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  • Introduction into Beginner Cycles

  • P   •   Sun, Feb 24th, '13 08:15   •   43 replies, 7385 views

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Introduction
This group is open and welcome to all beginners who are looking for advice, learning, informing and helping the community. This is a place where there is no such thing as a silly question and all viewpoints are welcomed to ensure total safety and precaution are taken when advice is offered.

We will also be throwing up opinions and new layouts open for discussion on a whole range of topics, so that's something which we can all look forward to!

Diet

Diet is key - you will read this time and time again on the forums and the reason why its mentioned so often is because it is true. AAS increases your recovery rate, but if you actually want to add some lean muscle into the mix you need to eat right. You also need to find what works best for your body - copying an IFBB pro's diet is great, but if your body doesn't respond to certain macro-nutrient ratios and wholefoods (which are high in lactose, example) then you are not optimizing your diet. Finding which foods work for you is takes time through increasing the understanding you have with your body. This will help you identify which foods you should eat at what time. It will also increase your understanding of your body's natural limit, while also understanding how your body reacts to carbs, protein and fat sources in order to reach your daily macro-nutrient intake limits.

Regardless of how much AAS compounds you pump yourself with, without proper nutrition the simple maintenance of the muscle mass you've worked hard over in the gym and resting will deplete. Therefore a subjective understanding of pre training nutrition in addition to post training nutrition should be fully understood to ensure your body is kept in an anabolic environment.

Nutrition Basics for Growth and Fat loss and YOUR Body

The lack of nutrition can make your cycle or training almost non-productive. I see a lot of guys talk about cycling and training but not too much on nutrition. Knowing the right foods is the most important thing when cycling on and OFF. I stress OFF because this is where the ball is dropped after the PCT. Knowing your body and the right foods to eat is the key to any successful training regimen with or without steroids.

Stats

Age: ?
Height: ?
Weight: ?
BF: ?

Cycle History: ?

Goals: ?

Your personal stats is the most important thing when it comes to running AAS compounds. If you visit any cycle log or forum post asking for cycle advice within the eroids forum you will always see a member ask for stats such as age, height, weight and body fat percentage to determine whether this person is eligible to take steroids or not.

Comments

  • NewTony1234's picture
  • BASIC
  • 5
 
  • NewTony1234
  • 2 months ago

Age: 38
Height: 5'11
Weight: 207
BF: 15%

Cycle History: 1st cycle a year ago was 12 weeks of test E 500mg/wk + anadrol 50mg for about 5 weeks. Got massive pumps from anadrol, but lost all that after coming off it. Test E resulted in negligible gains. Added 5lbs, but noticeably gained fat too. Diet was clean 3200 calories while on gear. 40% of calories from carbs, 40% from protein, 20% fat. Workout was 4 day split, hitting each muscle group 1x/week. 4x10reps. I didn't track for progressives overload like i should have, now im logging each workout hardcore to make sure i increase.

Goals: pack on muscle size, mostly need arm/shoulder cuz they're smaller than the rest of my body. I still have body fat to lose, so I'll keep the diet clean. Currently not on gear, eating 2700 calories, seems to be about right for not getting fat, and some strength gains. Im unsure how much to increase once on gear, maybe 3000 total?

Current off gear diet:
Fat 63g
Carb 262g
Protein 230g

My new workout is 5 day/wk, hitting each muscle group 2x per week.

Workout plan:

Day 1 upper body
Day 2 lower body
Day 3 rest
Day 4 push
Day 5 pull
Day 6 legs
Dat 7 rest

-Upper workout
Bench press. 3x 4-6
Row. 3x 6-8
Overhead press. 3x 8-10
Lat pull. 3x 10-12
Face pull. 3x 10-15

lower workout
Squat. 3x 10-12
Deadlift. 3x 6-8
Leg extension 3x10
Calf raise. 3x10

-Push workout
Incline dumbbell press 3x 8-10
Flat dumbbell press. 3x 8-10
Lateral raise, cable. 4x 10-12
Overhead rope ext. 3x 12-15
Bar tricep pressdown. 3x 8-10

-Pull workout
Pull ups. 3x 8-10
Seated Row. 3x 8-10
Rev pec dec. 3x 8-10
Face pulls. 3x 8-10
Incline dbell curl 3x 8-10
Hammer curl. 3x 8-10

leg workout
Squats
Lunges
Calf raise

Here's the cycle im considering, also im getting gear from a different supplier this time. Experienced advice is welcomed... as i admit, I'm learning about gear, and this is the only place i know to ask.

