-19 EQ/Test E/Test Prop/Tren A/NPP/Tbol/Superdrol
Week 1 - 190 lbs @ 16% BF
Week 5 - 202 lbs @ 17% BF
Week 10 - 205 lbs @ 16% BF
Week 15 - 208 lbs @ 14% BF
At week 15 now.
EQ kicked at week 6, test E at week 5. So I've had 9 weeks of EQ, 10 weeks of test E, 5 weeks of low-dose tren a, and some tbol and SD so far.
Hoping for 215 lbs @ 10% by week 28, if I make it that far while still feeling great. Then back to TRT. Was 170 lbs @ 12% BF last June when I started TRT. I've come a long way in a year. Lot of hard work. Lot of hard work before that too with nothing to show. Before that first hormone panel I always just thought I had terrible genetics and I needed to keep working out just to maintain what I had.
Yes, this is my first cycle, not counting a 3 month 360mg TRT blast, but I've been researching and training for years, lifting for 4. Little did I know those first 3 years my natty test levels were so pathetic (200ng/dl) that building muscle was basically impossible.
EDIT: Will post bloods in a couple weeks, good or bad. I hope this gets deleted tho honestly. People are apparently having trouble believing someone can look this bad after 4 years of working out! The genetic lottery wasn't all bust, I did get alot luckier with the face. It's allowed me to date 9's my whole life or I would have started gear much earlier!
Pre-cycle pics were from Feb, post-cycle pics from May.
| Week | EQ | Test E | Test P | Tren A | NPP | Tbol | Superdrol | HCG | Aromasin | Caber |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1200mg | 900mg | 100mg | 80mg | ||||||
| 2 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 60mg | 12.5/EOD | |||||
| 3 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 60mg | 12.5/EOD | |||||
| 4 | 600mg | 450mg | 60mg | 12.5/EOD | ||||||
| 5 | 600mg | 450mg | 60mg | 12.5/EOD | ||||||
| 6 | 600mg | 450mg | 12.5/EOD | |||||||
| 7 | 600mg | 450mg | 12.5/EOD | |||||||
| 8 | 600mg | 450mg | 1200IU | 12.5/EOD | ||||||
| 9 | 600mg | 450mg | 1200IU | 12.5/EOD | ||||||
| 10 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 300mg | 1200IU | 10/ED | ||||
| 11 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 300mg | 25mg | 1200IU | 10/ED | 1mg | ||
| 12 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 300mg | 25mg | 10/ED | 1mg | |||
| 13 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 300mg | 25mg | 10/ED | 1mg | |||
| 14 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 300mg | 25mg | 10/ED | 1mg | |||
| 15 | 600mg | 450mg | 100mg | 300mg | 10/ED | 1mg | ||||
| 16 | 600mg | 250mg | 100mg | 300mg | 10/ED | 1mg | ||||
| 17 | 600mg | 250mg | 100mg | 300mg | 10/ED | 1mg | ||||
| 18 | 600mg | 250mg | 100mg | 300mg | 10/ED | 1mg | ||||
| 19 | 600mg | 250mg | 100mg | 300mg | 10/ED | 1mg | ||||
| 20 | 600mg | 350mg | 400mg | 1200IU | 10/ED | 1mg | ||||
| 21 | 600mg | 350mg | 400mg | 1200IU | 10/ED | 1.5mg | ||||
| 22 | 600mg | 350mg | 400mg | 1200IU | 10/ED | 1.5mg | ||||
| 23 | 600mg | 350mg | 400mg | 1200IU | 10/ED | 1.5mg | ||||
| 24 | 600mg | 350mg | 400mg | 10/ED | 1.5mg | |||||
| 25 | 600mg | 350mg | 400mg | 10/ED | 1.5mg | |||||
| 26 | 350mg | 400mg | 10/ED | 1.5mg | ||||||
| 27 | 400mg | 10/ED | 1.5mg | |||||||
| 28 | 10/ED | 1.5mg |
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Holy fuck that is a lot of shit dog...damn bro...y u need two orals?
