+ 1 TRT at 29 unsure how to feel about it all
Stats
29 y.o
244 lbs
6ft
I'm really posting this as an avenue to vent my shit, and let you guys know my situation so maybe you can share your experiences with me, give me some hope and maybe help someone else.
So as far as I can tell as well as my doctors, my test levels are in the gutter and there's no underlying disease, or issue. I was honest and upfront with my doc about doing cycles when I was younger and he associated my low levels with improper use. That being said I considered my cycles to be well planned, had bloods pre, mid, pct, and post there was never any significant issues with lipids or estro and my free and total test always went back to just about my base levels. For reference my total was steady around 550-600 ng/ml and Free was around 80-90 pg/ml.
My last cycle was ran Nov 2016 which was Test 500/ eq 600 for a total of 20 weeks, see cycle log if u want any more info. In addition to the pct on my cycle log I ended up running my pct for 8 weeks rather than 4 because at the end of my 4-week pct total was only 220. After the 8 weeks of pct bloods drawn and I was still lower than my usual at 495 but I was ok with that.
I had an injury on my back at work, herniated, bulging, and fractured disks. I have a genetic disorder that involves all my connective tissue, basically my bones are all bone on bone, and my joints are dog shit. So that plays into why my injury was so severe. Now while going through all of this I slipped into a deep depression because I could go to the gym and was in pain all the time, and became a fat lazy slob bla blah blah.
Fast forward to a few months ago, got treatment on my back and was physically feeling great,but still depressed, no drive, ED problems, no libido. So I got off all the meds they had me on for my back, but all the issues still there. So after what felt like a decade of chasing symptoms doc ordered bloods and my Total was 228ng and Free 8.3pg.
He did hcg therapy for 8 weeks, during this time I cleaned up my diet. My calorie intake was 2500 Cal 60/20/20 protein/carb/fats which always cut me up. In 8 weeks of calorie deficit take 300 ius hcg twice a week, I only dropped 2 lbs. I was sure that my thyroid was fucked so he did just about every blood test available. Conclusion was all my levels were in normal range except my test. This time total was 288ng and Free 10.6pg.
I really was at the end of my rope I felt like I exhausted my resources and then my doc suggested injections. I had alot of mixed feelings about it because at 29 I'm looking at the next 40+ years of jabbing my ass weekly. That being said 40+ years of jabbing myself seemed alot better than the alternative which for me was suicide. I know that's drastic but I've had a history of mental health issues along with losing my brother at a young age, and I felt like there was no escape. I'm 3 weeks in at 200mg test cyp a week and 300ius hcg twice a week and I'm grateful to say that my drive for life is back, my dick works again, and my sex life has returned.
But I do know that this isn't a magic cure and there's going to be alot of work ahead of me.
So if anyone has any suggestions or experiences they want to share with me, I am open,just trying to find some dudes in similar situations who I can talk to.
I'm not one to post labs it makes me feel uncomfortable but if you want to know just ask me and I'll pull them up.
Thanks in advance.
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There's a lot of venting here for sure, but that's ok. It sounds like you're confused. The final decision is yours but with low T levels now it seems like you should be leaning to TRT IMO.
I didn't get on TRT until I was over 40, after I had chemo. It was life-changing. I started going to the gym, and now I can't imagine life without lifting. But get this: I EXPERIENCED SEX DRIVE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE when I started TRT. I think I was really low on T my whole life and my doctors weren't willing to address it. If I had gotten on TRT at a younger age, I honestly believe I wouldn't have been obese (I've lost most of the fat now), I would have avoided a shitload of suicidal depression, and I would have been a nicer person with actual friends. Sorry to sound all boo-hoo-hoo, but honestly I'm a completely different person now, and making up for my shitty 20's and 30's. Good for you getting this taken care of.
This is a really good post and I need to finally talk to my doctor about TRT. First I need to check my levels it’s been some time. The only time I checked was when I was on juice. But I battled a lot the past ten years and I see how much my body , mind, feelings, energy is changing. A big problem when I did my first few cycles in my teens I knew nothing about anything and never did any pct. I never took anything long enough so I thought I was fine after I found out about it. I got a gut which I never had in my life, sex drive is out , just want to stay in bed after work and watch movies and play Xbox. Don’t got the drive to go to the gym daily , finally eating better then I was . It’s alot I would have to type but a lot happened. I really did a number to my. Odd and I’m feeling it now. But lately I really been hearing a lot about TRT and I think I should talk to my doctor now that I finally have my own insurance. I’m in my 30s now I got to be more responsible . Now that I’m clean and sober I can really see the difference with myself . I got to do more research and talk to my doctor. If anyone wants to talk feel free to FR me . Thanks
Brother I know at your age it doesn't seem ideal but time goes faster the older you get. Just keep in mind that when your my age and beyond (I'm damn near 40) we are gonna have a better quality of life than other aging men not on trt. It's a fact that your T levels decline with age. I dunno about you but I definitely feel and see the benefits of exogenous testosterone. It's not that bad of a deal when you're over the hill (lol that rhymes)and you'll get there. I'm sorry you have to deal with that at such a young age but make the best of it bro. Definitely take suicide off the list of possible outcomes, I have lost dear friends to that myself and it's no way to go. Enjoy your one shot at life and be the best version of you that you can be. One of my best friends on trt just had a baby so all that is possible as well. Stay strong mentally and let your 200mg/wk and hcg (that's a very decent prescribed dose!) take care of the physical aspect of everything and don't look back. If the weekly jabs get old look into Testosterone Undecanoate...it can be used monthly. Stay up bro.
