built a base here. I'm not adverse to guiding him on a simple test cycle. We tidy up his duet and he'll blow up.
What do you think?
I think a simple test cycle would be ok. Would definitely help keep the fat off.
I'm thinking 4-6 weeks of a ramped up diet. Get his body acclimated to higher calories and more frequent eating. Then transition into a nice 12 week cycle and he could make some great gains.
I think you just made my year! Never thought this post would bring me this much knowledge and support. Im all in to become that bulked sidekick with all your guiding. =)
So look down below at the cycle Vhman laid out for you. That's our cycle suggestion. Get your diet in line for a few weeks and then kick off with your test cycle.
Let us know if you need any more help / info etc.
Told you these guys were the shit
good luck with your bulk my man, I'll be following your progress!
FR sent.
And there is the issue at hand buddy. You're not going to grow unless you consume in excess of what you require just to maintain.
Carbs are your best friend when you're trying to pack on mass. Tell me, in your entire current food supply, how much pasta do you have? Rice? Bread? You absolutely need to eat big if you want to get big, you could run 10grans of steroids right now and you wouldn't grow because you're not fueling the body. It's not about eating, it's about fueling growth.
Think of your body like a campfire, how do you get it to become a bigger fire? Throw more wood/hay on it. And to get it bigger than that? Throw even more.
Post up what you eat, Catalyst is the man when it comes to tweaking diets. He'll have you growing within the week, but you have to take what he says and actually use it, not just nod your head and go on with yourself.
You aas plan is garbage. Please spend about ten minutes searching this site for a beginner's cycle (test only, and pct). Forget HGH as well.
Then you need to get down to diet. That is where it looks like you're falling down here. Lots of diet info and even a clinic to help with it.
There is litterally thousand of posts that can show you what to do. Post up once you've gathered the info and we can refine it from there.
That's why Im looking for some help =)
I moved last year to another country and people here are not the most helping kind of bros when it comes to talking about this stuff - it took me almost one year to find a legit place to order. So ive been trying to put up some info form the posts together - at least from those cases that are similar to mine, and i finally decided to look for some help on my own. But anyway, the aas cycle I had in mind was something like:
Week 1-10 Test E (250mg e3d) (**it's not cyp as I said before)
Week 1-6 Winny (30mg day)
Clenbuterol (2 weeks on/2 weeks off) scaling from 40 to 80mcg
**Week 1-12 Trenb E (500mg week) - wasn't sure of
PCT with Clomid and Novaldex
Thanks for the tips
Look, you need to do some more reading and searching.
A beginner's cycle should be Test-E or C, 500 mg a week (250mg Monday, 250 Thursday) for 10-12 weeks.
You should have an AI on hand.
PCT is Clomid and Nolva (Clomid 100/100/50/50, Nolva 40/40/20/20).
This should be your first cycle or you could even go to a lower dose. Only one compound at a time. It's the only way to know what compound is causing issues if they arise.
All the other compounds you listed have a laundry list of sides that are involved. Clen can have severe heart issues involved with it. Tren is the most powerful AAS out there and causes all kinds of issues. Not something to even thing about until you've run 8-10 cycles in my opinion (if ever).
Read this: https://www.eroids.com/og/beginners-cycles
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/how-to-run-a-cycle
That's really helpful Vhman! Gonna go with your advice and start off easy. The links you sent are spot on too, thanks for that.
Just one more thing... I was considering taking Clen to try and lose some belly fat and lower back fat. You see, some 4 years ago I was weighting 98kg of almost pure fat. I passed through a hell changing eating habits and supplementing until I came down to 70kg. But regardless of how intensive I keep doing cardio sessions I cant find a way to lose the remaining fat - also eating nice (not perfect, but nice). That's the reason why I started to google clen. Maybe you would know something else that I could use along with the testE cycle to target weight loss alone? Thats probably something every dude that has lost quite a chunk of fat will always worry about.
Anyhow, i owe you already for the tips. Thanks!
I'm glad you're going to take a reasonable approach to your aas use. It really is the prudent way to use them.
Clen is no joke and very dangerous. Unless you're a competitive body builder and/or an experienced user, I would stay clear. Diet is your key here. You'll be amazed how much fat you can loose with a simple cycle and a great diet. You'll be a new person and it's so much healthier for you. Keep it safe and good luck.
Hey Vhman, in that 10 week cycle, would you recommend using HCG too? I read a bit on some threads advising to use it as of week 4-12, along with the TestE. Also, on doing a single frontload shot of TestE, like 600mg on a 500mg/week cycle.
Hcg is an option, but I don't think you need it on this cycle. Save it for your next one.
This being your first cycle, I wouldn't worry about a front load. Front load will raise your estro pretty quickly. Just keep things simple and just run everything standard. That way you know what's happening and you can get a feel as to how your body reacts to a cycle. You need to lock your diet down from day one, because that's really the key here.