Wk 1-5 30mg dianabol
Wk 1-12 test e 250mg (500/wk)
Wk 1-10 deca 200mg (400/wk)

Arimidex as needed? .5mg eod
Nolva as needed 20mg eod?
Caber as needed? .5mg 2x/wk

Wk 13-15 off
Wk 16-19 pct

3 weeks of PCT:
Day 1 Clomid 250mg + Nolvadex 60mg
Following 10 days Clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 10 days Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg

  • Pcushion's picture
  • ADV
  • 443
 

Nice write up man. I usually don't take time to respond to beginner post these days but you have put forth a good bit of effort here. So....

Your workout design is interesting to say the least. If you do not like the results its yielding swap to one body part a day 5 days a week i.e. chest,back,legs,shoulders,arms it will put on great size.

Drop the dbol and deca. Dbol isn't needed here. Deca the ester is too long and need to run it 16+weeks even the Eq would be better suited for fat loss and quality mass gain.

My proposed cycle: Test E 500mg/wk, mast 500-600mg/wk for 16 weeks

Don't worry about AI masteron should take care of any estrogen issue is absolute necessary take nolva 20mg/day also. Caber will never be needed if you control E2 caber use is fueled by broscience. You can start pct two weeks after last injection but run your pct 6 weeks. My pct would be exemestane 12.5mg eod 6 weeksw...clomid 100mg/day 3 weeks then 50mg day 2 weeks then 25mg last week. Hcg 250iu 2x a week for entire cycle. Stop HCG last week of pct.

  • NewTony1234's picture
  • BASIC
  • 5
 

@Pcushion I really appreciate the time and info. Im trying to make sure im successful on this one and not wasting my time and money.

You gave me several new things to read up on now. And caber is really hard to find. The one site i found that offers it, is out of stock. I guess you're right about it not being necessary, or it'd be easier to find.

Im not familiar with exemestane at all, so I'll do some reading about it. Sounds like a good cycle that you recommended. Sent you a friend request. Really appreciate the experience being passed.

  • Pcushion's picture
  • ADV
  • 443
 

Glad to help anyone who wants to help themselves. I am sure caber isn't needed man. Unless your nipples are leaking your fine besides excess E2 has to be present to prolactin to be problematic. Exemestane aka aromasin is essential for a good pct. Be safe and smart.

  • Tyguy615's picture
  • BASIC
  • 1
 
  • Tyguy615
  • 8 months ago

Wanting to begin. Thinking about dbol and sustanon. Is this a good choice? Please fill me in.
27
5'9
170
20%

Goal is to bulk up. I'm ecto-meso and a hard gainer. I want to maintain my temper and fear hair loss. Suggestions please.

  • BosephBlue's picture
  • BASIC
  • 1
 
  • BosephBlue
  • 11 months ago

Looking for info on starting first cycle.

31
5'7
170lbs
BF 20%
No cycle history.

Goals: looking to get leaner and improve muscle mass. Okay with slow gains, just don't want any hardcore side effects.

  • heath337's picture
  • BASIC
  • -5
 
  • heath337
  • 5 years ago

I just started a test e only cycle last week I shot 500 mg in my ass at once. I Ben seeing most guys do it twice a week at 250 a pop. Does it matter how u do it? Is my way OK or not?

  • sic26's picture
  • ADV
  • 481
 
  • sic26
  • 5 years ago

Always great to read up again

  • VladProdigy's picture
  • BASIC
  • 4
 
  • VladProdigy
  • 5 years ago

Great article. I agree that nutrition/diet is perhaps even more important than AAS, and definitely so before you start cycling. This why information such as what you give in this article is so important for people to have access to when they first begin researching and learning about bodybuilding.-- I would give you a thumbs Up, but the feature doesn't seem to work for my account, so please accept it in words instead.

