+ 8 The Proviron Experiment
A few years back I was torn about Proviron being suppressive or not. Information on this is very conflicting and it appeared Proviron much like everything else in the hormonal world was not universal. So being as the timing was right I decided to find out and that was how the Proviron experiment began. I was 20 weeks outside my last cycle. I had originally purchased the proviron to help me bridge from cycle through pct. At 20 weeks ran my pre cycle labs everything was normal for my body. I looked everywhere for the lab work I compiled running this experiment but I am afraid it got thrown out in the years since this experiment was run (my wife would be the culprit of this she hates clutter). So I am just going to fill in what you may need to know. I average 1100 nd/dl naturally so I have high testosterone levels and I also do not have a very high aromatization rate estrogen is always on the low end of normal around 15 pg/ml. My labs also had LH and FSH level over the course of the experiment. I have never encountered a problem recovering so outside of pure curiosity I don’t test them often. Nevertheless those were also normal at the beginning of the experiment.
I ran proviron ONLY for 10 weeks just so I would know if it was suppressive or not and this is what I found.
Week 1-2 25mg 12.5 A.M./P.M. I ran labs. Everything was virtually the same. FSH normal, LH a tiny bit lower but still in ballpark of original, total test slightly lower but same ballpark, but free test a notable bit higher at 10%, estrogen was the same.
Week 3-4 50 mg total split AM/PM Labs
FSH down by about 15%, LH down by 20%, total test down respective 25%, free test back at baseline, estrogen lower by 40%
Week 5-6 75 mg total split three times a day Labs FSH down 50% LH lower by 60% total test down 60%, free test lower by 50% estrogen nearly undetectable.
Week 7-8 100mg total split A.M./P.M. Labs
FSH down 80%, LH, total test, free test all pretty much nonexistent. All three registered on the test with estrogen being the lowest of them all, but based off the numbers I was clinically shut down.
Week 9-10 25mg split 12.5mg AM/PM Week 10 labs
FSH, LH, Total Test, free test, estrogen were all up but none showed an increase more than 10%.
I concluded that it’s dose dependent on how suppressive it is but nevertheless suppressive. It appears that at a dose of 25mg it could help with moods and sex drive during PCT but I believe it would draw out the time one needs to run PCT and perhaps how aggressive the PCT. I base this on the fact that while my labs showed the 25mg dose didnt have a huge effect on an already active HPG, the presence of the same 25 mg dose on a shut down HPG didn’t do much along the lines of rehabilitation. Still this experiment is primitive. Not nearly enough time and not enough variable control for it to be definitive. This is not meant to condone or deter the use of Proviron. This is solely me sharing my experience.
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I would never use it during PCT. Its still an anabolic steroid that will have a negative impact on recovering your natural HPTA. During the cycle or even on TRT is when you will really see it shine.
I'm interested in how Proviron would be applied during TRT. And for what duration. It seems to exist in a grey area where SHBG modulation, PCT and oral androgen meet. I'm not clear on how one on long term TRT would appy it.
PcushionOn trt suppression isn’t a concern so given your PSA and lipid values are within an acceptable range one could run it however long they wanted.
I've seen its proven effect on SHBG though blood work so I am a believer.
I like 12.5mg daily on TRT.
Great info - Proviron is such a mystery to this end but your results seem pretty clear. This is especially helpful in consideration of long term application.
Any SHBG numbers?
I'd be really interested to see how the values stack on on cycle.
PcushionI had SHBG tested when I did the bloodwork but like I said I can’t find my lab work anywhere. I do know that free test numbers go up with dose so it’s shown that shbg binding also goes up with dose.
Really great info P, I haven't ran proviron in a while but those benefits are great.. and all the labs you did for this experiment ++ thanks alot bro
PcushionThank you. Glad you liked it brother.
I did something similar a few years ago. Here was my result: https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/proviron-in-...
Thanks for putting this together pal. It can only help others!
RustyhookerI wonder if these few forums from the past and current could be made into a stickie. Its strong info for sure.
I think it would be great if it could. It seems the consideration of using Proviron as a bridge is becoming more common. From what people like us have experienced it definitely seems suppressive and should not be used during PCT or ad a bridge.
Nice work in the EBC by the way!
RustyhookerThank you bro!!
My favorite bridge was simply eating right so i do go backwards. Lol
PcushionI liked your write up brother. The thing stood out the most to me was your your edit on February 2014. Specifically the discussion you had with the other gentleman that bid the question of whether the provi shut you down or were shut down prior. Shut down prior or not doesn’t matter PCT is about recovery and your labs proved Proviron isn’t conducive to HPG recovery. The problem faced is Proviron is still being marketed as an androgen that is good for fertility and not disruptive to the HPG feedback loop despite how many of us disprove these statements.
Agreed. Since I conducted this experiment, almost all the feedback I've seen from folks that tested like us concluded proviron is suppressive.
Thanks again for posting this. Very valuable for the community!
PcushionShoot man I was impressed with yours. I agree 100% about it being suppressive. I also ha e noticed people more and more wanting it in PCT. if they only knew what we do!!!!
That’s great experiment. How did you feel and looked in the mirror when your Estrogen was your lowest??
And did you body composition change at all?
PcushionAs far as composition goes I didn’t loose any muscle. It takes a while for me to loose size I have a lot of old muscle, but I didn’t look as full. I felt like I looked flat. In my journal the only two sides I have listed were foggy brain and lower than normal energy. I documented that I felt fine up until I increased my dose to 75mg. That’s when they became pronounced.
Low energy levels could easily be a result of a low estrogen. Thanks for sharing this, very interesting
PcushionYour welcome. Yeah no doubt prob a little due to low test but mostly dude to low e2.
