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  • Velociraptor232's picture
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  • Edit Ironlion Grey Top Labs

  • Velociraptor232   •   Sun, Apr 21st, '19 11:39   •   24 replies, 387 views

NOTE: Simple Mass Spectrometry is not enough to determine dosage and purity of tested substance.
Tests done with GC/MS, LC/MS/MS or HPLC methodes are considered much more reliable!

Sources: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
            

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Description

Second and third set of labs for me running Ironlion GH. You can see my first set of labs on my profile, I ran 2.5iu dosed twice a day, morning and night and only pulled a 267. My baseline levels were 193. Obviously a little low for that dose. However I had overdone the arimidex on my previous cycle and completely crashed my estrogen. From my research estrogen is involved in the signaling pathway for igf-1. Figured it could've been the reason for the low numbers. I decided to pull bloods again once my e2 leveled back out. The main reason I was using GH was for the connective tissue strengthening properties. In this study,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821728/ it showed a significant increase in collagen synthesis at a dose that equates to about 15iu for me. After I normalized my E2 levels. I ran 15iu for 3 weeks, dosed right before bed. Had a little bit of numbness and tingling in the feet mainly, but nothing unmanageable. However about a week into it I noticed I was getting extremely thirsty during my workouts, like chugging water and 5 mins later just as thirsty as before. I knew that was a sign of high blood sugar. Started researching and was shocked I hadn't heard about what high doses of gh do to blood sugar. Really interesting method of action, if you haven't looked into it I high recommend it. Purchased a glucose monitor and unsurprisingly overnight fasting levels were anywhere from 105-115. At this point I went and got some Regular Insulin and began dosing 2-4ius pre workout, got up to 6. Was already drinking carbs during exercise. Helped with the thirst but didn't effect fasting levels. After a total of 3 weeks, IGF 1 Levels came back at 530ish. I decided to switch to dosing the hgh first thing in the morning so i could hopefully combat the strongest effects of the hgh on blood sugar with the insulin instead of having them peak while I slept and in turn, elevate fasting glucose levels. On the 2nd day I woke up with my left arm numb and both hands tingling. Still taking 15iu like I was before. 3rd day same deal, took about 5-10 minutes for the numbness to go away. Whole day feet where going numb, driving, walking, standing. Wrists were killing me. Basically had the sides I expected I would get from 15ius. I knew that some "bros" out there recomended dosing in the morning because you didn't want to supress your big nighttime surge you get naturally, but from my research, igf 1 levels are the driving force in the negative feedback loop that determines how much gh you produce. Since IGF 1 levels remain elevated all day it shouldn't matter when you take the gh, you won't get that big natural surge at night. However I don't know of any other way to rationlize the extreme uptick in sides when the only thing i changed was when I dosed it. Food for thought I guess. Anyway, I switched to 5iu due to the joint pain and numbness that effected my performance. Ran it for 4 weeks. Sides decreased substantially, back to the level of the pre bed 15ius. I had also ordered some levimir long acting insulin and it arrived during this time. Got up to 10ius twice a day. That brought fasting glucose levels down to 95-105. After 4 weeks IGF 1 levels were in the 340's. Obviously still low for 5ius but still higher than when I dosed it 2.5iu morning and night with crashed E2. Also in studies, levimir has been shown not to significantly impact igf 1 levels. So i ruled that out as the culprit for the lowish reading. It actually raised igf 1 levels by 8% in one study, but like i said it wasn't enough to be considered significant in that case. Iron Lion customer service has been great this whole time, couldn't be happier with the treatment. He even honored an old promo that had ended. It also seems from most of the other reviews and labs my results are abnormally low for the dosages I used. I refridgerated the hgh from the moment i recieved it, only reconstituted it as i needed it. Injected the BAC water in gently and down the side. One theory I had was that since I was only using 1 vial every 3 days, and the longer the hgh is reconstituted the more it degrades, maybe it was really like 5ius the first day, 4 the second and 2 or 3 the third day. But it seems other people have run the grey tops in even smaller dosages like 3.75 a day and still pulled higher bloods than me. Kinda ruled that one out. Wish I had labs on the 15ius dosed first thing in the morning. Wouldve been interesting to see just how high it was. I stocked up before I started this run so I have alot of the grey tops left. When I run out I'm gonna try the orange tops. Those seem to have really good reviews and since they're only 10ius they will be reconstituted for a shorter period of time. I think that's a better way to go. Any questions, or criticisms, are appreciated

Comments

  • ironlion's picture
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  • ironlion
  • 4 months ago

Thanks for testing our puretropin(grey top), and posting it honestly,

we will offer you 100$ as credit store, you can use it at anytime,

welcome everyone test our puretropin(grey top or orange top), when we confirm you post the test results honestly, we will offer you 100$ as credit store , you can use it at anytime,

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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  • Rustyhooker
  • 4 months ago

Noone hits 15iu at one sitting. Splitting doses causes or simulates natural spikes. Your body can only use so much of any chem at one time.

