+ 9 Rethinking dosing in the face of self reflection and self experimentation!
This post probably is not relevant for our Pro's and competitors on here because obviously your goals and needs are far greater then mine. Instead, it is intended to create some thought and discussion amongst the fellas and ladies out there who love working out , and just use gear to assist them in attaining their personal goals. Anyway, I started bulking in August and was running Sust 750mg a week, Npp 100mg eod and started with Dbol 50ed. After a few weeks I was getting some noticeable gains, but along with that some unwanted side effects despite running appropriate ancillaries. So I decided to drop the NPP and Dbol. To my surprise my gains continued to come, weight increasing and getting stronger. With that I began to question myself if the gains I had in the beginning were from the gear or from the fact that I was training my ass off, eating big and clean. So, I decided to conduct a self experiment by titrating my Sust dose down from 750 - 500 - 250mg per week over several week. Yup just 250mg. With each change, I continued to feel great, No loss in weight, strength or libido. All I lost was my Backne and Sore nips. So It made me reflect on my personal goals of staying healthy, being strong and just looking the best I can at almost 41 while enjoying this wonderful hobby. I asked myself do I really need those high doses and multiple compounds to achieve those goals. I'm not sure I have answered my own question yet, but I intend on trying lower doses for my next cycles.
So what are your thoughts? is this coincidence? do we use excessive amounts for little return? Also, I challenge all noobs to keep your goals in mind and start low and slow to see how you react. You maybe surprised. Thanks for reading.
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So well said and always a much needed reminder to the general users of AAS! I can attest to learning the same thing myself. I started off telling myself that when I do a blast cycle it would be very low doses of more than one compound after of course I did a few with testosterone alone. Then I noticed my dosages and compounds creeping up up do to the "more is better principle lol." Like you all I got was extra sides with no noticeable difference in the positive effects. So early on I stopped that mentality and have made steady gains ever since. Not to mention who much my stash stays around longer. I to expound again the old saying around here but my nutrition and intense training style is the foundation of my growth and the aas is the supporting cast. But I found myself reversing this truth in the beginning do to the obsessive desire to find an easier road.
For me size is not a goal yet I keep getting bigger. Endurance, stamina, and strength and in that order are paramount for my life. The people I see on here making the most significant gains like yourself from where you started are actually the most intelligent. Constantly learning and evolving to make their personal road with aas there very own and not following a cookie cut out program.
So glad you chimed in brother! It was quite an eye opener. I hope to continue to learn , grow, and evolve through personal experiences like this for a long time.
I am new here and I have just been sitting back reading and reading and reading, Then I see this post. What's Ironic is that just this morning I was thinking about how most of what I am reading seems to pertain to comp level people. I started to think about what I wanted and don't remember seeing anything for the casual person getting back into things and just looking to lift with an edge but not to the max. So I'm only asking this to see if and who has a recreational cycle (for lack of a better phrase) I realize it's all recreation but I'm sure you all know what I mean. A cycle for the "I just want to workout with an edge".
What combination would be best for this from TEST to PCT? I'm going to guess here but with the low dosing I'm guessing PIP is not a concern? I'm not the expert everyone here is so if I have it all wrong forgive me.
As mentioned, try posting here instead: http://www.eroids.com/og/all-aas-users-welcome
Based on your stats be prepared to discuss your diet and workout routine before someone offers cycle advice.
My apologies. Thank you
Start a new post with your stats i.e age height weight goals history, e.t.c Noone is going to answer your question without it and it needs to be a new post not hijacking a thread, Thanks!
That was not my intent. My apologies.
nice reminder here. i was debating between going 100mg npp eod or just 50mg eod...after reading this and thinking about it 50mg eod it is!
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE!! I could sit here all day and preach conservative cycles and have a damn fun time doin it lol
Most of us can still make good solid gains off simple cycles, but the "more is better" mentality is so very prevalent. In the majority of instances there's a fairly small amount of difference in terms if gains if you hugely increase doses. Twice as much gear NEVER equals twice the gains.