P2i2tokay, it seems most things are addtessed below and instead of telling you everything I think that is wrong with this layout, im just going to ask a simple question because I am curious as to what your "precautions" that you mention consists of. what do you plan on running for an exact liver support protocol? because I look at this and I see sdrol, tbol, and tren, wich without proper prevention translates into alt and ast levels bordering on the dangerous side. I know you said you have all of these precautions and back up to precautions and whatnot but I would like to hear your actual detailed protocol for this if you don't mind.
wastedyouthThank you sir, this is the kind of stuff I can use. I was worried a little about elevated enzymes, but I've read that all the liver talk and jokes (oh, bro you're gonna shit out your liver!) is mostly overblown broscience, as long as you don't drink within a couple weeks of taking c-17s. The liver is the only organ which has the ability to self-cleanse, and come back from the depths of near death to fully functional within weeks. Not including cirrhosis. Speaking of which, no swollen abdomen or feet here. No jaundice (skin looks fine,) urine, stools look good, no abdominal pain or tenderness. Not tired anymore since stopping the SD either. If I wasn't very careful about liver support I may have had some issues though... I've taken liv52 Double St, n2guard, and a powered mix full of RYR, milkthistle, hawthorne and other stuff, and I had NAC on hand, never took any though (family history of kidney stones and petrified of them)
I'll be getting bloods done soon so I'll be able to put all this to rest.
P2i2tif I can be completely honest with you there really is nothing blown out of proportion when it comes to talk of liver toxicity with 17aa orals. not trying to argue with you or anything but I remember I was running a cycle and taking dbol without any liv support other than liv52ds (the same kind you use). I went and got my bloods done and came back with ast levels of 80 with a range of 10-40 and alt levels of 194 using a range of 9-46!! when my blood work was done it was through my primary doctor and was pulled for something completely different.he did not know what I was up to and came back and told me he wants to do a test for hepatitis because my enzymes were out of control.this is when I came clean to him which was probably the best thing I could have done because he ended up working with me there after to help keep me healthy throughout the process.this is when I found out how seriously the liver can be affected and how real the talk of toxicity really is. the thing is I felt and looked absolutely fine during this time.me nor anybody else would have ever thought I had levels that high.I would always recommend using some form of tudca while running any type of oral. my personal protocol is aegis 6 caps per day (which includes tudca amongst other helpful ingredients), liv52ds 6 per day split morning and night,and milk thistle. the usual recommended dose of tudca is 1000mg or 1 gram daily. yes, the liver does have a tendency to rebuild itself for lack of a better way of explaining it, but there is a point where damage starts happening it becomes irreversible. Once your liver starts scarring there is no fixing it.liver toxicity with these methylated oral compounds is really no joke and should never be taken lightly.not saying you were taking it lately but I'm just stating a fact.have you ever heard of Aegis? if not check it out bro.it is a liver support made specifically for taking 17aa compounds and is one of the best liver support available.glad to hear you will be getting blood work done soon.the most important part of a cycle if you ask me
Weeks 12-24 post pics of your chest; I wanna see those luscious moobs a milkin.
btw my 1st year on TRT I kept gaining muscle and never plateued because I researched about diet, different training regimens, e.t.c. I certainly will not condone this cycle but the evil side of me says just do it and watch how all the AAS in the world will not help overcome stove and fridge/freezer plateaus.
Not growing anymore? UP YOUR FOOD INTAKE.
Tired more in the gym? UP YOUR CARB INTAKE
Not seeing lean muscle? UP YOUR PROTEIN INTAKE
Still not seeing results? BULLSHIT
AAS will not make up for bad training and bad diet so my advice is go ahead and do the cycle and keep training the same way, and keep eating the same way; when you get ZERO results and YES YOU WILL LOSE SOME EVEN ON TRT and for this cycle you will gain 20 and lose 18 since it will be all the water weight so piss out the gains. If you come back and say your diet is on point you are truly lying to yourself because you will NEVER plateau as long as you feed yourself properly. Even 2 pounds of muscle a year is still gaining and not plateauing
wastedyouthLOL I'm on week 15 now and you can't milk me yet. Have a shitload of prami on hand in case the caber doesn't do it.
ALOT of good points here. I admit I have spent wayyy more time learning about AAS than nutrition science. I just love food man. I know diet is key, so maybe I need to make more sacrifices, and start looking at food more like a tool, like lifting, rather than a joy. At least until I get to where I want to be.
wastedyouthLot of experience here telling me to back off. Hard to argue with experience, and I do appreciate the advice. I haven't had bloods done since pre-cycle (because there's no labs that participate in privatemdlabs or labsmd within a 4 hour drive in any direction!), but everything was aces pre-cycle.
All I can tell you is minus being a little sweaty, and a little tired while I was running those c-17s, I've felt fantastic the entire time. The minute that fails to be true I'm turning tail. I've taken all proper precautions, ad-nauseum even, with all contingencies in-hand. Even backups for contingencies, mostly in the form of redundant forms of ancillaries (anti estros, anti-prolactins), and three types of pre-mixed cycle-support supps (n2guard, etc.)
You could kinda count my 9 months on TRT as a cycle, since I did blast a little, so I've got a good head start on understanding the sides of test/estro, and how they affect me. Which let's be real, getting in-tune with that is a big part of the whole "run test first" gospel, and a pretty major factor that separates noobs from experienced AAS users.
