But they are pointless jinto. As they do not prove what's in the vial is human grade growth hormone all it proves is the person pulling bloods has elevated igf1 and elevated growth serum period. It doesn't say molecular weight, doesn't say if its human grade or not, doesn't say if it biologically stable or not, etc etc. Now if the product was deemed real growth hormone we would use these tests as they were originally intended for which is to gauge dosing from blood work using legit human grade growth hormone. The only way I believe a vial is real is to have it sent out and have it tested period other than that all these igf1 and serum tests are inconclusive as it says absolutely nothing about authenticity.
If more people showed the initiative to learn and find out the science based facts behind growth hormone this site would be a better place. Instead to many people follow instead of lead my friend. As I've said and hailrazor have said saying to people buy pharma doesn't fix the problem by any means. Having people know the effects of growth and exactly what it does long term as well as short term is what will change the tides here. Too many people are caught up in the price , igf1 and growth serums along with sides to give a shit. High igf1 levels do not give the same results as growth hormone if that was the case people would just be running legit igf1 PEPs which isn't easy to find either. There are plenty of medical journals online thst explain how growth hormone works and why it does what it does. A lot of these guys believe the side effects are substantial evidence that their "growth hormone" is pure when in fact the impurities in these vials are what cause these side effects. True testing isn't cheap nor is it easy to locate an establishment thay offers it,but igf1 and serum tests are the difference between them is one tells you molecular weight, what's in the vial, and the amount of impurities.......while the other is just igf1 levels and serum levels in your body that's it.
IGF1and serum are used in the states and other countrys to test levels of growth hormone in patients prescribed pharma growth. It isnt used for anything else other than properly dosing patients. So to use IGF 1 and serum levels for generics and using the readings to gauge purity of the generics as many do here is just plain incorrect. Until each batch has an M/S done along with the other tests hailrazor has been trying to get people to open their eyes to all these tests are proving is something these people are taking is elevating their IGF 1 and growth serum even then tho we have no idea how much its raising them because no one pulls base line bloods while not taking anything. Having elevated IGF1 and growth serum doesn't necessarily mean it's legit pure growth hormone at all. An just because they are elavated and it has similar readings to what pharma growth reads doesn't mean its growth or that it will have the effect and gains growth gives you.
Well for what it's worth I took these same tests when I was taking a different generic and got 0.1 serum GH and 200 IGF. So I presume that's my baseline.
Working together is always best.
I'll find some other info and send it to ya via PM. I think EmPee's post about GH is a great post. The man is ahead of his time.
I've posted some IGF-1/IGFBP3 info there also.
From what I've seen with some of my test results (not posted yet) there's no magical chinese GH potion. It's just basically an impure counterfeit product.
No, you are right....if it's completely bunk, then the GH Serum test does help.
(BUT....LabCorp GH Serum reads a wide range of GH Proteins)
As for as legit "generics".....I would just like for the community to have a better testing method "if that's possible". If you follow all the HGH IGF-1 testing posts (which we all do)........all the Generics seem to raise IGF-1.
"Buy Pharma Instead" isn't a good response to all the Generics being sold either. I totally understand that.
But I'd hope you'd agree trying a different testing method that May or May Not be better isn't a bad thing....right?
Also, I see sources posting HGH lab test results (M/S) that are off yet still raise IGF-1 levels. No one notices any of this. I post quit a few legit M/S test results. I don't see anyone else doing these types of tests. Id really like to see more testing of the product itself instead of using blood work to test the product.
More common sense, accurate, useful info there buddy. The tester must be qualified to to do the testing correctly and the equipment used must be calibrated correctly to test HGH (synthetic). A "standard" or known pure sample must be used also.
I don't understand...what does the "correct" test prove one way or another? Has anyone demonstrated that the "correct" test is more predictive of actually getting HGH benefits compared to the serum test?
IGF-1/IGFBP3 Blood Work combo was used to compare Genotropin/Omnitrope (true generic). That's why I was researching and doing my own blood work testing using this method. That particular study never mentioned injecting 10ius and doing an IGF-1 apprx. 3.5hrs later. GH Serum test wasn't used either in that testing protocol. This is an actual medical study and not something found on any BBForums. So much $ being spent on all these color tops, etc.....I was just researching something different that I thought might help the guys that buy these types of kits.
