• irongame427's picture
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  • Gh for muscle

  • irongame427   •   Wed, Jan 11th, '17 09:01   •   22 replies, 682 views

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Needs some new protocols. I've been running gh consistently for idk 3 years now and honestly it's really not doing much for me anymore, this is pure pharm grade gh at 10ius on cycle and usually 5ius off. I've been reading about people blasting high doses 3 days a week. They take their weekly total and divide it by 3 shots and blast it on training days. This is purely for muscle gain nothing else and that's what I'm after when spending this kinda money, not trying to pay out to ass for growth to stay a tiny bit leaner or "anti aging" when I'm hardly even again since I'm only 27. I know insulin is the key to make gh into a muscle builder and I've ran it before for short periods of time, never made it a full 4 week cycle it's just a pain in the ass. Made it like 2 weeks once, then once in a while I take some on a weak body part day but I don't think I have the muscle maturity/density or at the level to use it. I believe there's an order of operations one needs to follow to build the ultimate physique. This is really for the guys who are trying to compete at a high level, attain freak status as a gym rat or just do things the right way but not get freaky big, in that case step 4 is not necessary.
1) train natty for a few years, learn to eat train focus on compounds build a good natural base of strength and muscle and tendon strength.
2) run gear for a number of years and push that until progress is very slow. I definitely did not exhaust Anabolic's before moving onto growth, just didn't know. but I don't think this is as detrimental to progress as like if I wouldn't have spent the time training natty that I did, but none the less I probably should have waited until about now to start running growth.
3) add growth and run that with gear for idk a few years and push that as far as you can
4) lastly, at this point one should already be a fuckijg freak, very advanced level of muscular developement, extreme muscle density and maturity, and this last step brings you from freak to cartoon character. But I've noticed when people use insulin to soon, before they have the density muscle maturity and years of training behind them they look soft no matter what. Even after they diet down to 4% bf. Phil Heath comes to mind. Dude was playing D1 basketball in 01 at like 175lbs 10-12 % bf and in fucking what 03-04? He was a pro bodybuilder. Philsulina. Doesn't have that hard grainy look of Dorian, kevin, nasser, even a few guys from our era like Dennis wolf, he's the one dude who brings 90s like conditioning to the stage, not the bloated faces of Kai Phil and all these other guys.

Man if I only followed my own advice I'd be a great bodybuilder.

So how do we make hgh anabolic? The only way I've noticed any additional muscle growth from gh is big doses either pre or post workout or both, and right before bed. Small doses all day does fuck all for muscle growth, only good for fat burning and if one is running insulin with it.

So anyone tried this 3 day a week blast approach? If I'm at 70ius ew I'd cut it to 60 and go 20ius on training days Monday Wednesday Friday. 10ius either pre workout or post probably pre so my igf-1 levels are sky high by the time post workout comes around, then split the other 10ius into either 5ius am 5pm or 3.33 am 3.33 post and 3.33 pm. Hell I might as well drop it to 15ius mwf, that's a big dose as it is and it'll save me some money only using 45ius ew. This method is supposed to more closely mimic the huge igf-1 surges we had during puberty when we were maturing and adding muscle to our frame without even working out. Other protocol I've read about is month long blasts, like 20ius ed for a month and then off for a period of time. Idk why I'm always so scared to try something new, especially when my current protocol is not doing what I want it to.

Maybe my body is just so used to gh I need to take like 4-6 months off and then come back on again and it'll spark some new growth, it was pretty magical the first few months for body comp.

Comments

  • WINNING's picture
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  • WINNING
  • 1 year ago

I'm still on number 3, I have never tried growth. I would love to and insulin

  • johnmarshall12's picture
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You need to be really careful with insulin as I'm sure you know. It can perform near miracles wth GH but you know the hazaeds

  • PPGfreak's picture
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  • PPGfreak
  • 1 year ago

I’ve been reading up on the same thing and considering it myself. We all know that we need to spike our igf levels as high as possible to reach Hyperplasia.