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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In the study on collagen synthesis I referenced in my original post, they used a single sub q injection. And for the highest dose, it would have equaled 15iu for a 100kg male. My goal was increasing collagen synthesis in connective tissue so I followed the methods from that study so I could hopefully have similar, if not the same, effects.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://journals.aace.com/doi/pdf/10.4158/EP14165.CR&ved=2ahUKEwiNlfnb0eLhAhXEvZ4KHWdQDqUQFjAMegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1a7EfDbqLDLYZjOPfhQ--Q&cshid=1555899653399
In this case study, a male accidently continued taking 4mg (12iu) of GH once daily when he was supposed to lower the dose. He noticed lower jaw protrusion and foot growth. He also had IGF 1 levels in the 800's. That's from a once daily dose. Obviously an extreme example but he continued to have increases in igf 1 levels when he went from 2.5mg(7.5iu) to 4 mg(12iu). Now would his levels of been higher if he split it into 6iu twice daily? I don't know. I think what your saying is correct but based off the previous 2 examples its not 12iu or 15iu. Based off the research I think its a higher amount. I'm relatively sure we can't determine an absolute threshold, based on the research available, where "X amount of HGH will not raise IGF levels higher than this lower amount of HGH". If that was the case then we should see 15iu in a single dose doesn't raise IGF 1 levels any higher than 8 or 10 or 12iu's in a single dose. Obviously you've been around much longer than I have and you have alot more experience with HGH than I do. I understand research doesn't always support what happens in the real world outside of a lab. Anecdotal evidence can have a lot of value especially when its clear there is not enough research, ex. A study showcasing the IGF 1 level differences between once daily dosages of 15, 20,25,30 etc ius. Not trying to be disrespectful in a any way. Just interested in learning a little more on why it should be split

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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Not gonna read that nor spoonfeed you. Theres research here showing why. Go search.

  • Sciroxx's picture
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  • Sciroxx
  • 4 months ago

GH especially at such a high dosage should be split to (at least) twice a day, it'll also enable the pancreas to cope better with the extremely high glucose levels which the GH releases into the circulation (you may get some more info here - https://www.eroids.com/forum/hgh-peptides/rhgh/ghs-effects-and-what-is-the-optimal-length-of-usage)

I would suggest you to stay away from Insulin (the dosage you used is certainly low, and no harm done but still...) which will just lower further your insulin sensitivity. I would consider to rely on low/moderate dosage of IGF1 to increase insulin sensitivity and of course lower glucose levels while increase sharply the general anabolic impact - https://www.eroids.com/forum/hgh-peptides/rhgh/gh-igf1-and-should-i-combine-them

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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Could you elaborate on why split dosing is better than a single dose. It seems most of the studies I find are using single dose including the collagen synthesis one i referenced in my original post. This one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821728/
They showed large increases in igf 1 levels even as the dose, for a 100kg man, increased to over 15ius a day.
At first glance, It appears logical that splitting the doses would be easier on the pancreas but I'm not so sure. I don't recall the exact amount but the majority of the GH your body secretes is within the first 2-4 hours of sleep. I seem to recall doctors recommending growth deficient children to take all their GH at one time pre bed to hopefully mimic this effect. Just interested in your reasoning for the split dosage recommendation

  • Sciroxx's picture
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Simple pubmed search will show the superiority of splitting the dosage to bi-daily injection, based on recvent clinical trials for dwarfism

Indeed in the past once daily or even 3 injection per week were common, I suspect it was done from practical motives then actual clinical proofs

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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Would you mind to post a few links to these studies? I can only find one study that shows twice daily is superior to once daily and it was from 1990

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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Have looked into igf-1 and I agree it is definitely the best thing to run with GH. From what I remember it can actually stimulate the insulin receptors to some extent and will lower blood sugar. Finding a legitimate source for it is much more difficult than GH though, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read that the igf 1 serum test won't measure exogenous IGF 1 so no foolproof way to know if the IGF 1 you have is real. Even if the fasting blood sugar goes down no way to know that its not insulin or some glucose sensitizing agent in the bottle instead. Tough to rationalize spending 100's if not thousands on something I'm not 100% sure is the real deal. The insulin was only a temporary thing. I'm currently dosing the gh at 3.75iu a day so fasting blood sugar is about 90-95, thats with no insulin. Still slightly impaired glucose tolerance but not unhealthy. Havent used insulin in about 10 days and don't plan on going back on it.

  • pickle's picture
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You are in conversation with one of the best IGF sources around lol

  • Sciroxx's picture
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IGF1-lr3 is simply a different molecule then the endogenous IGF1 so can't be detected in IGF1 serum test,. Search around and learn for reliable IGF1 suppliers ;) (our IGF1 was tested bya known member "hailrazor" 3 years ago in a USA university)

More ever - the effect of real IGF1 (whether bio-identical, lr3 or DES) is quite pronounced compared to GH, this is by no means a replacement for real lab test (which I always encourage my customers to try and take), but you'll "know" you're on real IGF1. The serum glucose levels will drop as a fact as well as a first indicator.