We all need a reminder of this, good post +2
Good post brother. I know I'm a little guilty of over-doing it at times. I'm one of those guys that doesn't get acne or sore nips and can handle a pretty heavy dosing. But who's to say what damage Is being done by this. It's easy to forget health when your goal is to be huge.
It's always good tondo some self reflecting. Right now I'm in my pct and am finding recovery a lot slower than my last recovery. My cycle was heavier and it's caused me to reflect a little on what my goals really are.
This reminds me. How about an update on the proviron in PCT thread? +1
I am only a few weeks behind you..
I'd like to hear about that too
I'll be updating that thread very soon. I had final bloodwork done on Dec. 5, but don't yet have a hard copy of the results. I'm expecting them in the mail in the next few days and will post them asap.
Thanks for coming in and reading neighbor! I had slap myself in the face when I started seeing sides and ask myself wtf are you doing this for and my answer was to be the best I can be . I think hurting myself possibly with high doses is the exact opposite to that goal. I'm not getting paid for this .. Lol
With people like Hllwd and Tred on this site constantly preaching it's a marathon, I've kept my doses low, and my cycles simple. Frequent blood tests have also helped me understand you don't need much to have great levels.
That's exactly why I had my epiphony. I had to reasses my goals!
BOOM! The child-like menatlity that MORE is BETTER is so prevelant on this site its DISGUSTING! Its a true tell of the mentality of most (and you guys that don't post stats, we know thate your youngsters just by the "stacks" you post!) +3
It was a real eye opener! I'm no pro or ever plan on being one so I figured Let's see what I can with just a little help! And low and behold I still got results!
RustyhookerYessir!! I too am going back to the wsy i used to cycle and grow. Smaller stack with no sides and eat huge. I used to stay around 195 hard with a stack under 500Mg combined. Jacked calories high and busted my ass hard. Running bigger stacks for me jyst meant more food needed. More spent. Getting the most boom with less hassles. Funny thing is many of the competitor guys claim to also run small, wel planned cycles. I wish the advanced cycles group actually worked. There's a few things i wish i coulda shared....researched. Like like short estered stacks switched every 4 Weeks to mass....lean...dry.....shred. Of course food is key but i think ya know what i mean.
Glad to see you chime in on this.. Always respect your opinion. I thought I'd just share my experience...
RustyhookerYou sure brought a chunk of reality in this thread!
Good write up +1
This is exactly why I ran my first cycle with just 400/ml test-e a week.. and I think my next cycle with just be about 500/ml a week.. no need to jump the gun!! Let the products work for you!!
i respond very well to low doses, kind of learned that the same way you just did. also learned how fast i can aromatize with mulitple compounds. i like low dose blasts with as few compounds as possible. I really dont run orals because i can barely control estrogen and sides on them. but im with you on this on several levels. this is personal thing for me like you
Good to hear bro! I guess it just shows that in this game it sometimes takes a long time of trial and error to find what works for each of us and we can never stop learning.
thanks for sharing the story,im glad it worked out for you. i hope some other gym rats listen up and try lower doses before going to high doses. +1
I just thought I'd share. I never ever ran any test that low. I'm not saying 250mg of sust does much for most, but when I got that low I expected to poop out, but I didn't. After many cycles this kind of made me think a little and hopefully it will help some noob avoid the more is better mentality...
No coincidence; I am lifting harder and stronger since i went to 250 a week of C. What I noticed personally on 500-700 was more water weight and a smaller appetite. When I dropped low I could eat a house and I am adding more weight to the bars then before. Only side is libido is a little down but I still can get it up fast lol. I have always advocated for less equals more. I turn 42 very shortly.
I believe there is much merit to your conclusion. It's liquid confidence, just that little bit over natural production is enough to give you that all around feeling of well being, and confidence. It translates to the gym no doubt.
We all get mixed up with the "more is better" mentality at one point in our journeys for sure, its just human nature.
However, there is much to be said about a lower dose.
Good write up!