HCG at the start of cycle
35 years old
190 lbs. 5'8
Have done 3 cycles
So, i've done some searching on the forums and unless I missed something, I haven't found much information about HCG at the start of a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. Some say that you get desensitized to HCG after prolonged use.
The reason I bring this issue up is I saw a youtuber go on about how once testicular atrophy occurs, some of the cells that go dormant never fully recover (which is why you should start hcg at the beginning of cycle so atrophy never occurs). And he also is a big proponent on Triptorelin. I don't want to plug his name and I realize there's a lot of garbage info on youtube, but I wanted to know if anyone else has heard of this considering he didn't give any citations for his sources of information.
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Again like people have said HCG is really IMO, used to kick start your PCT. HCG acts like LH (Lutheinizing hormone) LH is what your leydig cells in you testicles, need to produce natural testosterone. If there is no LH your body will not produce test, in short you balls get smaller. (side not HCG converts to estro)
After a cycle (like Hooker said a more harsh cycle) HCG is used to kick start that LH in your nuts to get things moving, but in your PCT your still running the other things in your PCT whatever that is Clomid, Nolvedex, ARO PCT etc.
Everything works together, if you want your nuts to stay somewhat in size instead of taking HCG in you cycle try taking clomid at 20mg ED. Clomid blocks estrogen at the pituitary when the pituitary sees less estrogen it starts to make LH, LH is sent to your testis which in turn makes test.(also keeps your balls bigger cause they are simi working naturally) Also Clomid helps produce FSH which leads to sperm production, not only sperm production (big loads) but sperm motility means better swimmers.--its the reason it is given to men with low sperm count and shitty swimmers, it helps increase the rate of a pregnancy.
Kinda of got of topic, but just adding my 2 cents. HCG has its place, and that place is if your PCT is not working and you need that stimulation to your nuts to get the LH going.
RustyhookerOnly time i see hcg as a necessity is on harsh or long cycles. Blast method before pct and into first week of pct.
I also like the aro pct which has been backed by blood tests and having high e2 or prolactin will halt the pct from working. Blood group fully lays that out.
I also run my caber into week 2 if bloods showed i needed caber.
HCG, best used on cycle in spurts at low doses, 250-500iu's 3x per week. You will not desensitise this way.
Some people dont get extreme TA whereas others balls will shrivel right up, so it's use is subjective to each individual and taking into account the cycle duration. Point of starting use shouldnt be the beginning of the cycle and is dependent on duration of the cycle but also on when your balls start shrinking.
HCG use for PCT is different, and HCG use for a restart following TRT or for fertility reasons, or for ASIH is again different. 3 approaches basically.
Thanks for the reply +1
So you would suggest to start HCG spurts at low doses when one notices their testicles start to shrink?
You can't +1 him mate and make it count until you reach 50 karma. I use to think the same as you also...
Wow didn't know that.. Thanks
I wouldn't suggest anything, not knowing cycle details and duration etc. to be honest.
Whats the plan, goals etc?
P.S. did you ever do the keto bulk in the end?
Next cycle is probably going to be Sust and Deca both at 300 mg a week. I've ran that before and got good results except it was with Test E instead of Sust.
And yes I did do the keto bulk for about a month of my last cycle and was getting great results. My cholesterol was out of whack when I've never had problems with it in the past. I forgot what the HDL to LDL ratio was, but my doctor said it was a concern so I stopped keto and went back to eating carbs. I later learned that cholesterol on keto shouldn't be looked at the same way and there's something called "remanent cholesterol" that's a more important indicator of how it's doing.
I'm currently back on keto before my next cycle and I love it. I just think way more clearly on it and have more energy throughout the day.
Well done!
Yeah the lpids will change, but what you need to check is ldl particle size. if ldl's are mainly big fluffy particle, which they will be on keto, the lipid thing is a non-issue.