Glad you posted this. Others here have also shown the same thing and this backs up those findings. Unless you are on exogenous test I wouldn't be using provi.
Good stuff! TY for posting it. It's interesting for sure. Some guys think Provi is like Candy and not suppressive. This helps clarify the issue. +
PcushionFor a compound that’s labeled as not suppressive under150mg I was socked at how fast it imposed influenced negative feedback.
I would have been curious to see how much of a negative feedback with just the 25mg dose would of had if you stayed on that longer. I have a feeling it would have dropped more if you were on it for 4+ wks compared to just the 2wk window you used that dose.
PcushionI think it would have too. When the 25mg was resumed at weeks 9 and 10 my hormone levels did not improve significantly. Even based of my primitive experiment Proviron shows it’s not conducive to keeping the HPG performing at an optimal level. My experience with hormones is there is no in between it either helps or it hurts. Any time you introduce an exogenous hormone to the body that mimics the effects of a naturally occurring hormone there is going to be a repercussion. Even Primo as gently as it is will shut you down once you breach the threshold of dosage and or length of time.
RustyhookerYou should post tests too. When this was tested years ago folks posted bloods as well. It helps for sure seeing it in action
PcushionI was looking but cannot locate them. This was done back in 2012 and I have moved three times and been blessed with two kids so there has been a lot of shuffling around. My wife doesn’t understand the value of those and I do believe she has thrown them out. I will continue to look for them. Without the labs I understand it doesn’t hold a lot of merit with the community. Everyone talks the life but very few live it.
RustyhookerPale and buch of folks posted results about 6 years back. Stuff like this would be great pulled together just because folks do come n go so often. Bout 10 members ran 25 or 50 and it knocked everyone down.
PcushionAgreed!!! People documenting results, actual hands on experience is what will separate the bro science bs and truth. I have documented every cycle I have ever run in full detail. Experience and knowledge is everything in life an with hormone manipulation this is a must. On a different note I also documented what I call the Trenbolone Experiment. This covers the anabolic effects tren expressed on my body under different self imposed conditions.
RustyhookerAgree. I used to love eq a lot. I would do 1 eq cycle a year but i think body got used to it. Simple switch to npp and boom! Body changes or receptor/tolerance?
Tren can be a whole new animal. A few guys report it as tolerable while most seem to get the animal woke. Lol!
Npp is one of the best results producing compounds there is. It makes me feel excellent, improves strenght, recovery, makes evrylift feel smooth as butter, pumps are 24/7 appetite increase more than EQ by far and doesmt effect me sexually. Oh yeah and dont bloat on it like deca.
PcushionYes!!!! You have to swap compounds the body is extremely adaptive. Lol it’s alive... people think tren is the end all be all greatest of all time and the truth is that tren is what you make it just like any other hormone. I believe people take way to much of it. People these days don’t respect the compounds anymore they just blast away with no rhyme or reason.
RustyhookerToo many utubers or sites that dont push safety first. Another site pushed tren and drol for 6 weeks as a first cycle. I grew up with trying to be minimalistic and it worked great for me. Duchaine was a pioneer but comparing his ideals to common use now....huge difference. He was telling pros back then that 25mg of dbol was huge. Kids now starting at 50??
Yeah it’s cool to see folks trying their own thing and getting their own firsthand experience but yeah this was done a while back. I’m not a huge provi fan anyway. Shit made me bald like no other aas I’ve ever used. Acne like a teenager too
RustyhookerSince the orals like var etc lower sbgh, i cant see using both at same time. Seems like overkill. Kinda like pick one or the other situation. Lol
Used it for eight weeks at 25-50mg/day and my HDLs were 10 and liver enzymes were elevated too, both more so than 40mg var for 10 weeks. Didn’t notice any results worth anything, but it was all I was running. Won’t be using that again.
RustyhookerRight?! And the broscience on other sites folks brag about it as a bridge.
And no it wasnt created as a growth mechanism. It blocked the nipples from e2 and lowers sbgh. It proved to be to ergogenic for women so fell outta favor for other options in cancer research....breast cancer.
Yeah definitely not for growth. I was super lean and wanted to see what effect it had since some rave about it. Nada for me. Not so sure it’s that great for end cycle finisher either, mast seems more superior, I noticed that and so did some chicks.
I have pretty liberal access to primo and will continue sticking with that as my base. Just finished a tattoo that took 4 sessions over the same amount of months and starting the summer run soon with a small amount of something new and maybe exotic that I haven’t tried before, hopefully I don’t overheat this time ;)
RustyhookerThe provi mast combo for me kept e2 low enough i had to adjust mast lower or test higher. A few times i had to add tne into the mix to raise e2 to better levels. But thats just me. Other folks ran bloods and the combo did nothing on e2 control.
Fam got me a huge chunk of time for working on the japanese sleeve. Xmas gift. I held off so ebc wasnt hampered at all but now.....lol.
Summer overheating on cycle....ya its real. Try to eat healthy with low salt but that makes it worse. I eat tge low salt sun seeds a bit or add gatorade into my shaker drink
If u live in the south or anywhere it gets blZing hot tren is a no no in the summer! The heat is just too much if u work outside...
PcushionI use mast for e2 control as well. I love mast it’s a great compound.
RustyhookerFew years back noone knew really what to do with it and prices were cheap too. Lol. Times changed.
PcushionMan I know they used to basically give it away.
PcushionIt’s not good as a finisher either. I personally don’t believe it’s due to the hormone being weak though. Its because provi binds to serum serum proteins by 98%. Albumin binding accounts for 40% and SHBG accounts for 58%. It also has an extremely low bioavailability at 3% of the dose. By itself it’s not good for anything in my opinion. Fact is with its low bioavailability and high affinity for serum proteins Proviron lost the race before it even started.
Agree 100%