So would it be better to Have excessively high levels three or four days a week versus medium levels seven days a week? And then the next question, when do you actually want these levels during the day? Morning? Before work out? After a workout? Or before bed? I myself do not have an answer. But would definitely love to be part of an experiment.

Could we get three or possibly four volunteers for something? Each of us inject the hgh only three times a week at higher dosages during one time of the day. Someone pick morning, someone pick pre-work out, someone pick after work out, and someone pick before bed.

  • Dope's picture
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Im using Gh eod long time now .great mass gains from 8iu humatrope or norditropin eod and the best thing ? BS stay nice and low , no insulin resistance at all

On 4 iu ed couldnt keep my BS stable even with 2000 mg metformin ed

I do mine post WO all in once straight 8 iu IM split bettween muscles trained

Respect

Dope

  • Bearded_muscle's picture
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I’m fairly sure you want the biggest spike to be post workout since the igf will target damaged tissue, but many of the protocols I’ve seen for growth over 6-8iu has the dose split up and spread throughout the day.

  • PPGfreak's picture
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I’ve yried every protocol myself. Fact is, I noticed little to no difference at all. The only difference I ever noticed in any of them would be if I injected it prior to bedtime my sleep would be better than if I injected it in the morning. Now I have not run bloodwork at lunchtime during both to show that one to be a more effective than the other The only difference I ever noticed any of them would be if I injected it prior to bedtime my sleep would be better than if I injected it in the morning.

But I agree with you that on paper that does make the most amount of sense. It would be honestly hard to tell unless you did bloodwork three times a day and tried multiple different cycles and kept pulling your blood to see how your average level to be throughout the day. Otherwise, all of us are just guessing.

  • exoticnfit's picture
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  • exoticnfit
  • 1 year ago

4. I think this has simply to do with muscle maturity in general and how the muscles will appear over TIME.

Regardless of insulin use.

I've used insulin prior to GH based on expense and the desired growth it gives even without GH in the mix.

With GH and usually when you are on dosages 8iu or more are most using slin and in combination with AAS and of course a TON OF FOOD do we get the freaky nature expected.

Lets also look at Ramy...dude took 7 years to go from a now body in the gym to 2nd Best in the world...so to say the norm is decades of training, many years of aas then adding GH and/or Slin is really not the norm any more.

I'm seeing young cats from 17-24yrs of age looking like fully matured MUSCLED soon to be Pros and its clearly nothing to do with training for decades or waiting to use certain PED's later.

They are clearly on them younger now (to each their own and another topic) and as Ramy, Cutler, Heath and others within the past 15-20yrs are proving waiting is no longer apart of the game.

Another big name (RIP) is Dallas and who can forget Reagan who scared the shit out of himself (that and maybe all the ER visits ramy had last year coupled with being jabbed more than preferred) and retreated back to the USA to shrink back down.

Again, may be too focused on this but #4 doesn't even exist anymore because it is placed in with either #2 or #3 at best as slin use is widespread.

I mean, we even have IG slin users (real diabetic) that is bragging about being diabetic, using insulin and being able to eat whatever he wants etc.

The large majority of people (believe it or not) are likely great candidates for long acting form of slin just to help give the ol' slin-organ a break from having to work so hard in general (due to most diets in America)much less if you are choosing to pound back serious calories.

As always.

Be safe and train for PURPOSE!

  • Bearded_muscle's picture
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  • Bearded_muscle
  • 1 year ago

Bump for this post, I’m considering doing 8 iu m/w/f on an upcoming recomp/post cut maintenance phase and was going to ask if anyone had a recommended way to break up those pins. Twice a day? Three times?
Ameen Alai has said he likes growth eod or even once or twice a week because the body “desensitizes” to it if taken ed. Obviously this guy has a lot of experience and expertise.
Also recently in an interview with Dorian Yates he told palumbo that looking back at his photos he actually looked better shooting m/w/f higher doses than shooting gh ed.
Is this from less water retention? Potentially better insulin sensitivity from less frequent doses? Thoughts?