Pull the links up for these people bro. We've been repeating over and over again what I figured was common sense if your involved in this game, care and want to know what goes in your body and have done the proper research in growth hormone before just ordering and injecting wildly.
When people fast before a test, blast 10 ius to 15 ius of the "product" than pull bloods 3.5 hours and the levels that come back are the equivalent of 2 to 3 ius of legit pharma grade growth what does that determine? A. If it is indeed true growth hormone there is a problem if it takes 10ius to 15ius to equal 2ius to 3ius of pharma. If you were to do 2ius to 3ius before the test what would it read?? Nothing good I imagine . blasting that much skewrs test results and as long as they see a rise its good...... B. If there are no prior baselines bloods with nothing in their system than who the fuck knows what's going on. Throw in a few other substances along with the growth like peps, gear, etc etc readings could rise and fall. Timing of the day makes natural levels fluctuate along with diet training and just about everything else so now take that into consideration. C. It will vary from batch to batch to batch even tho we would all like to think the makers of these generics have multi million dollar facilities with state of the art equipment along with highly trained scientists I don't think they do so there for the quality control of big pharma producers isnt there either. Even pharma companies have issues from time to time and have to scrap batches.
That is the million dollar question right there!!
How to test for the HGH we know will give us the results we are looking for!! Only way I have found that, truthfully is with pharma
Regarding this specific product, I can report some other sides I had for what it's worth. Swollen joins, carpal tunnel type pain, tingling in my fingers...and for awhile I was waking up with a RAGING pain in my right forearm.
This has all subsided considerably, which on the one hand makes me happy, but I also hope I don't have a mixed bag of good/bad vials.
Even not knowing your baseline igf levels, unless you have really great genetics for being 38, your igf raises a substantial amount in "but one or two days". It may be something crazy about whatever this stuff is. I wonder if hailrazor would know why it'd do that, unless it was going to peak at some crazy value. I know these tests aren't really the way to go about determining efficacy of the gh though
I've been doing some different testing methods lately. I posted the Ansomone result. Increased igf-1 with one SubQ injection (am injection and tested the same day)
Trying to see if a IGF-1/ IGFBP3 combo might be a better way of testing GH
The GH Serum testing is pointless in my opinion. You need to look at what the LabCorp GH Serum test is reading.
I was thinking if you tested your GH serum before pinning, went home and pinned a few IUs, and then got the some GH serum blood test after it would show either a spike between the two tests (indicating that the product is indeed HGH) or it wouldn't show a spike (meaning that it's bunk). Thoughts?
Hey man, if IGF-1 and HGH serum tests aren't the route to go to tell if you HGH if real and/or potent, then what test is? Are there good bloods to get for this or do you have to get a sample of the HGH tested itself?
GH Serum:
You have to understand what the LabCorp test is testing for. It will read a wide range of GH Proteins and not only the Human Growth Hormone (191aa) So that means "other proteins" or "impurities" will raise GH serum levels.
IGF-1 would be a better start to testing. IGF-1 can be elevated and tested the same day of injection (doesn't need the 4 week time span as stated on the "norm" GH Protocol"
An addition of the IGFBP3 test might be an added help in testing the "effectiveness" of the GH Product being used. But...that's still out for debate.
Looks like my HGH samples will be done within one weeks time and hopefully it can help to understand more about some of the GH products that are being sold as real Somatropin.
That does not answer the question. Which blood test would be best used to determine the quality of our HGH? If these test aren't effective then which test should be performed?
There is no blood test that determines the quality of growth hormone. The only blood test is igf1 and serum to test levels of igf1 and growth serum from pharma growth being administered.
If it is from the pharmaceutical company this test would work just fine I believe. It's the fact that this in particular is not 191aa(more than likely), so yes in this case some type of MS, but even then probably more testing is necessary and I'm no biochemical engineer so I don't know really
Prior to this I had tried a box of Kigtropin. Several boxes, actually, and I ordered blood tests about halfway through. In that case I followed the standard protocol I heard about on various sites: IM injection in the delt exactly 3 hours prior to the blood draw. I was also taking igf-LR3 at that time, every day, sub q in the belly.
The results were 0.1 for serum GH (very low), and ~230 for IGF.
Incidentally, I didn't fast for either test as I understand it's not necessary when you're testing exogenous HGH.
