Attempting to Reverse Gyno
Alright, I have always had lumps under my nipples, never really worried me until recently. Under my right nipple the lump has gone from larger, kinda soft lump which never hurt to touch, to a small more dense and hard lump which now is sensitive to touch. I think this was caused by rebound gyno from my last PH cycle in the winter. I plan on doing my first AAS cycle in the fall so i wanna handle this now. This is what I had in mind:
Letro
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro
(BTW, got this from another site, just wanted to know what people thought)Continue at 2.5 until lump decreases, then taper down. After finished with letro go to nolvadex for a week or two to prevent rebound gyno and estrogen again. Another question I had was if it would be smart to take DAA while on all of this to prevent loss in sex drive and strength?
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beyourownbankFrom what I understand only SERMS can reverse gyno as letro and others are just inhibitors. They prevent but can't reverse. As far as I know the only two that have a chance to reverse it are raloxifene and tamoxifen.
Raloxifene: 60mg daily. You should see improvement in approx. 4 to 6 weeks. If not increase by 20 mg for every 3 weeks, never to exceed 100mg daily.
Tamoxifen: 40mg daily for once week. Then 20mg daily until gynecomastia is reversed.
Maybe learn a little bit about it before you dispense medical advice?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071351
uphighI think you have it all covered. I would go with what your thinking, and see what happens.
i ran letro for gyno reversal i aquired during a test/dbol/deca cycle, i put the blame on the deca, ive run cycles without 19nor, no problems, deca at 3-350 mg/week with 500 test-e and dbol kicker. i could lactate a baby cow if i wanted lol, i had no caber on hand, it was my first cycle (good example why your first should be test only). i popped b6 at high doses and it did help to an extent, i later used letro to reverse it and worked good , its not all gone but one nip its 80%gone other about 60%. dbolz, im gonna look into your opinions on this, i would much rather use aromasin than letro, my sex drive from letro went from go go go, to no no no
dbolzDid your gyno stay 60%/80% less when you finished pct? The lactation stopped cause you controlled the estrogen and deca was out of your system. Where you running the letro with no gear whatsoever? If you have to use letro again proviron takes care of the ed sides. Keep in mind the ed sides on letro come due to the active incredient not cause it crashes your e2. Try that theory dose letro at 2.5mg (full tab) and dose the next day at 1.75mg (3/4 of a tab) your libido will be normal at 3/4 of a tab. If letro was crashing estrogen 98% with as low as 100mcg like people say online 3/4 of a tab or a full tab would still crash your libido. Again proviron is another proof that the libido issues are because of the active incredient since it lowers estrogen even more. Next time if you run into any probs just use aromasin and you will probably get even better results with the reduction. Also raloxifene can be used with deca and if you have prog gyno, bigger aerolas than normal evista is going to reduce them in size/length. Took almost 2cm out of my right aerola with evista/aromasin combo while on a deca cycle and kept all the results till date as well. Like people keep letro in their stash i keep evista in my stash in case i have probs again. Aromasin i run anyway
but proviron also raises free test levels in your body as well, thats probably what offsets its effect, proviron itself isnt really very effective as an estrogen blocker, its effects on estro are minimal, good for someone looking to prevent estro problems that arent really prone to them and on top of that will keep you lean and dry throughout your cycle. i love my provi for the hardening effects it gives me. both scenarios are possible. from all ive read in alot of places is that letro will lower your estro very low very fast and is good for reversing gyno, i wouldnt ever use it as an on cycle therapy consistently though, you dont want your estro that low.
dbolzSo does letro they both lower shgb hence increasing free test and in result free estrogen too, keep in mind AI's cant reduce free estrogen. I dont suggest proviron as an AI to anyone i just wanted to make a point how its the active ingredient in letro that messes our libido, its not cause it crashes our estrogen. Thats the thing with letro all numbers are based on post menopausal women and thats not what we are. You have to dismiss a lot of crap before you get into reality with what letro does. Keep researching on letro and you will see what i mean. At a young male it can lower estrogen up to only 46% (56%-58% for older folks) nothing like 98% mentioned all over the forums. Either way the whole theory of starving oestrogen/estrogen from the receptor doesnt work when you have free estrogen floating about due to low shgb which is what letro does. Letro is not much better than adex in reducing gyno. Aromasin + a serm are much better than either of them. Letro can be run on cycle easily just not healthy for your lipids, its just a matter of choice.
dbolzThe letro protocol is the worst thing that has ever been written in the bodybuilding world. That guy that wrote it assumes that letro reduces estrogen 98%. Letro in men reduces estrogen only by up to 50-58%%. Not much stronger than adex. You got as many chances to reduce gyno with adex or letro. You wont see any results from it other than reverting the dominance to testosterone and thats if you are lucky. I got much better results on my gyno by using aromasin. Letro did nothing for me. Good luck though. Aromasin is the strongest AI of all three AI's on the market.
