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  • switch87x's picture
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  • Edit Any ideas on why tf I would be having gyno with these labs?

  • switch87x   •   Wed, Nov 6th, '19 14:11   •   26 replies, 280 views

NOTE: Simple Mass Spectrometry is not enough to determine dosage and purity of tested substance.
Tests done with GC/MS, LC/MS/MS or HPLC methodes are considered much more reliable!

Sources: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
            

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Alright guys. I’m stumped. Any insight is appreciated if you have any ideas cuz I’m clueless.

I started using a Test 400 blend from a domestic source that is no longer as these boards. Many of you who know me will know who I’m talking about. The blend is 50mg PP, 100mg Cyp, 125mg Enan, and 125mg Decan .. all test Esters. I had been pinning 0.5mg EOD for about a month, and then went to MWF. That’s a total of 600mg per week. I’m also using Proviron 25mg Daily from UG who graciously sent this in lieu of a promo they had missed me on. Also been using Arimidex 0.5mg (pharma) daily. Labs were drawn 6 weeks in.

Now I should note I have NEVER run test this high before. My last labs from the spring while I was using sust 250 0.5ml MWF had total test around 2200. That’s the highest I’ve ever run test because I consider myself estro sensitive.

I had a very small maybe dime size lump not even noticeable under left nip from prior use. Well about 2 weeks ago I started having a big flare on the right side. I’m talking easy 2cm subareolar solid mobile mass. Sensitive to touch. It has slowly been getting worse. Not significantly but it’s definitely not getting better.

1 week prior to labs I upped my arimidex to 1mg. And started Nolva 20mg daily. My E2 was a resultant 16 as you can see. My test level is NO WHERE near where I would have expected it (contacted the source and honestly not happy with the response this is the second time I’ve tested really low on his gear). IGF is totally normal. No I didn’t test prolactin but why th would that be elevated anyways?

I’m planning to redraw in 4 weeks now that I switched to a different brand. But I’m clueless. And frustrated. Anyone heard of non estrogen or IGF mediated gyno? This is not just fat. I’m still 13% body fat right now while bulking. Heavier than I’ve ever been around 207lbs this morning

Comments

  • Dacky's picture
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  • Dacky
  • 2 weeks ago

I think Growmore has hit the nail on the hammer mate. It’s going to be the SD and it’s high affinity for the prolactin. High prolactin (or simulated in this case by the SD and then coming off it you’ve probably got some proPaxton rebound happening here) with normal levels of E2 and normal IGF-1 can cause prolactin related gyno in those sensitive to this. If there is high normal or even worse high progesterone in the mix then this is going to be even worse. The other point to note it’s not the absolute values of these hormones that really matter but the values relative to your baseline individually and to each other (ratios). Have a read of this if you want to really understand how this all works as it’s pretty complex - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK279105/

Good post in this forum a bit down on how SD causes prolactin related side effects - http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php/106850-Mike-Arnold-put-my-superdrol-gyno-worries-to-rest!

Also note your testosterone levels are rubbish for the amount of testosterone you’re running and with the Proviron binding to SHBG and the low E2 from the adex this is likely to throw ratios out even more and cause DHT to rise which can cause problems as you will see is theorised in the post I linked.

  • DfromPhilly's picture
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  • DfromPhilly
  • 2 weeks ago

I don’t have any answers on the gyno. Sounds like the time I tried NPP and everything was normal or low and it only got worse til I dropped it.

Sent you a Pm tho

  • switch87x's picture
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Word D, I just replied

  • rageracing's picture
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  • rageracing
  • 2 weeks ago

Looks like there is some 19nor mixed in that blend if you ask me.

  • switch87x's picture
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I’m trashing it and probably never using that source again. Wonder if anyone else has had issues since he left the boards..

  • GrowMore's picture
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  • GrowMore
  • 2 weeks ago

When did you drop the SD, it’s famous for giving mysterious gyno to people who have everything on lock down.

https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/comments/5z60dj/lets_discuss_how_to_stop_the_sdrol_gyno_epedemic/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

All the info you need

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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Kinda made me wonder if its undertimined actions are similar to drol. The medical community cant find the direct link to drol and gyno because it does not convert. But its believed that it must sensitize the estro receptors which raises the chances. Low dose nolva will shut down receptors. Nolva hinders igf as well but the lesser of two evils...

  • GrowMore's picture
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They’re both DHT so it’s lightly the gyno is similar. In the link I posted Dr Petes goes into some detail about it which you might find an interesting read

  • switch87x's picture
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I think I dropped it around two weeks before I drew labs. Which was probably about 4-5 days before I started noticing the gyno... I’m gonna take some time to look through that thread there’s definitely a lot there. Rebound would make sense but if my estrogen is under control and I continue the dose of AI shouldn’t there be improvement relatively quickly? Again the one thing I didn’t check is prolactin ... I have checked it in the past though during similar but not identical circumstances and it was totally normal.

