+ 1 Strange Side Effect
So i'm planning on using a test only cycle in the near future. High doses! Maybe not high to some of you but definitely high for me. More than a Gram a week. I have never used more than 800mg/ew and quite frankly, I haven't done that often. Depending on the secondary compound I like to keep it as low as I can. Anyway, after talking to someone tonight I started thinking about a strange side effect I get when I have huge spikes in my test level. It happens with TNE and High doses of prop (200mg+). While everyone else ranted and raved about how amped they were on Tne, I was scratching my head. I would pin 100mg pre-workout. Go to the gym and feel slightly more focused, a little jolt maybe. but also felt kinda shaky and weak, similar to that feeling clen gives you. By the time I would get home, as soon as I sat down I would pass out. I mean CRASH! Like I swallowed a fist full of benzos. Every time I used it, same reaction. Tried it from a different source, same shit. Haven't given it much thought until recently. I got some test prop-250. I pinned a full ml recently (250mg) just to gauge my reaction to such a high dose. Well the next morning I had all the normal sides (libido up, strong wood) but I felt so damn tired. i thought "Maybe I need to eat more". Didn't help. Somehow got through an entire work day walking around like a zombie went home and fell out. Crashed again, just like with the tne. So my question is, has ANYONE ever experienced this? Is it a spike in test that does it? If so, WHY? Why are others enjoying the great effects of high test cycles while someone like me is feeling like laying down wherever I am and going to sleep? Is this what will happen on a Long ester test at high doses? Any and all insight is welcome. I sure as shit can't figure it out or find anything concrete on the web related to this topic.
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Hey Nitti.
I get the same thing when I run high dose test. Not sure what it is but once plasma stabilizes it goes away. I run bloods all the time and during this mishap all levels were on par for my dosing. As soon as plasma peaked I felt like a monster. During this time period of tiredness I had plenty of strength and my workouts were still on point it was after the workouts when I crashed. I chalked it up to minor test flu...Also I should mention it was the worse the following day, wether I pinned prop or E made no difference it was always the day after pin.
Estrogen spike or worst estrodiaol and high RBC would be the most common assumption.
My guess would have to do with low blood sugar. High test spikes tend to have an effect on your glucose. That's just my guess, because it's happend to me and the endo told me drink Gatorade and donate blood.
It was narrowed down to and identified as the guaicol in the TNE. RBC was not the issue, estrogen was not the issue as these two things were both monitored and leveled while trying to work through this problem
i used some tne with guaicol in it during my last cycle. i cannot recall the same feeling, i would pin before the gym, never really noticed too much in the way of a replacement for preworkout, or anything special in that sense. but never felt a crash afterwards, if i did it was most likely due to the caffeine crash from my preworkout. this is an odd phenomenon
Really, guaicol
Ever use anything with that shit in it?
There was a source I used once that he added it to the testosterone and mast. I cut him off because it would make me smell wierd and my wife complained about my scent and the way my semen taste.
Well aside from the pungent smell, it has this effect on me that you read in the post. I know it is that because of the methods I used to eliminate possibilities. One by one I killed a possible culprit. Starting with estrogen and prolactin. Even high white cells due to cystic acne at the time. Then I checked to see If maybe the EO was doing it. At this point I still thought it was test in high doses. Anyway, long story short, it was finally realized that the products with this garbage solvent in them were the only ones causing the issue no matter the test dose that particular day
That's was good work, bro the process of elimination. +1
In your original post you said it happened after taking test prop too a day following the pin. Perhaps there is a spike in estrogen as the half life time approaches. As the test levels get higher, the aromatase enzyme becomes more active. I would think unless you were pinning 250mg prop consistently(which if I'm reading correctly you did just once) or testing estrogen every few hours then monitoring estro levels would be impossible.
It was common knowledge about me at the time (controversial as well) that I refused to use an AI. Believe me, a close inspection was given to possibilities of estrogen rebound , increases or spikes
Yes. Refer back to that cycle. Same shit in it because of the high doses they made the gear at (prop 200) and the source I used to start that run was the first time I heard of that solvent. What 3 years ago now?