  • Thumbs Up! *
  • jakester17's picture
  • BASIC
  • 1
 
  • jakester17
  • 6 years ago

Whats the the bf % you would recommdend to actaully start a cycle???

  • WINNING's picture
  • ADV
  • 509
 
  • WINNING
  • 6 years ago

Which test should I use for a beginner cycle. Personally im a sus man but, I see alot of people prefer test c or prop. Which one would be better for gains and which one is the cleanest?

  • B52-BODY's picture
  • REG
  • 38
 
  • B52-BODY
  • 7 years ago

noted -=

  • onlybuster's picture
  • BASIC
  • 1
 
  • onlybuster
  • 7 years ago

P is it a must to use hcg during pct

  • P's picture
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No. i never use hCG in my PCT.

  • onlybuster's picture
  • BASIC
  • 1
 
  • onlybuster
  • 7 years ago
  • @P

thanks

  • Catalyst's picture
  • EXP
  • 2592
 
  • Catalyst
  • 7 years ago
  • @P

x2 - Never needed to use it at all!

  • ezmacc's picture
  • REG
  • 21
 
  • ezmacc
  • 7 years ago

This is the best thing that I have found on this site yet. Thanks P for taking the time to really teach us something. I feel like I should be paying you for this.

  • P's picture
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No problem at all brother, knowledge should be free and easily accessible, that's all im trying to do here.

  • tmanusmc09's picture
  • REG
  • 35
 
  • tmanusmc09
  • 7 years ago

Those who use test p as a taper
does the test p help you lose water weight and lean out whater fat gained if diest is on point
For example ill run
1-12 test e 500 mg/wk pin 250 mg mon & thurs
13-15 Test p 100 mg EOD
ADEX .5 EOD wks 3-15 may tweak a little depends on estrogen lvls
PCT start wk16 ends 19
Clomid 100 100 50 50
Nolva 40 40 20 20
im 22 YO
6' 2"
215
13-16% BF im leaning more twords 13 % but others may think different
ALL natty Thus Far
LIfts 1rep MAX
Barbell bench- 315
Squat- 450
Deadlift- 365

Projected Diet
4000gs+ cals A day
300-350gs protein a day
400 Carbs a Da

  • P's picture
  • BAN
  • 406
 

Your diet can make you lose water and also since the propionate ester carries less molecular weight than an enanthate ester.

I wrote an article about this in a little more detail...Ester Value

" the main variable in comparing esters is their affinity towards water retention, and at what rates the sub-cutaneous water retention is experienced. Experienced AAS users will strongly agree that the water retention experienced through running a long-estered variant such as testosterone enanthate in comparison to testosterone propionate (whereby the main compound in each product is testosterone) is significantly higher. Therefore, these experienced AAS users will tend to use the longer estered variants in their off-season and the short ester variants towards pre-contest preparations."

Also a few points about your cycle;

  • IMO, your a little too young to cycle.
  • Add in aromasin in to your PCT to increase your recovery rate and speed.
  • With aromasin in your PCT drop nolva down to 20/20/10/10
  • budzang's picture
  • LVL1
  • 85
 
  • budzang
  • 7 years ago

Hey P, do you have to refrigerate the test c? Or can it sit at room temp. My Dr. keeps his in the fridge at his office. Not sure what the proper handling procedures are. Thx in advance

  • P's picture
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  • 406
 

I keep all my AAS compounds in a locked safe away from heat and water. Put your peptides in the fridge.