  • GrowMore's picture
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In my experience 20mg of nolvadex works like magic for all kinds of gyno I’ve had. Let’s hope it’s the same for you.

  • switch87x's picture
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How long did it take for you to notice improvement? I was reading some of poor responders based on genetics/metabolic pathways.. not sure if that’s me or not cuz it’s been probably ten days now on the nolva

  • GrowMore's picture
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My gyno was because of rebound on an old test only cycle using adex it’s mostly gone but it’ll enflame when I have fluctuations so I bang 10mg of nolvadex and it starts to work after a few days and stops it in its tracks early on. It’s not SD gyno which I believe is a different kettle of fish altogether but worth a try.

  • Sam I Am's picture
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  • Sam I Am
  • 2 weeks ago

Have you lost weight? A lot of guys don’t notice it until they cut.

  • switch87x's picture
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I’m full offseason mode brother I’ve put on a little over 30 lbs from stage weight earlier this year

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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  • Rustyhooker
  • 2 weeks ago

T4 low...lump...e2 now low....im wondering if you got some tren in there. Hows the nolva doing on shrinking the lump? Pharma nolva should block all those receptors but testing prolactin woild tell a bit more. Theres a forum by j223 i believe on test raising prolactin regardless of e2. If its not him...i would beed to dig up this other cat. Its cited etc.

Your cholesterol jacked like that can cause a stroke. Being that jacked again makes me wonder if its got tren in there. Low crap test levels but magically still has punch to it. Wouldnt be first time a source did wonky things. Just thinking outside the box.

How long on cycle?

  • switch87x's picture
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Nolva hasn’t touched it but it’s not Pharma, it’s Dragon Pharma... I’ve never had problems with that brand but yeah nothing so far. Been about two weeks since onset. Started increased adex first then added nolva a week later. I know nolva can interfere with arimidex metabolism so I try to split them 12 hours apart. Hoping it starts to resolve soon.. either way redrawing labs end of the month.

I’ve been on 7.5 weeks now. No idea why my T4 is a little low but TSH being normal I’m thinking maybe I’m just converting to t3 more.. it has been at this number before but I was also running hgh then.

Also I think you know well the OG who I typically use that’s not on the boards anymore. I’d be really surprised if he had other shit in there idk but again this is the second time I haven’t tested well on his gear.

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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If its the old old source...ya he had awesome sauce back then. Lil cross on label? Something bit ya though and just gotta be proactive. With e2 at 16 the nolva should flatten ya out. Id get on a pharma promo. Just me but if ya get bit...you remember it. Lol

  • NotNatural23's picture
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  • NotNatural23
  • 2 weeks ago

Do you shave chest? Also is it by chance slightly warm and red?I had a flare up but ended up being an infection from shaving chest it went out past my areola where the ingrown hair ended up being.it felt like a hard lump went to doc and it was a infection in the duct. Also HDL is bad bro. Need to get off cycle asap and try to get those levels back to normal. HGH can cause gyno also. Also agree with level up your testosterone is underdosed by alot. I have had those test levels on 225mgs a week of cyp before.

  • switch87x's picture
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Wish it was an infection lol that’s an easier fix, but no that’s not it. No HGH because I thought last time I ran it it contributed to gyno flare.

  • Sam I Am's picture
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  • Sam I Am
  • 2 weeks ago

I think that’s the worst hdl level I’ve seen posted.

  • switch87x's picture
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I’ve seen close with friends who run Tren but their baseline is much higher than mine as well. The total and ratio is terrible for sure. Dropped the sdrol completely and gonna check lipids again end of the month to see if they recover and that’s what was responsible. Test alone won’t do that. Proviron and arimidex will drop HDL but I wouldn’t think it’d be that dramatic.

  • levelup's picture
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  • levelup
  • 2 weeks ago

How long have you been running at 600mg?
Total seems a bit low for that does...possibly cut with nd or npp
On another note...you hdl is super super low...I mean terrible
And how close to the draw did you eat?
Your insulin sensitivity is shit...maybe try to up the fats and drop the carbs for a few days to regain it

  • switch87x's picture
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6 weeks. A little low? Lol considering I pulled 2200 on 375 earlier this year I’d say so. It’s a shame but I’m probably never ordering from him again.

HDL is crazy low but about 10 days prior to lab draw I was using inj Sdrol 20mg day for two weeks. I’m sure that’s what crashed it. That or the adex I was popping like candy. HDL is usually around 25 and LDL 70.

Blood work was not fasted I ate like 45min prior to draw. Fasting glucose is usually around 80.

Main concern again though was the gyno.

  • levelup's picture
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I would probably get prolactin done

  • switch87x's picture
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Planning on it!

  • levelup's picture
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I gotta think the “test blend” is cut with a cheap compound like npp