Estrogen helps maintain normal sleep cycles. When you have an imbalance of test to estrogen like that, it throws you off. The first few weeks of test e suck for me because I have energy when I'm doing stuff like working out or doing anything but as soon as I lay I down, I fucking crash really bad. After like week 6 of test e, I feel fantastic.
It could just be an estrogen, or lack thereof, side effect
Some people just dont tolerate higher dosages.
You may find spacing/splitting your injects up may
help. Maybe E3D or EOD or even daily.
its funny my lady has the same sides she could pin prop than take a nap and she doesn't take a "girl" dose.
Bump for 270strength
Niti I had got some prop 250 from one of the top sources here. I pinned a ml in the glute. Swole up like I had a baseball underneath my skin. The next day at work I felt like I had been on dope for three days with no sleep and ran the f out. Very bad lower back pain and just wanted to sleep. No energy and none of this so called sence of well being stuff people talk about. I dont know why, just seems like the same shit I went through. It sucked but I did it again. It got better, but had to dillute with grapeseed in order to shoot it. Wasnt worth it to me. Just didnt want my money to go to waste.
Not sure if this is related in anyway but I would always get super tired about a hr or two after taking dbol. I would have to drag my ass to the gym for the four weeks I was on it but when I came off I was back to having high energy.
I have to keep my dosages moderate these days or fatigue does happen to me.
I have no explanation why but a marked difference no question. I have been told
it could be from over stimualtion of the CNS.
Had something similar happen, added proviron to my stack and energy went up fast. If your running gh might be that too.
I'm using proviron. And yes it makes test more efficient. If you read the thread you'll see that it's been discovered what caused my issues. Guaicol
my friend that I described to you having these symptoms as well took my suggestion and only did 1/2 ml of the prop 250. He said it still gives him a bit of pip but NOTHING like the full ml. His test flu like symptoms have dissapated. He pinned his quad the last time he did a full ml and some mast prop too, now he is swollen and red in his quad to the knee. Just hope it's not infection and just inflamed muscle.
I tried that man. I actually tried it with the prop 250 and a different labs TNE. Happens no matter what. I think i should just stay away from guaicol. i'm glad your buddy is good tho.
So the mystery deepens today. Last night I pinned some Test E-500. I confirmed with the source that this product did in fact contain guaicol. But nowhere near the concentration of the Test P-250. Anytime I pinned the 250 ,by the next morning I was in bad shape. This morning I'm perfectly fine. This could be a number of things. Even tho it is the enanthate ester, the solvent should effect me right away if I'm reacting to it right? So maybe there wasn't enough of the solvent in this product to give me side effects or the normal reaction I get. Or maybe I need to look to other possibilities for the sides. I can cancel out blood pressure as it is totally normal right now (usually is). I can cancel out caloric intake as I eat SOMETHING every 2 hours. I have some strange genetics. My body is like a furness and I burn up everything so fast that if I don't take in enough calories on a regular schedule, I get these same sides. Well this time it isn't the calories. Another possibility , tren! I'm using tren e which is known to slow down cardio and endurance in the user. Only problem I have with this is I run tren fairly often. I NEVER have this problem and I'm using EQ as well which does the opposite to my endurance so the two probably cancel each other out (I'm guessing here). So I'm back at square 1. Maybe it is the guaicol but the prop has such a high concentration that I only see the sides when using that. My next step is to pin the prop, and get bloods done the next morning. Does anyone know if there is any way to tell from blood work if you're having an allergic reaction to something?
I get like this when i run long acting test thats why i love prop , for some reason everytime i run enanathate i am always tired
since i kind of started this storm ive been doing a lot of reading....from what i gather guiacol is absorbed pretty rapidly in the body. im sure this will take some trial and error but im thinking that if its pinned in the late afternoon you will experience some late in the day fatigue but who doesnt have that? the level will start diminishing as your are winding down and will continue to do so while you sleep. it should be mostly out of the system by the time you get up in the morning and theoretically would eliminate most of the lethargy side effect...i would say def worth a shot
Thing is that i pin before bed, i'm also on long esters only and i still feel fatigued on the days i don't pin
x2
does kinda put a hole in that theory...
.