  • budzang's picture
  • LVL1
  • 85
 
  • budzang
  • 7 years ago

I'm 44 and have been working out for at least 13 years and have built up a lot of strength and muscle without any steroid use at all. My workouts have been sucking for the last couple years, my sex drive plummeted, my balls shriveled up, and I felt like general crap. I did a blood test a few months back and found my total testosterone was like 174 and my free testosterone was 25 and was way below normal. So my Dr has me coming in about every 3 weeks or so for a 2ml (400mg) shot of depo testosterone (cypionate). I am probably going to have to be on this stuff for the rest of my life now. He can be a bit of a prick sometimes so I am trying to research this stuff out because I don't think he knows what he is doing. I'm about 5'8" 210lbs. I'm already pretty bulky, but I need to lean out a little bit and get some more energy. I would like to find some people who are willing to give some advice on their regimens and minimize the side affects from testosterone replacement therapy. I have bad acne so I'm taking 50000IU Vitamin A, 10 g B5 and it seems to help on reducing oil production. I probably need to be on some sort of estrogen blocker so I don't get moobs. I already see them starting to form. It has been 3 weeks since my last shot and I am due for some test cyp. I don't know if that is a good regimen 2ml every 3 weeks. It should probably be on a regular basis like 2 x a week or even daily. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  • budzang's picture
  • LVL1
  • 85
 

age=44
height=5'8/9ish
weight=210lb
body fat = not sure. 34 waist, 44 reg jacket.
cycle history = no cycles, only 3 months of depo testosterone at around 2ml (400mg) every 3 weeks.
goals = energy, focus, lean out. I think I am plenty big enough. Maybe increase strength. My nut sack has always been problematic. Probably the reason why I have T problems. I need some hCG.

  • P's picture
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Thanks for providing the information in an easy to understand format.

Ok, so you're a TRT/HRT patient (Testosterone/Hormone Replacement Therapy), which means that you have the option of blasting and cruising with no PCT.

I found this information, which you provided me with quite shocking. your doc is giving you 400mg of test e every 3 weeks, which works out at ~133.33mg of test c per week. Now since this is test c and not TNE (Test No Ester) the cypionate ester carries some molecular weight with the compound. When an ester is attached to a compound the ester makes up a percentage of the total weight of the compound - for example, testosterone cypionate contains 69.9% testosterone per mg, whereas the cypionate ester makes up 30.1% of the total weight. However, testosterone propionate contains 83.7 mg of testosterone, per mg and its ester weight is 16.3% of the compound. Additionally, since shorter esters release the parent compound into the human bloodstream at a faster rate, gains are recognised at an increased speed. So, since you are administering 133.33mg of test c per week, the actual amount of testosterone that your body is receiving = <93.2mg per week (figure derived from 133.33 x 0.699) See Ester Value. Now you'll see why this is surprising to me. Your baseline testosterone levels found that your total testosterone levels were 174 (units?) which is being supplemented by a far lower dose of <93.2mg/wk (on the basis that the units are the same).

Ok, so now we've established where you are, now lets establish where you want to be. You said that you are content with your size and would now like to lean up. The number one thing people must realise is that muscle is muscle and the fat which surrounds your muscle dictates whether its 'bulk' or 'cut/lean' - so im sure you can tell from this statement that diet dictates your physical body fat.

Diet

Diet is key - you will read this time and time again on the forums and the reason why its mentioned so often is because it is true. AAS increases your recovery rate, but if you actually want to add some lean muscle into the mix you need to eat right. You also need to find what works best for your body - copying an IFBB pro's diet is great, but if your body doesn't respond to certain macro-nutrient ratios and wholefoods (which are high in lactose, example) then you are not optimizing your diet. Finding which foods work for you is takes time through increasing the understanding you have with your body. This will help you identify which foods you should eat at what time. It will also increase your understanding of your body's natural limit, while also understanding how your body reacts to carbs, protein and fat sources in order to reach your daily macro-nutrient intake limits.

Regardless of how much AAS compounds you pump yourself with, without proper nutrition the simple maintenance of the muscle mass you've worked hard over in the gym and resting will deplete. Therefore a subjective understanding of pre training nutrition in addition to post training nutrition should be fully understood to ensure your body is kept in an anabolic environment.

