posted Thu, 01/10/2019 - 01:57
7417
+ 5 Deca vs NPP vs EQ
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Im not a big fan of Deca or EQ but i never tried NPP. I just feel Deca and EQ take way too long to show any progress. Im a test and or Tren guy. I have friends that say i need to use Deca or EQ as a base which i think is BS. Whats your opinion on these compounds?
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sticky sticky sticky.
oh my bad let me shut up.
PcushionBack when I first started pinning I would run eq and I enjoyed the results. It’s not fast acting, but then again I would run eq for 20 weeks at 400mg. It produced good mass and strength gains. A long time ago there was a company that produces a transdermal cream call 1-T, Tren. It was a 19 not precursor and a 1- Test precursor. This was long before the pro hormone ban that exists now. It’s results were brilliant. So going into Deca I thought I would feel the same being as it was a 19 nor and not a precursor but after using a few times I just felt let down. Gains to me were moderate and strength was moderate, but they were not anything I couldn’t get from test alone. NPP I did enjoy a little more but it wasn’t a difference in gains it was how quickly they came about. Point A to B was exactly the same for both compounds and should be being as it’s the same hormone. The length of time it took to get from A to B was what I felt most impressed with. In hindsight maybe that was where I felt deca truly let me down. After 20 weeks I looked in the mirror and thought 20 weeks for this wtf... I don’t use any of the mentioned compounds anymore though. This was just my personal experience with them.
Since this thread is popping, can we throw the question in there, is it ever a good idea to run two 19nors? For example, sust being the base for test, and NPP being the choice for a bulker. EOD injections. Has anyone ever thrown Tren into this mix? I’ve heard guys talk about running deca/tren together, I’m assuming it’s been done, hell prolly a bunch. Any thoughts fellas?
RustyhookerAre you in my adv group? Might be worth a peek. Post pix...apply.
I’m going to check it out, thanks Rusty.
PcushionAnything can be done. It’s all about ones genetic makeup. You best to run labs while only taking one 19-nor to see how your body responds to the progestenic activity. I personally don’t have a problem with progestinic activity but still have never run the two side by side. You have to ask yourself the question of why would I? You are already speeding up the process by taking gear, but when is enough enough. More compounds does not equal more gain....
I hear ya. Appreciate the feedback. I don’t have prolactin issues as well, just wanting to see if it’s been done and hear some advice.
PcushionI know two labs right off the top of my head that make mixes containing test, deca, tren. I am sure there are more. In reality it’s no different than running any other group of hormones all derived from the same parent hormone at the same time. I think lack of knowledge is what fuels the whole brolore about not running 19-nors together. Estrogen issues are an easy fix but it seems people go full blown retard when it comes to any issue outside estrogen. If your interest give it a shot and document that endeavor. It would be a very interesting cycle to follow.
lets say 3 compounds, test, deca tren... 3 binding affinities, better in that respective order... means lower binding affinity becomes less effective each time a higher binding affinity is added.
So, with that in mind after I realised I was making deca and tes more or less redundant, I tried 2 protocols for pinning
1. ed shots but tes/npp, then test/tren, repeat - short esters that is
2. x2 per week shots. test/deca, then test tren, repeat e3.5d - mid esters (enth/decano)
I dont recommend, but if you gonna do it, #2 is more stable and more anabolic, less sides, but #1 will always feel like more bang for your buck due to sides.
More anabolic why
Good Q!
Couple of reasons and they have been measured over the years so they know exactly what happens.....
Better nutrient partitioning
Nitrogen retention of test E for example is something like 175% that of prop.
Plasma levels stability (prop or TNE for example, in and out faster) are a factor in anabolism - this is other end of the spectrum completely from a mid or long ester, but if you use a massive dose of no ester 1x per day, for example, you will see fuck all muscle growth as it is gone in hours - this exaggerated example shows how the shorter the ester, the shorter the duration of action in plasma and therefore in muscle
Duration of anabolic activity of enanthate (a mid ester) is about 3 times that of prop (approx)
The peaks and troughs (far greater gap with shorts) are what lead to side effects like shbg spikes as the body senses a greater shock, so it tries to bind the excess androgens to get back to homeostasis.
