• Doss's picture
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  • Beginner Cycle 1 or 2: Test E with Prop taper

  • Doss   •   Sun, Aug 25th, '13 10:57   •   27 replies, 4076 views

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I can't emphasize enough about the importance of providing stability with your dosing schedules. With a half life of 10.5 days on Enanthate (you will find conflicting information regarding half lifes everywhere), a single 250mg injection will be at half strength at 10.5 days. That's a drop of 125. Now taking into consideration the compounded plasma levels from the multiple injections, as well as the half life, we arrive at the progressive drops in plasma levels once injections have ceased. These sudden drops in your hormonal balance, can yeild a host of side affects. This cycle is designed to offset set the sudden decreases due to the fading enanthate, and provide for a more gradual decrease leading into PCT.

It's called the "prop taper". The week following the last long-ester pin, you introduce the short-ester prop at a dose of 100mg EOD. Because of the relatively short life the prop ester provides, injections must be administered much more frequently. Likewise, the release into the blood stream is more rapidly than that of the longer esters. Therefore, you get an uptick in plasma test as the enanthate is fading out. PCT starts 3 days after last prop pin.

When it comes to EOD pinning, please click HERE to refer to the thread on pin sizes for beginners prior to starting.

For clarification on AI's, please click HERE

Any other questions, feel free to ask here on thru PM.

P.S.

The AI can be started as soon as day 1, if you choose. For some people that is more beneficial. The exogenous test being pinned will be susceptible to aromatase (even with the AI), so stable e2 levels can be achieved sooner this way. However, the guidelines above are set at a point where e2 levels begin to build up to higher within the normal range (10-50 ng/dl). Therefore, it is recommended to start your AI no later than this point in order to keep e2 from climbing out of range. Sooner won't hurt.

Personally, I believe it's more important for the beginner to wait until week 3 to start. This is so that they can experience the mild sides they get when e2 fluctuates; I.e., acne, body temps, sleep disturbances, etc. this way, they can learn their body better and see the sides subside as the AI takes control. To me, that is important.

WeekTest ETest PAromasinClomidNolva
1500mg
2500mg
3500mg6.25-12.5 ED
4500mg6.25-12.5 ED
5500mg6.25-12.5 ED
6500mg6.25-12.5 ED
7500mg6.25-12.5 ED
8500mg6.25-12.5 ED
9500mg6.25-12.5 ED
10500mg6.25-12.5 ED
11500mg6.25-12.5 ED
12500mg6.25-12.5 ED
13100 EOD6.25-12.5 ED
1475 EOD6.25-12.5 ED
1550 EOD6.25-12.5 ED
1612.5 ED100 ED20 ED
1712.5 ED100 ED20 ED
186.25 ED50 ED10 ED
196.25 ED50 ED10 ED

Comments

  • TheBlackKnight's picture
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  • TheBlackKnight
  • 2 years ago

Isn't the AI dosage in this rather excessive?

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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It can be. Id do bloods week 4 and adjust as/if needed.

Aro has 3hr window in males. It is strong and suicidal as well.

All that can be done in basic layouts is safety guidelines. My first cycle was 300mg pharma test. I gained a ton of good mass.

  • TheBlackKnight's picture
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Hey thanks for the answer Rusty! It definitely makes sense to play safe.

I've been thinking 300-350mg for cycle one, since that range seems to be what you more experienced guys recommend for the best gear-to-result ratio but reading in this group has given me some more research to do with tapers and things like that.

So it looks like I'll use my second horomone panel on week 4. I should be getting my pre bloods back any day now (I had a horomone screen done for other reasons, figured it would work for pre bloods)

Appreciate you looking out, hell your comments have given me quite a few good laughs and some good insight, really do appreciate what y'all do here this site has been an amazing learning tool.

  • woody51's picture
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  • woody51
  • 5 years ago

shit i did not even venture in to this group yet thanks i did, thanks rusty!

  • Whitetrash's picture
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  • Whitetrash
  • 5 years ago

Exactly what I was looking for! I planned a test e 500 12 week cycle with a two week break before starting pct but I was hoping to avoid a long transition. I asked about a prop taper on the forum and got to hear about some other users experiences. All very helpful. This breaks it down great, thanks!

  • fast_lane1588's picture
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  • fast_lane1588
  • 5 years ago

I currently have Adex on hand and am unable to get Aromasin at this time. If I was running this cycle and doing .25mg EOD would I still run the same PCT as posted above or would I need to up the Nolva to 40/40/20/20. Would I run the Adex through PCT like you do with Aromasin? Thanks!