Nurition Basics for Growth and Fat loss and YOUR Body

The lack of nutrition can make your cycle or training almost non-productive. I see a lot of guys talk about cycling and training but not too much on nutrition. Knowing the right foods is the most important thing when cycling on and OFF. I stress OFF because this is where the ball is dropped after the PCT. Knowing your body and the right foods to eat is the key to any successful training regimen with or without steroids.

See Pre-Cycle Protocol

With regards to your side effectsn you need to have an AI on hand.

AI: Aromatase Inhibitor: AI: as needed or necessary?

What is an AI?

An AI is an aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase is an enzyme whose sole responsibility is to synthesize estrogen hormones – estrone and estradiol – from androgens via a process called aromatization. Because our bodies are physiologically programmed to maintain a state of balance – homeostasis – aromatase enzymes are synthesized in response to elevated androgen levels. Therefore and in general, the higher the level of adrogens, the higher the level of aromatase enzymes. The higher the level of enzymes, the greater the potential for hyperestrogenism (excess estrogen). AI’s act to inhibit the activity of the enzyme, thereby providing regulation of estrogen levels.

High Estrogen Symptoms

• Fluid retention and weight gain
• Fluctuations in body temperature
• Adult acne
• Depression, apathy, irritability and aggression due to a hormonal imbalance
• Decrease libido or impotence
• Prostate issues (inflammation or cancer)
• Gyno

Why an AI

Taking into consideration that our androgen levels are well in excess while on cycle, the fact arises that the potential for excess estrogen dramatically increases. By allowing estrogen levels to rise uncontrollably, we are opening ourselves up to a host of symptoms associated with high estrogen. Outside of the risks of gyno, there is also the concern of sexual dysfunction. How many times do we see comments or reviews where a lesser experienced user is claiming bunk gear due to decreased of libido? Often times digging a little deeper into the cycle log or history of this individual, we will find an improper cycle and AI issues. Although some of the symptoms are minor, with gyno and libido issues being the greatest concern, there is no need IMO to experience any of these sides if they can be avoided. Considering that once you have gyno, the only way to get rid of it is through surgical removal, we should realize that these sides are much easier to prevent than they are to reverse. The AI’s main role here is to achieve greater hormonal balance and provide control for the user so as to avoid the occurrence of sides.

One aspect that I want to add to this is the effects estrogen has on the gonadotropins – LH & FSH. Studies have proven that estrogen provides negative feedback towards the synthesis and secretion of both LH & FSH. This is detrimental to the overall objective of PCT, which is to reboot natty systems. These gonadotropins main role here is to stimulate production of testosterone. If estrogen levels are elevated and left unchecked, outside of the listed side effects, the suppression of the gonadotropins will compromise the goal of PCT. Therefore, it is imperative that balance be achieved in order to not only prevent side effects but to also allow for a proper PCT and reset.

Types of AI’s

There are two types of AI’s:

• Type 1 (irreversible steroidal inhibitors)
• Type 2 (non-steroidal inhibitors)

Type 1 inhibitors form a permanent and deactivating bond with the aromatase enzyme, so it never lets go even when the drug is discontinued or its active life expires. Type 2 inhibitors inhibit the synthesis of estrogen via reversible competition for the aromatase enzyme, which means that it binds reversibly. An example of an irreversible inhibitor would be Aromasin (exemestane). Examples of reversible inhibitors, or Type 2, would be * Letrozole (Femara) or Anastrozole (Arimidex)*.

Below is an excerpt from one of GS’s threads that does a great job of explaining the two types and their modes of action:

Aromatase Inhibitors come in 2 types. Type 1 and Type 2. First Type 1 AI's bind by a process called hydroxylation; this hydroxylation process produces an unbreakable covalent bond between the inhibitor and the enzyme protein. Now the enzyme is permanently blocked even after all of the inhibitor is removed and can only be resumed by new enzyme synthesis. Type 2 Inhibitors on the other hand function all the same in their ability to reduce the binding process of the enzyme and the receptor. Except once the drug is discontinued or the concentration of the drug is sparse enough it is possible for the enzyme to seperate itself from the Inhibitor and eventually will allow renewed competion between the Inhibitor and the Enzyme for the receptor site. Aromasin is a type 1 AI and once it does what it's purpose is we don't need to continue use. Letro and Adex are Type 2 Ai's and the success of those drugs are continigent on the Doses and protocol of which we use them. Once you stop them you expose yourself to an Estrogen rebound. Now having said all of that there are also many other reason to why Aromasin use is beneficial to a Bodybuilder. One is Arimidex/Anastrozole Decreases IGF-1 18% while Aromasin/Exemestane Increases IGF-1 28%. Another is Aromasin is also known to decrease estrogen between 90-95% while boosting Endogenous Testosterone by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20% (12)…SHBG is that nasty enzyme that binds to testosterone and renders it useless for building muscle

*The article can be read here: http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/pct-and-aromasin

How much AI?

This answer can be tricky, because some degree of trial and error must take place to find your individual “sweet spot”. In order to do this, the following recommended doses should be administered during your cycle, and then blood tests must be run to determine where your estradiol levels are presently. This data will guide you in determining what, if any, tweaks are appropriate.

Aromasin: 12.5mg EOD
Arimidex: 0.25mg E3D
Letro: ????

My personal preference is Aromasin. Adex will suffice in terms of controlling enzyme activity during cycle. Because the bond Adex forms is reversible, it can cause the bound enzymes to become released and renew competition once the drug has been discontinued or its active life has expired. For this reason, IMO, Adex should be tapered off and Aromasin introduced leading into PCT. I am also more fanatical about ED dosing of Aromasin vs EOD. With a drug half-life of 27 hrs, a lower dose of 6.25mg ED would IMO yield a more stable and better sustained level. Once again, blood tests are a must for confirming the individuals “sweet spot”.

Letro, once again, should be used in the case of an emergency such as gyno flares. Unfortunately, I am unable to find a solid or consistent recommended dosing schedule for Letro. I have found doses ranging from 0.5-2.5mg ED, as well as doses being administered as frequently as every 2 days. Letro does have a half-life of 2 days. Hopefully, someone with a bit more experience can elaborate on this aspect for us. One thing that I can say about Letro is that it will kill your estrogen. Because estrogen is active in the breast tissue during your gyno flares, eradication of the hormone will cause suppression of the symptom. With this in mind, you can and should expect to experience the symptoms of low estrogen (see below).

Now, keeping all of this in mind, I arrive at my final point:

TOO MUCH AI IS DETRIMENTAL AS WELL!!

The goal with incorporating an AI is to regulate the enzyme’s activity so as to avoid hyperestrogenism, not completely suppress it. Some estrogen is needed for normal physiological functions. Just like too much estrogen can lead to a host of side effects, so too can too little estrogen. Following the recommended dosages and running your blood work is key to achieving balance in this regard.

Low Estrogen Symptoms:

• Fatigue
• Weight gain
• Hot flashes and night sweats
• Depression, apathy, irritability and aggression due to a hormonal imbalance
• Insomnia or restless sleep
• Headaches
• Low libido or impotence
• Stiffness or joint pain
• Anxiety
• Heart palpitations
• Adult acne

So, guys, avoid adopting the mentality that an AI is good to have in the event of side occurences. One thing we cannot avoid without the use of an ancillary is the physiological function of the enzyme. Sides will occur; it's just a matter of time. These sides and symptoms are much easier to prevent than they are to reverse.

Here's when I dose AI / PCT: Dosing Protocol;

-AI's > Aromasin: In the Morning
-PCT > Clomid: Throughout the day
-PCT > Nolva: At Night

Why

Free testosterone has reached a peak in the late morning until around mid-day when the sun has risen, this is why you wake up with 'morning wood'); so to capitalise upon the daily peaks in your free testosterone, I dose my aromasin in the morning. This will prevent any peaks in my estrogen throughout the day (since its half life is ~27 hours) and it will also further increase the amount of free testosterone in my system, since aromasin removes the binded testosterone from your sex hormone binging globulin (SHBG).