There is an indirect relationship with androgens and IGF where the steady plasma levels or smaller gap from peak to trough will lead to a bigger release of growth factors (If I remember correctly), so while androgens are 1 piece of the puzzle IGF plays a big part as a growth factor, but also as a antagonist to androgen receptor binding proteins and it also works as a co-activator of the androgen receptor.
Pharmacokenitics 101
LOL
Zactly!
I think that, all this said...
it still all works, you know. but the point is, you can use a more stable ester, get a better result with less, and all with less frequent pinning and easier sides management. Less pain overall. Easier and more optimal.
most ppl just focus on sides as a marker for "it's kicking in already, wowsers".
Who_CaresExactly. If i get no PIP i questing authenticity. I know thats an idiot move
yeah bit we are all guilty of it man. if we just think, and read and learn and rethink we will get there!
Who_CaresThanks G for the contribution on this thread
I never thought it from that accept when it comes to pinning protocol. Thanks for dropping some knowledge on me big dog! ED pinning can become brutal, but there’s no shortcuts in the game. Option 2 does make more sense on several levels but I’ve been a short ester user, might have to change that if I decide to run both of these together. Thank you.
just a different way of looking at thing. It all works in the end, but optimal is often easiest option!
I run Tren & NPP all the time and it works brilliantly..
Who_CaresThats alot of pinning
What's 10 minutes to do an injection?
Who_CaresI dont mind them i just prefer 1 pin a week. That's whats nice about deca. Im used to eod with Tren.
There is some sources that have tren/test mixed, short or long ester versions, whichever floats your boat, and then throw in a cc if NPP and your looking at 2cc EOD, or if your opting for the longer version, throw in deca with the test/tren mix and your looking at 2cc twice weekly.
Who_CaresDak i think Deca is prefered over NPP for bulking. I may be wrong but thsts what ive gathered.
Deca or NPP, yes. Thanks for the correction.
Who_CaresMy buddies Love Deca with Sus. The test they run higher than Deca.
Alphamale500Yeah I used to love deca with sust too. Great simple stack to put on some nice defined mass! Pretty common beginners stack. I used to run the sust higher than the deca also to prevent deca-dick.That's the common thought. But I've learned that you can run a very good low test and moderate to high NPP/deca stack without getting deca-dick. As long as you run enough test(like 125,150mg/wk) to keep your system functioning, keep an eye on your prolactin levels and have some caber just in case.
I’ve read this thread well, personally I get better results on NPP. There’s a lot of factors, but that is my personal experience. I buy NPP that is higher dosed per cc though, I like NPP @150/and 200mg per cc. There’s a few sources that sell it higher doses, and I run it eod. For me, I like short esters, always have treated me better, and I like the idea if things go south in a hurry, I can drop it like a bad date and sides subdue with em days for the most part.
My findings after running them all over several years are: EQ makes you feel great (almost euphoric), results are fairly minimal and you'll see veins purely because of the BP and hemocrit increase. Deca is easily the most effective of them all for size and strength once its built up after 4/5 weeks BUT has the heaviest sides and you can often feel rough on it. NPP when you find the right lab gives great energy, appetite, strength and size but 2/3 effective as deca.
Quality npp is hard to find when you do the stuff is top notch
Oh yes! The best I've ever used is in my pictures, 200mg/ml none better..
Alphamale500I'd like to first address using deca as a base. Using deca as a base for what stack? Personally, I've never heard of deca being necessary as a base for any stack. As far as I know, the only steroid that's really needed as a base for any stack is testosterone. That's if you're running your gear the right way. Deca is certainly useful in certain stacks, but not necessary as a base. But if your friends are saying that deca is necessary as a base for NPP, that's bullshit. NPP and deca are the same hormone with a different ester, that's all. As you said, deca being the long ester and NPP being the shorter ester.