To be honest, compared to the decade plus of hard recreational drug use I unfortunately battled with before getting clean, this about feels like the equivalent of a couple hits of weed. I know it's different, but I know my body well.
Right after I got accepted to med school and got suspended from uni for drug-related bullshit (yup, was 4 months from a bachelor's in biology), I bought some gear after researching HEAVILY. Decided to not go down that road, and flushed it. Again, a couple years later, I got more, and ended up selling it. Four years later, this time I fucking went for it. Getting off-the-record bloods in a couple of weeks (have to leave the damn state!), so as long as no issues pop up, I don't see any major harm in getting things going quickly, and taking less later on, and that's not just talk - Once I get to my 225 @ 10%, hopefully after cycle two, I'm just maintaining.
Let me ask you this - does anyone have experience with a negative side effect of AAS use that didn't manifest into something they could FEEL, only later verifying a problem existed via blood tests? That's what I'm afraid of, since I understand a lot happens behind the scenes, like lipid prof. issues and cardiac damage. If anything I was really on the fence about the SD, knowing how much it raises LDL (like 40%) and lowers HDL (60%!). And this cycle length in general does make me more nervous about the cholesterol than anything else, since chol. normalization is more dependent on the duration rather than the dosage of gear, and as a general rule the longer time you spend with out-of-whack chol. levels, the greater your risk of fatty liver disease, cardiovas disease, heart attack, stroke, all that fun stuff.
Hate if you will, but since this is where it's gone, I would actually appreciate constructive points, scientifically, on why this is so terrible for a guy in my spot. I have not written this cycle log in blood just yet.
Your screen name fits you and this cycle perfectly. It's troll-tastic.
wastedyouthThanks, but not a troll. Just making up for lost time.
Holy Hell! Your running all that for a first cycle! You should be able to put muscle on with just your TRT dose now with a good diet and workout protocol. Absolutely no need for all of this.
wastedyouthThanks Makwa, appreciate your thoughts. I know it's kinda weird but, after 4 years of working out hard, it only took 6 months after starting TRT to plateau. Gained 15 lbs first 3 months of TRT, then 5 lbs the next 3 months, then nothing for 3 months, even with a little blast. Maybe I needed to give it more time, but my 8-year relationship ended 18 months ago, and I've been single ever since and am sick of wasting time.
Working out and striving for the goal of a great body is what has kept me clean. Every day i get home from work, I push steel for 45-90 minutes instead of pushing the plunger and getting high. The dream of looking fucking awesome is part of what has kept me straight. I won't sacrifice my health to get there, but I don't think adding low dose tren and a couple orals is going to put me in a much worse spot than just test/EQ, which I doubt anyone would really protest with my TRT XP. My plan originally was just test/EQ actually, but the results slowed way down (like zero gains between week 5 and 10) and I felt great, which gave me the onions to keep testing the waters. I've always been a pretty adventurous guy, so I guess I'm not surprised.
I just want what I've been working for years to get and it seemed like it wasn't coming. I'm not getting any younger which is an issue since I have a thing for 25-yr olds....
If gains are slowing it is usually diet related. I would reassess your diet before adding more drugs to the equation. Take a look at this to keep the gains coming without adding additional drugs.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/i-know-my-tdee%E2%80%A...
wastedyouthI've admired your work here before bro... you bring up a great point that I admit applies to me, and have delivered it very well in that post. While I eat clean, only low GI carbs and good fats, at least 300g protein/day, lots of fresh fruits and veggies, I've never really been good at bothering to count calories.
I've heard that it's important to adjust for your new calorie expenditure as you gain lbm, but I seem to keep forgetting that, hoping that if I don't eat enough, my body will just take what it needs in fat to meet TDEE. That hasn't really happened, and if I'm in that spot where I need to pull fat to meet TDEE, I'm not going to be adding lbm anyway, so perhaps I'm in need of a sustenance overhaul.
Right now my rule has basically been eat clean, eat a lot, but sometimes I miss a meal. I toyed with adding some Mod GRF 1-29 and GHRP-6 to boost appetite, but I believe it or not I thought adding GH releasing peptides to the mix was crossing the line
Why on earth do you believe you need all this?
wastedyouthBecause I'm actually a 7 year IFBB vet named Rocco.
Somewhere between sarcasm and a joke I assume? Having looked at your pictures, I really don't know what to say to you. I've typed about ten different responses and deleted them all. You remind me of an old member, JK703. Those that remember him will maybe understand what I mean.......