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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Heres a interesting review article going over the mechanism of action and interactions between GH and glucose levels. Also talks about the insulin mimetic effects of igf 1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5642081/

  • Dacky's picture
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  • Dacky
  • 4 months ago

What else besides the GH and the slin were you running? Any proviron or other DHT’s?
Edit: why is your total testosterone so low?

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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  • Velociraptor232
  • 4 months ago
  • @Dacky

The 340 IGF 1 test was 4 weeks post cycle. 2 weeks after stopping Nolva. I don't think I was fully recovered yet. My natural baseline test levels are 430 so pretty low to begin with. Was not on any gear at the time. I know exogenous testosterone can increase IGF 1 levels so I'm assuming if I was fully recovered my IGF levels could've been a few ticks higher

  • MegaT883's picture
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My natural baseline test levels are 430 so pretty low to begin with.

What was your E2 level 4wks after cycle?
What did your cycle consist of and how long did your run it?
Did you run PCT and if so what was your protocol? What exactly did you take?

  • Dacky's picture
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Ok so what were you running when you were on the 15iu of GH and for the first test when on 2.5iu x 2 per day? Have you always used the Labcorp assay to test IGF-1?

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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  • Velociraptor232
  • 4 months ago
  • @Dacky

Yes, Always used the same labcorp IGF 1 test for all readings. Also never pulled the bloods on cycle because I didn't want the elevated test levels skewing the results. And I was off all serms at least 1 week prior to all tests. Based off their half life, it probably takes a few more weeks for their levels to diminish completely. I know they can negatively impact IGF 1 levels, but I was relatively consistent with how long I stopped taking them before each lab. 1-2 weeks for All tests

  • Dacky's picture
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I’m in bed and about to sleep so I’ll answer more thoroughly when I can. Suffice to say there is way too much going on here to feel confident the IGF-1 tests are reflective of what’s really going on or the quality of this GH (which I highly rate by the way). You should consider joining my experiment - https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/igf-1-testing-experimentresearch-calling-all-gh-users - you may find it illuminating and if nothing else you may get a more accurate read on what’s happening.

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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  • Velociraptor232
  • 4 months ago
  • @Dacky

Obviously alot of moving parts, I get it. Tough to draw conclusions. Then again, I don't determine the quality of ironlion's GH just from my experience. Way to many other extremely positive reviews with higher IGF 1 levels than my own. I'm not disappointed by the GH. Ironlion gave me a great deal. I'm running as much GH as I can handle sides wise and it gives me piece of mind that my connective tissues are healing at an accelerated rate. I'm getting exactly what I wanted. I appreciate the offer to join your study, I'm not currently in a position to commit to something long term but I certainly appreciate what your doing with it and look forward to seeing what we can learn

  • Dacky's picture
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Fair enough re the study. But let’s get back to your post. What are you trying to achieve here? I’m not getting it. Most come to share results that are either positive or negative and/or that they don’t understand and are looking for help troubleshooting. It seems you are doing non of these things other than sharing your particles experience and associated context. Have I understood this correctly.

If you’re actually looking for some help figuring out why you may be seeing numbers that are not quite what you were expecting then I’m happy to try and help as I believe is MegaT833 - we have both asked similar questions which you haven’t answered. I can’t promise you will like the answers as honestly you’ve made a bucket load of mistakes here and I neither you nor anyone else should be drawing any conclusions from these numbers.

Lastly you’re 28 and frankly the GH doses you’ve been running at times beggars belief - you reference being an athlete so help me understand what sort of an athlete you are and at what level you’re competing at.

  • maddogg's picture
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  • maddogg
  • 4 months ago

Wow. That’s a wicked high amount of HGH. Looks like you’ve been researching a lot since your last picture post. I got the same stuff but haven’t run it yet, finishing up something else and then I’m going to get a baseline and then test those. I’m wondering about blood sugar and insulin sensitivity because I fell like I haven’t lost much body fat on it. Usually all I have to do is put down the bottle, do intermittent fasting and workout and I drop body fat rapidly even with an unclean diet but not so much this time. Getting older every day just like everyone else, but t feels like it’s more than just that. Thanks for sharing.

  • Immortaltech's picture
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  • Immortaltech
  • 4 months ago

Now im skeptic abt my grey tops, will be pulling bloods after 3 weeks

Are u running anything beside hgh? Dht conpounds? Medicines for example which might affect liver?

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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I always pulled bloods right after pct or towards the end, about 1 - 2 weeks after stopping SERMs. Right now im on test prop, mast prop, and m1t but I didn't start that until after I pulled the labs. As far as liver values, they've always been in the normal range at the end of PCT except for this time, either my ALT or AST was like 5 points over normal which from my understanding is very minimal. Studies have shown athletes can have very elevated liver enzymes just from a hard training session. I don't drink or take anything else that stresses my liver, NSAID's etc. Also take 250mg of TUDCA a day and have taken higher dosages during cycles

  • Velociraptor232's picture
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  • Velociraptor232
  • 4 months ago

Correction pulled 570's on 15iu, not 530's