I'm also a big tren and test fan, as well as NPP, but I've never been a fan of EQ. I like the effects of Nandrolone if stacked and run the right way for the effects I like. So, I don't really know anything about you so I'm not gonna recommend anything, but NPP will give the same kind of effects as deca, but at a faster pace.
Just to give an analogy, saying that you need deca as a base for NPP, is like saying you need tren enanthate as a base for tren acetate.
Think he is referring to running NPP while Decca esters are building up. Running NPP with decca, and obviously test, and around week 4 stop running the NPP, because now decca is fully loaded. Si?
Alphamale500Yeah, I understand using deca and NPP that way. But he was saying that he doesn't like deca, and his friends told him that he has to use deca as a base if he wants to run NPP. That's how I kinda understood it anyhow. I could of been wrong though. He wasn't fully clear, to me anyway.
He never said anything about “npp being a base for deca”
Alphamale500I know. Neither did I.??
This thread has some gold in it... should be a sticky
Love threads like these! I have yet to jump on a full Deca cycle but I have ran NPP and EQ a few different times and prefer NPP hands down. I get little to no sides and feel great, nice and full, low water retention. I will probably try a low test moderate Deca run some day. My experience with EQ was ok, long run that ended up with BP creeping up and had to donate a few times which was expected and should be done regardless of what compounds are being ran. I didn't think the risk vs reward was there for me and EQ.
To add, and I know this goes against what everyone reads on the net but deca, NPP and nandrolone E are also very good at cutting or recomping, for me anyway. I can go low cal and carbs and its seems to let me recomp well. Gaining muscle while deficient and cutting fat at the same time. Nandrolone is one of my favorite compounds to run and it has never given me any bad side effect. I am always happy, horny, and hungry on nan.
Who_CaresKGP you should put that on a tshirt " happy, horny, and hungry on nan" Hahahah
Great idea. It might be the next fad. Ill make one and wear it to the gym, see how it goes. Coming to a gym near you.
This turned into an awesome discussion...good info
For sure. Shines a light on deca in a different way. Good thread.
Defiantly
Who_CaresI learned so much on this thread. You all have completely changed my mind on these compounds especially deca. I was reluctant to post it because i thought i would get some flack for being so ignorant. Thanks for schoolibg me instead of spanking me.
People get scared of the deca dick thing so it is understandable..let me tell ya this..I'm using test e at 750 and deca at 600... I kicked with dbol at 50mg ed for 5 weeks..I'm in week 6 now... Because of the dbol by e2 shot up a little but I caught it early..I'm using adex and prami both at .5mg ed and added in proviron when the dbol was dropped at 25mg daily... this has been one of the best cycles I've ran and I'm only half way through...libido through the roof... No performance issues what so ever the complete opposite actually...I'm hoping to be able to lower my ai a little next week as with no dbol and the proviron I don't want my e2 to get to low because I want the gains that higher e2 allows you to make...you will be surprised as to how much shit happens to people who 1 don't do their research and 2 don't counter e2 prolactin etc... that's where the horror stories come from..you should have no issues bro because your doing your research and following advice...and if u do hit an issue you know where to turn for help..good luck bro keep us posted
Who_CaresThanks Monster i may just copy your cycle. If i didnt make this thread i would have never used deca. I dont recall who but one of us made a good point about EQ creating great endurance. Good food for thought.
Eq Will give you some good lean gains over time but if you wanna blow up a little quicker deca is the way to go...i lift heavy and my joints feel awesome which usually isn't the case...so again alot depends on your goals...eq also requires a longer cycle so your shut down longer which I'm not really a fan of
Just my opinion but i prefer Test and Tren. Great results and fast get the job done. Maybe I'm too compulsive!