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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  • Rustyhooker
  • 2 years ago

Ive finished cutter cycle and midway thru pct. Ive got hgh enroute and planned on 2iu per day and later bump to 4iu per day.

Per reading that should be enough to bump up metabolism? Next cycle around april and will add igf1-lr3 into the mix.

This sound like a decent start?

  • growthman's picture
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Hell ya. Great start and glad to hear. 2iu should improve your sleep quality a bit. It should also help with a little improved nutrient partitioning (eventually leading to a leaner physique). 2iu would improve my quality of life. 2iu should supercharge your aas a little. Obviously 4iu would work better but you’re smart starting slow, seeing what it does/does not do for you and how you like it.

Not sure if you’re running it with aas after your pct or if you’re going to come off the oils and run the gh alone but I never got much out of gh without running it alongside aas (that’s just me and was unsolicited but food for thought). That said, and not to over-sell it, gh is hands down my favorite PED. The quality of my life improves with gh.

Keep us posted on how you feel bro.

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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Starting slow because from reading the sides like numb hands and bloat didnt sound fun. Especially with some brands being really strong while others are mild or bunk per others bloods.

April is next planned cycle and will follow makwas igf1-lr3 forum with the gear.

Im almost 47 so it would seem that i should get better sleep and metabolism boost as natural levels drop. Just sleeping deep rem would be nice too.

  • SlowBro's picture
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  • SlowBro
  • 3 years ago

my experience is that it is best to take a few months off of GH every year. GH year long in anything more than HRT doses (like 2iu) can really reduce your insulin sensitivity, and while you may remain lean, insulin sensitive plays a huge role in muscle growth.

that being said, what you mentioned, there are a million different theories on how to run GH. there are plenty of big guys who will tell you that they used it every which way and that their way is right. some guys swear by dosing it 5x daily, others morining and pre bed, some pre workout, others post, some guys all before bed, others 5 days on and 2 days off, some guys 7 days a week, and others in larger doses 3x weekly like you mentioned. at this point, its mostly bro science. people will say that IGF will be more consistently raised with daily doses or multiple doses throughout the day, but there is more to GH than just an elevated IGF. i personally had the best results in my opinion splitting it 2-3 times daily. a morning dose, a preworkout dose, and a pre bed shot. i never run really large amounts though, never more than like 6iu. I have tried dosing like you mentioned, higher doses 3 times a week and personally i didnt like it as much. its hard to say if the results were much different to be honest, but the side effects for me were much more unpleasant.

and in regards to phil, he is a just a genetic freak. plenty of guys have run tons of drugs, insulin, GH, etc and are no where NEAR his look. im sure phil uses far less drugs than a lot of the top NPC guys. if he was really "philsulina" and insulin made his look then bostin lloyd should look like phil heath too. but he doesnt, because phil heath was born to bodybuild.

  • irongame427's picture
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Ya I'm with ya, I just noticed my results just weren't what they once were despite a good dose of quality gh and after speaking with s friend he suggested the same thing so I've been off gh for about a month and plan for another 6 weeks off or so. Hope the results are better like when I first starts using it. 6ius seems to be my sweet spot. 2ius an 2ius pre workout 2ius before bed. But I've also gotten awesome results with just am and pm 2-2.5 doses. But for cutting I like the 3 times a day, even when bulking Kt works fine Mkt much difference between other protocols with the same dose. But even 3-4ius of quality pharm grade gh really does wonders for how I look, well atleast it used to. Body has definitely gotten very used to gh even trying to avoid that by using low doses like 2.5ius off cycle then up to 6+ ius on. Ye recently since I just wasn't getting the same results until I realized my body was used to this stuff I needed a break. And funny you bring up insulin sensitivity, it took a long time but mine went down significantly. Fasting glucose was still good and all but I I don't really use slin much like bulkdaddy said it makes me feel like shit. 4ius with plenty and I mean plenty of carbs right after the shot and an hour later and I was still sick and all I wanted to do was sleep which is a big no no. Then I didn't touch it for a long long time and all of a sudden I could shoot 10ius and get away with just 50g of carbs sipped slowly, even 15ius with 30g sugar from pineapple juice right away and sipping on another 40g. That's when I knew my insulin sensitivity was down. So I've been taking metformin and I'm about to start a low carb diet after the past 5 months of heavy carbs.