Estrogen suppression from aromasin in males is 38%-62% at dose of 25mg ED
Estrogen suppression from arimidex in males is 30-50% at a dose of 1mg ED
Estrogen suppression from letrozole in males is 35-58% at a dose of 2.5mg ED
The letro protocol is flawed to say the least. Only thing you would achieve is a sky high number of triglycerides and mess your ldl/hld profile.
why does everyone say to have letro on hand then during a cycle as a last resort thing if you develop gyno symptoms if letro isn't the strongest? jw what you recommend for dosing aromasim if i wanted to try that instead?
dbolzIts a bit stronger than adex and maybe works faster than aromasin thats why everyone says to have it on hand i guess. Imo the letro blog was written back in 2007 the guy that wrote it never tried aromasin or raloxifene, aromasin had a bad rep at the time. There is a lot of parrot talk in the steroid world all evidence on letro are undectotal anyway. I personally have tried all three AI's even letro for 9 weeks (@2.5mg ed for reversal) and found aromasin the strongest by far. Aromasin you can stack with a serm as well, raloxifene is the best for reversing pubertal/preexisting gyno. 25mg ed of aromasin is all you need. If you want to cover all areas then add raloxifene to the mix at 60mg ed (consult your doc before you use a serm due to the blood clotting). Aromasin lowers shgb and that increases free estrogen and free test so best to add a serm if you are reversing gyno. Letro also lowers shgb but you cant stack that with any serm so you will always have free estrogen floating about and will probably never reverse any gyno. This is my opinion though i am sure others will have their own opinions about letro. Give letro a go if you want and stay on it for like 7-9days anything more than that you do more damage than good. If it doesnt work within 10days just switch to aromasin. Its much kinder on your lipids
Boston is spot on there if you dont go under the knife never expect to reverse your gyno 100% everything you try will just reduce it and make it easier to live with.
thanks for the help, I think I might try aromasin first since I already have some and see how it goes. How long would you recommend staying at 25mg for? Just until I start seeing results? and one more question..will taking aromasin by itself (not on cycle) affect anything like strength? because if it does anything to my weight or strength I would rather just live with gyno lol
dbolzI would use it till your symptoms subside just watch out you dont crash your e2 if you dont run any gear with it. It wont affect your strength if anything it boosts igf-1 and is androgenic. If you start loosing water you will loose weight though. Your priority is the gyno now not your strength or your weight. No one likes to live with gyno. The sooner you nip it in the bud the better for you and your future cycles. You got tonnes of time to recoup your weight if you loose any. Just take care of gyno first and stick to aromasin for future cycles.
okay thanks, you said something about stacking raloxifene with it, would nolva suffice instead? and would it be better to take it with the aromasin or after to prevent estrogen rebound? sorry for all the questions
dbolzNolva will suffice yes its just not as effective as raloxifene for gyno. You got me confused here are you on pct, off cycle or what? There is no estrogen rebound from aromasin since its suicidal and it doesnt bind to the enzyme like adex. Id say best to take the nolva along aromasin. Stop the nolva a week or two before the aromasin cause from the nolva you will rebound
I'm off cycle right now(been off for about 2 months now) and oh I okay I was not not aware of that I figured there would be some estrogen rebound in all of them lol You think only 10mg a day will be enough for nolva if I running at the same time as aromasin?
dbolz10mg should be fine yes also you might not need 25mg aromasin for results. 12.5mg should be just fine since you wont be running anything. You will only rebound from the nolva so stop that first then the aromasin. Will sent you fr if you need any help with it let me know
ight, thanks again for the help man, hopefully this works lol
Im kinda in the same boat bro. Been on for five months but had ups and downs with bunk gear but for the last 10 wks its been amazing ....I have a lump under left nip its a little bit to the left of my nip not directly under it. Im gonna grab letro and run it a lil while and taper down and see if I can diminish the lump. My lump is kinda soft not too hard and not even super noticeable to others but to me it is, I've never had a prob with gyno until I ran 750mg test per wk this cycle so future cycles im gonna have something on hand to prevent it. Right nip is in the clear as far as no lumps but its stayed pretty puffy and sensitive the whole time , but I have a bit of nolva on hand that im gonna start soon so that will at least prevent any gyno forming in that nip and hell maybe it will even help the left one out a bit
Ya i'm not familiar with letro really, it just said to do it like this the first 5 days (taper up) then run it at 2.5 for as long as you feel you need to, then taper down, so this isn't the right way to to do it? lol this is where I found it:
http://www.steroidworld.com/forums/archived-greats/5956-gyno-prevention-...
BostonBro a route like this will make the lump considerably smaller but it will never be all gone without going under the knife. I have a friend who has a lump under each nip and he did the letro thing. Killed his sex drive. Didnt matter if 2 bad ass ladies were making out in front of him, he wasnt interested lol. Just be prepared for that and like i say, it wont ever go all the way away with surgary.
Yes sadly I know it won't go away fully without surgery :/ But I'd be willing to make the sacrafice with the whole low sex drive thing if I can get it (or both) considerablly smaller and be able to maintain it at that size
Your going to feel like Shit at 2.5 mg a day of Letro BRo... Im sure your gyno will not go away in 5 days lol. You would need to run it much longer then that for gyno to disapear. If you do decide to run Letro. You should taper off of. The opposit of what you just posted.