How long had you been running this HGH & at what dose? Do you have Baseline IGF numbers? What dose did you administer as per the HGH serum protocol? #'s look great. But your description sucks. +2
One day, 1cc at 4am, another at 7am, test performed at 10am. Both injections subQ. No baseline IGF numbers. I don't know what the "HGH serum protocol" is. Sorry if my description is not to your liking. Just trying to help.
A CC or Cubic Centimeter also 1 milliliter is a measurement of volume. When we are referring to dose, we are asking how many Active units also Known as International units or iu's there in 1cc/1ml.
So if you know how many milliliters you reconstituted your HGH at we could determine your dosage.
Your testing was around 3 hours after your first dose, not bad. But it was sub-Q and I'm not sure what the assimilation rate is on subQ. I just know we see best numbers on a serum test with intratesticular injections.
I'm guessing you are rather young in order to have IGF levels that are already flagable as HIGH. but continue to run these & retest IGF in about 3 weeks to see if you HGH has raised your IGF levels.
How about your Testosterone readings? You surely must have been running that for some time now?
Ah yes, of course you are right. I should have said 10 IU.
I'm 38, not so young.
Intratesticular? You can't be serious....
I had previously run a test using another company's HGH. In that case I did an IM delt injection 3 hours before the blood work. My result was 0.1 in a reference range of 0-10. I reported that company here as bunk.
And yes I had been running Test E for several weeks as well, before this test.
wow nice numbers sir
Nice shit bro +1 I'm running these with great results
Not true Jinto.....the new RazorTropin (Blue Tops) and TonyTuloTropin (Yellow Tops) or Da ShizzNit. (Coming Soon)
Lmfao
But they are pointless jinto. As they do not prove what's in the vial is human grade growth hormone all it proves is the person pulling bloods has elevated igf1 and elevated growth serum period. It doesn't say molecular weight, doesn't say if its human grade or not, doesn't say if it biologically stable or not, etc etc. Now if the product was deemed real growth hormone we would use these tests as they were originally intended for which is to gauge dosing from blood work using legit human grade growth hormone. The only way I believe a vial is real is to have it sent out and have it tested period other than that all these igf1 and serum tests are inconclusive as it says absolutely nothing about authenticity.
If more people showed the initiative to learn and find out the science based facts behind growth hormone this site would be a better place. Instead to many people follow instead of lead my friend. As I've said and hailrazor have said saying to people buy pharma doesn't fix the problem by any means. Having people know the effects of growth and exactly what it does long term as well as short term is what will change the tides here. Too many people are caught up in the price , igf1 and growth serums along with sides to give a shit. High igf1 levels do not give the same results as growth hormone if that was the case people would just be running legit igf1 PEPs which isn't easy to find either. There are plenty of medical journals online thst explain how growth hormone works and why it does what it does. A lot of these guys believe the side effects are substantial evidence that their "growth hormone" is pure when in fact the impurities in these vials are what cause these side effects. True testing isn't cheap nor is it easy to locate an establishment thay offers it,but igf1 and serum tests are the difference between them is one tells you molecular weight, what's in the vial, and the amount of impurities.......while the other is just igf1 levels and serum levels in your body that's it.
IGF1and serum are used in the states and other countrys to test levels of growth hormone in patients prescribed pharma growth. It isnt used for anything else other than properly dosing patients. So to use IGF 1 and serum levels for generics and using the readings to gauge purity of the generics as many do here is just plain incorrect. Until each batch has an M/S done along with the other tests hailrazor has been trying to get people to open their eyes to all these tests are proving is something these people are taking is elevating their IGF 1 and growth serum even then tho we have no idea how much its raising them because no one pulls base line bloods while not taking anything. Having elevated IGF1 and growth serum doesn't necessarily mean it's legit pure growth hormone at all. An just because they are elavated and it has similar readings to what pharma growth reads doesn't mean its growth or that it will have the effect and gains growth gives you.
Damn TT......you make waaaaay too much sense. Scares me! =)
It will go unheard as usual lol
It's not going unheard bro. Thank you for all of your valuable input. I am learning so much about hgh on here. Thanks to all of you valuable members.
Well for what it's worth I took these same tests when I was taking a different generic and got 0.1 serum GH and 200 IGF. So I presume that's my baseline.
Working together is always best.