Ummm. Nope. Keep it simple for first cycle. If you really had that low natty test you can make great gains on a lot simpler cycles. Hell TRT by itself will get you some great gains. And I hope those stats you posted by week are goals and not actually what you achieved.
wastedyouthFirst 15 weeks are indeed now in the history books. Hearing everyone say I should have gone lighter is making me question things, but the second I feel off, I'm out.
Well you are just wasting a shit ton of cash and taking a lot of risk for absolutely no reason... Most gain 20-30+ pounds off a simple test e/c cycle at around a 500mg dose. So lets run through some numbers of your progress. You started off 170 @ 12% so that's 149.6lb lean body mass. After 9 months off TRT you got to 190 @ 16% so 159.6lbs of lean mass. Hmmm a whole 10 pounds of lean mass( I would say muscle but I have a feeling its just water). And what's with the increase in fat after TRT? Ok back to the math. Now you are 208 @ 14% so 178.9lbs of lean mass. SO lets round it off and say you have gained 20lbs of lean mass during this extreme cycle. I have to say that's pretty shitty. Why you ask? Well like Mack says up top you have a lot of water in you now ballooning you up that you will just piss out later. No offense but I would bet money that any one on this site that did a simple Test cycle with a good diet, not even a great diet just good, gained more then that in a shorter time. But hell you are a grown man. Do what you want I guess. Just seems like a complete waste to me to be doing all those drugs, spending all that money and not really getting much out of it relatively speaking....
Oh and don't even get me started on that comment you made about your past addictions. This shit is addictive and anyone who says otherwise is just trying to rationalize his own drug habit. Oh and btw I have been in your shoes as well with school. I was in a top 10 engineering school with a full academic scholarship and I got kicked out for a couple drug possession charges(though I was dealing and was lucky I didn't do time). So you should know as well as anyone the choices you make may seem insignificant and rationalized at the time but have a lasting negative affect.
wastedyouthA guy named crazymofo is telling me I'm crazy. Fuck
Bro, thank you, that was packed with useful. And exactly the reason I wrote this (and got flamed Salem style).
First, I have NOT been bulking this whole time. It has mostly been a bulk, but somewhat of a recomp... which is why I've LOST BF since starting. Lot of off-days I took it light on the diet to drop a few ounces. I'm starting to think doing it that way was a mistake. I just really don't want stretch marks, so I've been trying to displace the fat with muscle rather than just adding a bunch of tissue.
I would not call these first 15 weeks extreme. Test, EQ, 5 weeks of low dose tren and a kickstart oral and a finisher oral? Still, it's def not weak, and yea If I was bulking I would probably be up 30 lbs, and up a couple % BF after 15 weeks. Now have I failed at recomp? Maybe. The next 4 weeks I've been planning for a cut, hoping to get down to 10%, then hit the NPP bulk if I'm still feeling good. So with that said, you still think 20 lbs lean gains is shitty? Have all the big compound exercises covered - DL, bench, CU, front squats, dips... Maybe I need to start muscle confusion or add some HIIT or something.
I know, gaining fat on the 120mg/wk TRT dose sounds weird, but I stopped cardio at the end of last summer, and just started lifting more. I hate cardio so much, and after realizing all that time trying to build muscle was a fool's errand with gutter test, the weight gain I was seeing WAS addictive. I started going to the gym when i was TWELVE.
Sorry to hear of that shit you went through. Hope you're doing well now. I wonder alot where I'd be today if I didn't get busted and do time. Maybe it's a good thing, since i probably would have gotten popped writing my own opiate prescriptions or something if I had made it to MD. I still got lucky and got a great job in engineering, so the cost of all this gear is not an issue.
mustafa5903I'd like to see the "research you have" on why its okay to run tren and deca in the same cycle (not alone the first cycle) with 27 weeks of test and a powerful oral like superdrol.
I'd like to see the diet you're on.
Sorry about your natty levels but thats no excuse to commit suicide in your first cycle bro.
More doesn't mean better.
Even if you ran test and eq together for 15 weeks as your first cycle is a no no. Nevertheless tren and npp? BROOOO!!
YOU should have just ran test higher and than drop it back to TRT if you're originally on trt with a great diet it will do you wonders.
I dont even know what advice I can possibly give you except stop your cycle completely and go to the doctor or just run test and drop all the other compounds.
wastedyouthI know it's a lot, but I think I can handle it. I've always known my body's limits far better than the people I surrounded myself with for years. Maybe that's not saying much, but I'm hoping I'll know when to chill. I'm considering dropping the last three weeks of SD, but I have to admit I wasn't aware that running two 19-nors in one cycle was a no-no? I'm not running any nolva near them, and I'm not running them at the same time, so I don't have to worry about the double-whammy progesterone buildup. Please let me know, you caught me off guard with that one!