Yeah you cannot beat the mental clarity on keto. Once you fully switch, it is amazing.
CelestiaxIn my opinion, hcg is an overrated compound and shouldn't be used by anyone who doesn't compete or bodybuilds for life. Definitely not for beginners because the dangers outweigh the benefits. Especially, desensitization which can mess up your reproductive system long term.
Just don't look down when you shower and have a solid PCT protocol in place, they'll come back :-)
Wow. -2 for bad information and terrible advice.
If you jog on and learn about HCG before mouthing out nonsense like this and come back and correct your post I will give the karma back.
CelestiaxA few months after it was stopped, he was diagnosed with 'LC hypoplasia' and had zero sperm count. Reintroducing hcg did help inducing 'spermatogenesis' and 'steroidogdnsis' with 20 million count, but again disappeared once Hcg was stopped. Will post the text exchange and the links when provided. And i stand corrected, I shouldn't have passed on anything that I haven't verified myself. Point taken and lesson learned.
Very interesting. Karma back.
But LC hyperplasia is considered a disease or caused by genetic mutations, right? A pre-existing insensitivity to LH caused by something else in puberty or a genetic mutation, right? and HCG is actually used to try to stimulate the hypo cells t make testo. So I am wondering how a diagnosis relating to hcg could ever be made?
HCG can be considered similar to LH (but with some different cascade effects), whereas rFSH and HMG are used as a synth FSH which is the hormone that induces spermies to be made in setoli cells/tubules.
But also.... to optimally stimulate a hypo leydig cells' growth (fsh induces hypertrophy of leydig cells iirc), and to induce spermie mode obviously, rfsh or hmg was needed, not lh, but LH is needed to produce testo which is used for maturation of the spermies, and normal testies function.
So basically... both are needed to properly try to restore his function and fertility...... given he had a hypo situation..... so what happened? Are we missing something?
But... did he just have a disease? had he ever had his spermcount measured before all of this?
CelestiaxThank you for accepting my apology. Still waiting on the link. Honestly, and after reading for myself, if anything, it seems like a self inflicted injury. I have the text exchange uploaded and ready to post. Just waiting on the study that his doctor supposedly told him to read and the diagnosis was based on.
There has to be more to the story. HCG by itself cannot do that there has to be other factors.Sounds to me not only was he shut down but either his estro was through the roof, or his body stop producing LH. ..So your buddy was on HCG only? No DR would proscribe HCG by itself and no one with experience and knowledge would ever just take HCG by itself, it needs other things. Like clomid, or nolvadex, or an AI like aremidex. HCG converts to estro. If your buddy just did HCG and didn't do a PCT with it. Than his lack of knowledge and understanding is what got him in the mess..
I've never heard anyone say this about HCG before - is this actually true?
CelestiaxA friend swore to me that it caused fertility problems for him. Just asked him for a link to a study and I'll post it when I get it.
Bro you write up a paragraph of advice calling HCG pointless, and you base this on "My friend swore" .
Tht is everything that is wrong with bro science.
In his own words he even advised not to use it unless you 'compete or plan on bodybuilding for a lifetime' - now the old chestnut of 'a friend told me' comes into action. Gotta love these beginners playing expert steroid guru....
Your friend is prob either running gear or using it from docs prescribing for an underlying issue...highly doubt the hcg actually is the culprit here but looking forward to your link study
Hcg is prescribed to TRT patients to restore fertility and for the cosmetic benefit of reversing testicular atrophy in TRT patients. Not sure how it would cause fertility problems maybe his fertility problem was that he was too fertile? Anyway I’m always up to reading scientific studies.
I always use hcg after last pin up to pct... if I'm running a long cycle I might run 250 a week but always at the end...i never heard this either I don't think it's true
I’ve never heard this either. Doctors prescribe hcg all the time. I’m curious to here what these dangers are.
Where are all the Vets at?! lol
Haha I don’t know but I can’t wait to hear this.