I'll find some other info and send it to ya via PM. I think EmPee's post about GH is a great post. The man is ahead of his time.
I've posted some IGF-1/IGFBP3 info there also.
From what I've seen with some of my test results (not posted yet) there's no magical chinese GH potion. It's just basically an impure counterfeit product.
No, you are right....if it's completely bunk, then the GH Serum test does help.
(BUT....LabCorp GH Serum reads a wide range of GH Proteins)
As for as legit "generics".....I would just like for the community to have a better testing method "if that's possible". If you follow all the HGH IGF-1 testing posts (which we all do)........all the Generics seem to raise IGF-1.
"Buy Pharma Instead" isn't a good response to all the Generics being sold either. I totally understand that.
But I'd hope you'd agree trying a different testing method that May or May Not be better isn't a bad thing....right?
Also, I see sources posting HGH lab test results (M/S) that are off yet still raise IGF-1 levels. No one notices any of this. I post quit a few legit M/S test results. I don't see anyone else doing these types of tests. Id really like to see more testing of the product itself instead of using blood work to test the product.
How easy is a M/S test to get? I was under the impression that it's was expensive & you had to be attending or working at University to obtain this.
Most universities can't even test growth. Many can test steroids tho as long as they have the proper equipment and someone who knows how to run it.
More common sense, accurate, useful info there buddy. The tester must be qualified to to do the testing correctly and the equipment used must be calibrated correctly to test HGH (synthetic). A "standard" or known pure sample must be used also.
It's not cheap. I've only found one lab that can test HGH correctly. Have 7 samples that I'm still waiting on results. Test is sllllllow.
I don't understand...what does the "correct" test prove one way or another? Has anyone demonstrated that the "correct" test is more predictive of actually getting HGH benefits compared to the serum test?
IGF-1/IGFBP3 Blood Work combo was used to compare Genotropin/Omnitrope (true generic). That's why I was researching and doing my own blood work testing using this method. That particular study never mentioned injecting 10ius and doing an IGF-1 apprx. 3.5hrs later. GH Serum test wasn't used either in that testing protocol. This is an actual medical study and not something found on any BBForums. So much $ being spent on all these color tops, etc.....I was just researching something different that I thought might help the guys that buy these types of kits.
Pull the links up for these people bro. We've been repeating over and over again what I figured was common sense if your involved in this game, care and want to know what goes in your body and have done the proper research in growth hormone before just ordering and injecting wildly.
When people fast before a test, blast 10 ius to 15 ius of the "product" than pull bloods 3.5 hours and the levels that come back are the equivalent of 2 to 3 ius of legit pharma grade growth what does that determine? A. If it is indeed true growth hormone there is a problem if it takes 10ius to 15ius to equal 2ius to 3ius of pharma. If you were to do 2ius to 3ius before the test what would it read?? Nothing good I imagine . blasting that much skewrs test results and as long as they see a rise its good...... B. If there are no prior baselines bloods with nothing in their system than who the fuck knows what's going on. Throw in a few other substances along with the growth like peps, gear, etc etc readings could rise and fall. Timing of the day makes natural levels fluctuate along with diet training and just about everything else so now take that into consideration. C. It will vary from batch to batch to batch even tho we would all like to think the makers of these generics have multi million dollar facilities with state of the art equipment along with highly trained scientists I don't think they do so there for the quality control of big pharma producers isnt there either. Even pharma companies have issues from time to time and have to scrap batches.
Take all that in.....
That is the million dollar question right there!!
How to test for the HGH we know will give us the results we are looking for!! Only way I have found that, truthfully is with pharma
Regarding this specific product, I can report some other sides I had for what it's worth. Swollen joins, carpal tunnel type pain, tingling in my fingers...and for awhile I was waking up with a RAGING pain in my right forearm.
This has all subsided considerably, which on the one hand makes me happy, but I also hope I don't have a mixed bag of good/bad vials.
thanks bro, welcome everyone test our puretropin at any time, we think you will get good results.
Even not knowing your baseline igf levels, unless you have really great genetics for being 38, your igf raises a substantial amount in "but one or two days". It may be something crazy about whatever this stuff is. I wonder if hailrazor would know why it'd do that, unless it was going to peak at some crazy value. I know these tests aren't really the way to go about determining efficacy of the gh though
I've been doing some different testing methods lately. I posted the Ansomone result. Increased igf-1 with one SubQ injection (am injection and tested the same day)
Trying to see if a IGF-1/ IGFBP3 combo might be a better way of testing GH
The GH Serum testing is pointless in my opinion. You need to look at what the LabCorp GH Serum test is reading.