I dose my clomid throughout the day, because clomid is highly surpressive, it gets me emotional if i take a high dose all at once. Also i want to keep my blood levels as stable as possible to prevent any further sides.

My nolvadex dose is taken before i go to bed at night, since this is when estrogen is peaked in the human body. Nolvadex is an anti-estrogen, so while im sleeping, the estrogen is under control, which also aids my testosterone peaks the next morning.

Cycle recommendations

Week 1-12 Test C 500mg/wk
Week 1-12 Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD (increase dosage if sides appear)
Week 13-14 Test P 100mg/EOD
PCT (Begin PCT 3 days after last test p shot)
Aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25
Nolvadex 20/20/10/10
Clomid 100/100/50/50

  • budzang's picture
  • LVL1
  • 85
 
  • budzang
  • 7 years ago
  • @P

I found some good info in 'The Old Bastards Group' LOL

  • budzang's picture
  • LVL1
  • 85
 
  • budzang
  • 7 years ago
  • @P

Killer info. Thx a bunch. Can you explain a bit about the blast and cruise approach with no PCT for TRT patients?. Would there be any breaks at all in these blast/cruise cycles, i.e, no supplementation during breaks? I suspect not since I am a TRT patient. I would suppose there would be some minimal amount during the break period so I don't fall off the edge of a cliff. Not sure.

So let me make sure I understand correctly. So, for me, a starter cycle recommendation as you stated above for a TRT patient would be as follows:

week 1 - 12 week blast on Test Cyp 500mg/wk with Aromasin 12.5 EOD (increase dosage if sides appear) I am already prone to acne anyway as I had it really bad growing up. My acne is cystic and originates well in the dermis layer by over active sebum glands. I was on accutane 3 times in high school. It is the hardest core acne treatment there is. I'm not sure AI would address this condition fully. It is definitely worth a shot.

week 13-14 on Test P 100 mg/EOD (would this be the cruise time?)

As far as PCT recommendation, I thought you mentioned no PCT. Or if you meant to recommend PCT on the cycle, then how many weeks of PCT on the Aromasin/Nolvadex/Clomid? 4 weeks? Would this be weeks 15-18? Now what do we do after? Repeat the cycle? Or take some down time? I would image to just start the cycle all over again. Because I know my T production is pretty much gone. Not sure.

  • P's picture
  • BAN
  • 406
 
  • From my experiences, if anything, an AI would increase your chances of acne. Accutane works but is only worth taking if you can control the sides.

  • Blast is to increase the concentration of steroidal compounds in your body.
    Cruise is to return and maintain TRT/HRT hormonal levels.

  • The test prop would be used in the transfer period between your blast and cruise to make sure your blood levels are as stable as possible which would reduce sides. It is used as a taper from high steroidal dosages to low.

  • Since you're on TRT, there's no need for PCT. A PCT gets your balls working again to produce testosterone, which is counterproductive since you are already supplementing yourself with testosterone from an external source (TRT).

This is what you do;

Week 1-10 - Test C 200mg/wk (This is your cruise period)
Week 11-22 - Test C 500mg/wk (This is your blast period)
Week 23-24 - Test P 100mg/EOD (This is your taper to return you safely from your blast to a cruise)
Week 25-37 - Test C 200mg/wk (You are now back to your cruising period)

Add in your AI throughout the cycle. No PCT. You can change your blast once you are comfortable with this protocol and add more compounds/vary the dosages.

  • budzang's picture
  • LVL1
  • 85
 

I couldn't agree more about diet. I am pretty solid day to day on my diet. In my 3 months on test cyp, I've gained 10lbs, and dropped an inch in the waist. Nothing hardcore. Just some cardio, and high rep, low weight. Just my normal workout routine. Amazing what a little testosterone will do.

  • anon
 
  • Anonymous
  • 7 years ago

Hey p i think this may well be my new go to forum for advice! Its such a hassle writing cycle posts and having to adjust them everytime a 'pro' gives u advice and then demotes karma for not listening to their advice lol!

Soo.. As a beginner i was hoping to stack

Test E 500 / Tren E 200 / test250,deca200 :D

Thoughts?