But ya you're right genetics really are king. Nobody wants to believe this but my good friend ifbb pro offseason cycle one year he put on 30lbs to his stage weight in 6 months. So not bullshit 30lb bulk he was 215 on stage then after his 6 month offseason he came back st 245. His cycle, 600mgs test 600mgs eq, he honstely believes there's no benefit going higher cause his friend read a study. Along with that 4ius of gh. Never touched slin. He wanted me to show him how to use it bjf we never got around to it. He's on 400mgs test year round besides pre comp he drops it a week out or so then off season he might up it to 600 or just leave it and add eq and if I give him some dbol he'll run 30mgs for a month. Neve over 3 pills a day win dbol or var cause Dave palumbo told him one year when he had Dave prep him. He's not a steroid genius or internet guru. He just knows how to train and diet and add in some gear with that dedication and then genetics and there you go.his cycles back n the day we're 200mgs test 200mgs deca. Said he'd get strong as an ox on just 200mgs of test. 2 10 week cycles s year. I mean I run more gear then the guy it's almost hard not to lol. My last cycle was 600mgs test 750mgs eq. Anyways I know lots of freaks, and I ain't one of them lol. Just don't have the genetics and I'm not gonna kill my self mega dosing for mediocore results. I'll chug along on my 600-700mgs test 500mgs nandrolone in the offseason and prop var provi is a good cutter for me, some mast really sets it off. Gonna run some tren this summer to see if I can get into condition to compete but I see trens only use as pre contest. Will see how it goes.

  • Bulkdaddy's picture
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  • Bulkdaddy
  • 3 years ago

I wish I can handle insulin it just makes me feel like complete shit! I have people tell me I look huge when taking it with high amounts of gh. I was running 24ius Monday-Friday split with 10ius slin morning and postworkout... Makes me feel like complete shit though.

  • SlowBro's picture
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nobody said that getting big felt good lol.

you dont need that much insulin to grow. a small 5-7iu dose preworkout 3 days a week is plenty. i know it doesnt sound very much, and its not. but if your pre/intra/post workout nutrition is perfect its more than enough to help bring extra blood and nutrients to the muscles. you can use this amount as long as you like and not have to worry about ruining your insulin sensitivity.

  • irongame427's picture
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Ya first time I actually made it more then a week was 7ius twice a day, felt good made good gains. Recently read about very small doses before meals like 3ius with meals. Might try that.

  • quick89's picture
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Maybe try running less slin? WHEN I'm lean enough to run slin( which isn't common), I run just humalog 10-15iu pre workout and drink 100-150 carbs intra ( a mix of juice, Gatorade and HBCD) with 10g eaa and 20g peptopro. When I'm done training I go home, wait half an hour as long as I'm feeling fine then do a meal with high carbs and protein low fats, then the next meal I go back to my regular macros and feel great. Just my personal experience (and I haven't been that lean in awhile), haven't posted in this group so here's my .02

  • irongame427's picture
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Being lean enough is key, imo don't rhn slin above 8%bf or so. If you follow that you'll blow up lean. At higher bfs I myself have gotten fat and seen others.

  • Makwa's picture
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  • Makwa
  • 3 years ago

Never tried the 3day wk blast approach, hell I'm a complete noob with GH, but I think a key piece going forward from here on out is IGF. Now that some good quality IGF is available I think that is going to be a real game changer when coupled with GH and AAS and insulin for some. I can't imagine running a cycle without IGF after what I have experienced with it so far. Create the new muscle fibers with the IGF and make them bigger right away with the anabolics. We are only born with so many muscle fibers and can only make them bigger with AAS. Now we have a legit opportunity to actually build new fibers fairly quickly with IGF. I think that is the ticket here instead of running mega doses of GH. GH and IGF compliment each other well though.