I was thinking if you tested your GH serum before pinning, went home and pinned a few IUs, and then got the some GH serum blood test after it would show either a spike between the two tests (indicating that the product is indeed HGH) or it wouldn't show a spike (meaning that it's bunk). Thoughts?
Hey man, if IGF-1 and HGH serum tests aren't the route to go to tell if you HGH if real and/or potent, then what test is? Are there good bloods to get for this or do you have to get a sample of the HGH tested itself?
GH Serum:
You have to understand what the LabCorp test is testing for. It will read a wide range of GH Proteins and not only the Human Growth Hormone (191aa) So that means "other proteins" or "impurities" will raise GH serum levels.
IGF-1 would be a better start to testing. IGF-1 can be elevated and tested the same day of injection (doesn't need the 4 week time span as stated on the "norm" GH Protocol"
An addition of the IGFBP3 test might be an added help in testing the "effectiveness" of the GH Product being used. But...that's still out for debate.
Looks like my HGH samples will be done within one weeks time and hopefully it can help to understand more about some of the GH products that are being sold as real Somatropin.
Hey bro I sent u a friend request. Gotta ask u some questions if ur willing to help!
What is the most efficient way of testing your HGH outside of getting is mass spec'd?
From what I understand hgh serum and igf levels are only good for determining the efficacy of hgh that is already known to be authentic
Correct.
That does not answer the question. Which blood test would be best used to determine the quality of our HGH? If these test aren't effective then which test should be performed?
There is no blood test that determines the quality of growth hormone. The only blood test is igf1 and serum to test levels of igf1 and growth serum from pharma growth being administered.
If it is from the pharmaceutical company this test would work just fine I believe. It's the fact that this in particular is not 191aa(more than likely), so yes in this case some type of MS, but even then probably more testing is necessary and I'm no biochemical engineer so I don't know really
Bingo
For what it's worth:
Prior to this I had tried a box of Kigtropin. Several boxes, actually, and I ordered blood tests about halfway through. In that case I followed the standard protocol I heard about on various sites: IM injection in the delt exactly 3 hours prior to the blood draw. I was also taking igf-LR3 at that time, every day, sub q in the belly.
The results were 0.1 for serum GH (very low), and ~230 for IGF.
Incidentally, I didn't fast for either test as I understand it's not necessary when you're testing exogenous HGH.
Yeah, I hear Kigtropin has been shit for a long time now
How long had you been running this HGH & at what dose? Do you have Baseline IGF numbers? What dose did you administer as per the HGH serum protocol? #'s look great. But your description sucks. +2
One day, 1cc at 4am, another at 7am, test performed at 10am. Both injections subQ. No baseline IGF numbers. I don't know what the "HGH serum protocol" is. Sorry if my description is not to your liking. Just trying to help.
A CC or Cubic Centimeter also 1 milliliter is a measurement of volume. When we are referring to dose, we are asking how many Active units also Known as International units or iu's there in 1cc/1ml.
So if you know how many milliliters you reconstituted your HGH at we could determine your dosage.
Your testing was around 3 hours after your first dose, not bad. But it was sub-Q and I'm not sure what the assimilation rate is on subQ. I just know we see best numbers on a serum test with intratesticular injections.
I'm guessing you are rather young in order to have IGF levels that are already flagable as HIGH. but continue to run these & retest IGF in about 3 weeks to see if you HGH has raised your IGF levels.
How about your Testosterone readings? You surely must have been running that for some time now?
Lol IMtratesticular
Ah yes, of course you are right. I should have said 10 IU.
I'm 38, not so young.
Intratesticular? You can't be serious....
I had previously run a test using another company's HGH. In that case I did an IM delt injection 3 hours before the blood work. My result was 0.1 in a reference range of 0-10. I reported that company here as bunk.
And yes I had been running Test E for several weeks as well, before this test.
That was supposed to be intramuscular. Phones think they know what I want to say
lol
AnonYou had only been running it for one day before taking bloods?
Yeah, or maybe I started the day before the test. I forgot. But one or two days.