A difference in EO and Gua
The LD 50 which means lethal dose for. 50%popultion
In rats EO orally is approx need 5000mg per Kg to kill
For Gua it's approx 500mg needed per kg to kill the same rats
Thus in a simple manner of thoughts
Gua is ten times as toxic as EO is by strength per MG
I would assume the amount needed to make gear would be very low thus under the LD dose and thus not gonna kill ya
Similar to how anadrol is toxic but people take it and live everyday
Hope this helps
No one panic
if you were to make tne in eo im guessing the eo content would be 75-80% and only about 10% would be guaiacol...not anywhere close to lethal. i dont know right off but i think the ld50 of tylenol is significantly less than guaiacol...my bad read that as grams but u get where I'm going with it
Absolutely no more than 4grams Apap (Tylenol)
Per day for normal healthy person adult
Less than 3grams per day for renal impairment
So yes you are right Tylenol is more toxic
From all I've read I'm pretty sure the liver toxicity of oral steroids is overrated. I've heard acetaminophen is far more toxic than dbol or abombs.
I read that 5 weeks of binge drinking is worse then an anadrol cycle at 150-200mg ed for ten weeks!
anadrol was prescribed medically in doses up to 450mg per day for 8-10 months at a time.
anadrol's "toxicity" is complete broscience. Since it has been tested and used in the medical community for years and years there have been a few people that had liver issues. THEY had pre-existing liver issues and the anadrol was not making it easier on the liver.
but even then anadrol is not hurting the liver to the point that everyone believes.
Winstrol has been shown to be more toxic. winny at 50mg is more toxic than anadrol at 50mg
Ya I almost shit when I heard they prescribed it at 2-3mg per lb of body weight lol. But ya I heard winny is toxic just never knew how much. I wonder how toxic methyltren really is or cheque drops. Compared to something we take like alcohol or aspirin.
dude I knew someone who took 30 vicodin per day. (they were addict) each vic has 750mg acetaminophen
30 x 750 = thats 22grams of tylenol.
4grams isnt going to kill you not saying It's safe by any means but nowhere close
4grams is the national standard cap for Tylenol
For any use medically
Your "friend" is a fuckin idiot that will experience liver failure if he keeps it up
What do I care what he did
"Hey dude there is a bum down the road I know that drank 30 beers and shoots meth all day
Well above the recommended limits
He is still alive , should what's so bad about it " lol
You can see right up top it has an LD 50
Or what mean how much to kill half the tested animal populations
It's toxic for sure guys
Look under section two right up top
Shit
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924208
Here is safety profile of Guaicol
Says its a skin irritant strange it's used in gear
So this is a combustible chemical and an irritant to even the skin? And why do they use it then? Is it absolutely necessary? And can anyone definitively say that this is causing my lethargy?
Yes it's combustible and yes it's skin irritant as well!
They use it bc it's super solvent
Necessary; some don't use it in their products
Lethargy ; can not definitively say that's the cause
I would perhaps take a short break and see if energy levels rise to normal
If not
Doctor check up time for you bud
I'm switching out labs. Going to use a test prop without guaicol. I'll report back. Thanks for all the help. Hopefully this post clears some things up.
Did it make a difference?
Can anyone say this is what's causing my lethargy?
No. Certainly it's scientifically possible, but there's a whole host of others things it could be.
Most organic compounds have a bit of an irritation property to them, and they all have the unforgettable smell, and like Muta said its necessary to dissolve the raw powder to keep it in solution
If u look at almost any msds sheet there will be some sort of irritant warning on them. It's hard to say definitively if its what is causing your problem but try a tne with ba and bb and see if u have the same reaction, if u don't then chances are its the guaiacol
Anonhttp://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927169
(shown to cause hepatic cancers in animals) (EO)
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927099
(simple Benzyl alcohol) - look how comparable this is..
same goes for EO and about every other chemical used to make gear.. minus the grapeseed oil (etc) that you can buy at the grocery store. No need to create conspiracies unless you have a chem backround - which if thats the case, i'd love to pick at you.
Now I can go through about everything you ingest (food /drinks included) and find an ingredient on it that has some conspiracy or case study showing it leads to cancer or renal kidney failure. but none the less, most of it is completely irrelevant to your health.