  • Rustyhooker's picture
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  • Rustyhooker
  • 3 years ago
  • @Makwa

How's the gains been on the igf? Crazy pumps? Dosing?

  • irongame427's picture
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  • irongame427
  • 3 years ago
  • @Makwa

But where youre at since you just started running gh not all that long ago running it ed will give you great results. The brand you're using was the first "pharm quality" gh I used after finally saying fuck the Chinese generics. That first month on either 4 or 5ius I lost so much fat without even trying it was crazy. But I think just like with any drug your boat gets used to it after a while and you just don't get the same results you once did. I thought I could get around this buy using lower doses off cycle and higher doses on cycle to shock my body and I think it did work for a while but now it's just been so long I think I need to take a few months off or try that 3 day to eod approach. It's big on some other forums lot of guys getting great results from it. Off-season bulking mwf and blast it only on those days so you get the bit as spikes in igf-1 which many say is more like how it was in puberty vs just consistent levels. This is just gh alone though, if one was running insulin with it then then ed and frequent dosing is definitely optimal. But like 2ius 3 times a day has never done much if anything for muscle Growth. Only time I've noticed extra muscle growth from hgh is taking big doses either pre or post workout. But when cutting nothing beats 3 shots ed am, pre workou, and pm. 5-6ius ed works wonders. For older guys you don't even need that much. Sucks us younger guys neeed to use more to get not even as good results.

  • irongame427's picture
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  • irongame427
  • 3 years ago
  • @Makwa

Ya I agree, if you check our forum posts from the early 2000s everyone said the stuff was crazy. Then it went mia until the recently (igf-1). It's definitely been said to be a game changer and take things to another level. Thing is the only thing hgh does in that 191aa form is burn fat, nothing else all it's other effects come after causes the liver to start producing igf-1. This igf-1 vs direct igf-1 aren't exaclty alike but igf-1 is said to cause proliferation of muscle cells, and fuck I been running this shit for years and my arms still lag bad as does my chest. You'd think I woulda created plenty of new muscle fibers by now to have a decent chest and arms but it seems unchanged. All the studies I've read have never detected new muscle fibers in humans only in rats taking gh/igf. But look at Dorian first dude to start really abusing gh and he took things to another level. And ronnie/jay etc etc there dudes must have a ton more muscle fibers then guys like surge/Lee/Arnold/Franco/Zane etc etc. Larry Scott first mr Olympia somewhere between 5'7-510 205 in 1965, 40 years later in 2005 Coleman comes in at 305 fucking pounds lol, 100lbs heavier at almost the same height maybe a little taller. So idk. I guess I'm gonna pick up some more igf-1 and start running it 4 on 4 off and lower my does of gh. People talked about adding 2 inches to already insanely developed arms in 6 months when using igf-1, they didn't cycle it either just ran it months on end.

What were your results like on your first run or 2 with the igf-1? I know you're plannnjng on taking this whole year off to grow but I'd love to hear how you do in the same amount of time you took last year to add size with the addition of igf-1, if that makes sense. If you bulked for say 6 months last year and I think you said you added 13lbs prett solid I'd love to hear how you make out in the same amount of time with the addition of igf-1.

I'd really like to run it solo with just a small dose of test like 250mgs ew after being off for a while. According to the old timers who ran the real stuff back in the day it can be run as a stand alone with some crazy results. Add a few pounds of lbm, lean out etc. to really gauge the effectiveness. I've done this once before with the brand you're running to help an injury but that was my primary goal, I wasn't able to lift much at the time and my diet was more around Maintance. I'd like to keep my bulking diet keep lifting hard and heavy and just run the igf-1 by itself and see what's up so any results I get I know it's from tjr igf-1 cause usually i run it on cycle so it's hard to say ya those few lbs of muscle came fe the igf-1 not the test/dbol of gh.