  • Doss's picture
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No. You do not want to run adex thru pct. Ideally, you want to bridge adex with aromasin due to the way adex bonds with aromatase enzyme, which leads to estro rebound once the drug is stopped.

  • fast_lane1588's picture
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  • fast_lane1588
  • 5 years ago
  • @Doss

Turns out the place I order from has it in 25mg, I know this is a very beginner question but is it an issue to half the pills to get the 12.5mg? I read on another forum that you can't guarantee you're getting the proper dosage, but if you're taking the other half the next day you're getting a full 25mg ever two days right?

  • Jorg88's picture
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  • Jorg88
  • 6 years ago

Can I go for Test prop only? I want to cut off and not to pull water into my body

  • Doss's picture
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If you wanna keep the water down, then keep your AI in check. A lot of the water retention properties come from estrogen activity. Keep in mind that prop has a much higher aromatization rate than does the longer esters.

Also, you can add cardio to the routine on top of clean diet. If it's your first cycle, you're not gonna like the frequent pinning and pip.

  • Lipht's picture
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  • Lipht
  • 6 years ago

This is a sweet layout. I didn't want do start with 500 tho, I was going to go with 250.......thoughts?. Is the test prop taper in this layout still ok with that dose?

  • Doss's picture
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I don't necessarily disagree with that dose. Mind if I ask how old you are, and what you're hoping to accomplish with your cycle

As for the prop, I really need to revise my layouts. These were thrown up a long time ago. I've since modified how I run them. Better I think..

  • Jerome F's picture
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  • Jerome F
  • 6 years ago
  • @Doss

I'm currently running this cycle, currently in week9 so getting ready to run the P taper. What have you modified?

  • Doss's picture
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If you're in week 9, you've still got a month before it's time to start the taper.

What all are you running? Exactly what is outlined up top, or something different?

  • Jerome F's picture
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  • Jerome F
  • 6 years ago
  • @Doss

Exactly as above except AI is Adex at .25mg e3d. PCT will be as outlined, and will be switching to Aromasin in PCT. Actually in week 10 not 9, just wanted to have a plan on the taper. after my last pin (which will be on a Thursday) how soon do I pin the P? I assume that I wait a week...just want to be sure.

Thanks

  • Doss's picture
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I usually wait until the day of my normal shot the following week.

  • Lipht's picture
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  • Lipht
  • 6 years ago
  • @Doss

I bet its a 10 week cycle. Thats what most guys around here do, since the vials come as 10mls. I'm going to have to use that "other" stuff we discussed, at the end cycle, or get something new bc I only got 10mls coming. Watch out, no stats.

  • Lipht's picture
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  • Lipht
  • 6 years ago
  • @Doss

I'm 32. I'm hoping to gain mass and bulk up from what I think is my plateau. I wrote a thread explaining the situation I almost got into, in the beginners cycle.

  • Doss's picture
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That's strange... I thought that was my group. I normally get notifications when something's posted there.

  • Lipht's picture
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  • Lipht
  • 6 years ago
  • @Doss

Idk man. was kind of disappointed I haven't gotten a response lol. Now I know why. Let me throw you a PM.

  • crazymofo's picture
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  • crazymofo
  • 6 years ago

Bump.

  • potty's picture
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  • potty
  • 6 years ago

Is the point of the prop taper to keep stable test levels while the test e fades out?

If so, then wouldn't you want to ramp up the test prop, starting with a lower dosage and increasing until the test e has almost entirely faded, then drop the prop and call it done?

  • Deadlifter85's picture
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  • Deadlifter85
  • 6 years ago

This actually crossed my mind while walking my dogs this morning, but I had no idea how to do it. Awesome to see it layed out here plain and simple. Thanks!
Do you think its something to consider for a first cycle, or wait until the second one. I havent started yet, or even ordered anything for that matter.

  • anon
 
  • Anonymous
  • 7 years ago

Thanks for the cycle info.

The link to AI doesnt work tho?

You think first cycle should be Prop taper and not Prop front loading?

I got my first cycle kit hoping to start at beginning of year if not sooner and the advice I got was to front load the prop.

Still working on lowering my BF% and my high cholesterol before I consider starting.

Thanks again for the post bro. +++

  • Doss's picture
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Thanks. I'll take a look at it when I get home

  • anon
 

FR sent.

Ready to learn :-)

  • Doss's picture
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Accepted. Hit me up anytime.