Dave_61Bro, at 40yrs old, I may be a little older than you but we have so much in common. I too did some cycles
when I was younger and thought I did everything right. Come to find out years later that from using those steroids, I had messed up my system and would have low T and everything that comes with it, for the rest of my life. With the right meds, I'm functioning like a perfectly normal man, in every sense.
I understand how bad it can get, but don't ever consider suicide. That's a coward's way out! Just stay positive and motivated, and just think how much worse it could be. Big deal, us guys have to take some medicine to live a normal healthy life. Who knows what advances they could make in years to come. And I've also had a couple major loses at an very early age, and I take an anti-depressant and anxiety meds. There are so many people who have it far worse bro!
Keep your head up, stay positive, and keep your ass in the gym.
Im 25 and on TRT as well. Was young and dumb and juiced at 17, more like abused. Did proper PCT but i guess i never came back. Stayed off for 4 years, got married, had a couple kids, then decided to find an endo as i felt like shit. Got tested and total T was 188 with e2 at 7. No wonder i felt so terrible.
For the next 2 years doc and i tried everything under the sun to get natty levels back up above 500 and to hold at 500. Did multiple runs of HCG, Clomid, and both combined. Levels would reach 350-500 but after a few months of no meds levels would drop back to low 200s.
Diet and cardio was on point, road mountain bikes 3-5 times a week. After that roller coaster we started the gel, that barely made a dent and was annoying as hell. Started looking into the pellets but insurance would not cover and was to expensive for me out of pocket. So doctor prescribed 100mg test cyp per week and been on ever since, going on 18 months now. Quality of life has improved 10 fold (energy, libido, outlook on life, pretty much everything). I run a maintenance dose and cycle from time to time.
This was one of those mistakes that really does stay with you for life, OP you are not alone.
Shredski, update us when you have time, please! Rooting for you.
As of right now I bailed on the doctor I was seeing because he refused to test e2 even when I complained of sensitive nipples and had the moon face going on. I know my body enough to know my e2 was elevated and 200mg a week was way too much but he refused to lower it or prescribe an AI. So I jumped ship at the moment I am self prescribed I'm taking 125mg a week and barely have any e2 sensitivity and if I do I just take a .25 adex and clear it up. Unfortunately I was rear-ended so now I'm dealing with a back and neck injury that's kept me from the gym for the last month but I'll be back this week. And as far as the self prescribing I'm only doing this because the idiot doc that I was seeing was scamming the system and took bloods at 5pm and insurance won't accept unless bloods are before 11am so basically I have to stop trt have. my levels drawn again once it's out of my system, and this is my busy season so I'm waiting until winter to do this so I won't have as much work to do in the process of getting my levels drop again. So yeah fun fun
I would look closely at those doses. This is a life long medication and using more then what your body needs for that amount of time is never a good idea. Keep working closely with your doctor and keep researching. 200 a week is a very generic and elevated dose from my experience. If you need it cool but make sure this dose fits YOU and your body. Less is more when dealing with stuff man.
As far as the mental health goes you need to see someone. Testosterone doesn’t cure a mental health disorder it can only possibly help the symptoms. Get to the root of your issues and be honest. It’s really the only way you’re gonna be happy in the long run. Good luck dude and keep driving forward.
I think you're using too much HCG. I have been told to only use 500-1000iu while on cycle. Prevention is better than a cure. But too much HCG can really mess with your natural LH production. I think it's bad on FSH as well. But don't quote me. Haven't been in a pharmacology class in many years. Will dig up my books if you need me to.
I have been on hormone replacement since I was 19. I was in a bad accident, and my pituitary was damaged. FR sent. I also took pharmacology in college. FR RANGERVET. He is a registered nurse who can help you out a lot. He has really helped me through my recent health battle.
Off topic, but because of your avatar. I see you are a fan of Skeletor.
I got to work on the 2007 He-Man movie that was to be made by WB, with Joel Silver as EP, before they sold it to SONY ran by racist feminist AMY PASCAL at the time.. UGH. Exciting times. Some of the best months of my life.
But you wouldn't believe how dumb companies are. At one time it was called Grayskull, and He-Man was gonna be a soldier. Not Prince Adam... UGH.. STICK TO THE SOURCE material. I'll tell you more in PM. Might still have some concept stuff left over.
Maybe HMG would restart the leydig cells. Talk to your Dr about it before you get too deep into TRT... Don't get me wrong... I love TRT... but nothing feels better then your natural test.
Hey mate, I know how you feel.
My levels were exactly the same at 24 and decided I couldn't live at that place for the rest of my life so made the leap into TRT. It's been a rollercoaster ride & have learnt a lot over the past 4yrs but month by month figuring out what works best for me.
Feel free to shoot me a message anytime if you've got any questions, more than happy to help however I can.
have you tried upping fats and adding zinc as well as lifting(which i assume you still do)? before trt i used this for some success . diet plays a huge role in hormones, i eat eggs and get good cholesterol., nuts and seeds ect.
Yeah I've doing well on trt dropped a bunch of bf and getting stronger. My diets been almost perfect low carbs and moderate protien/fats
Finally figured out how to post labs without my personal shit on it I'm usually technically inclined but my dome was fucked for a bit there lol
https://www.eroids.com/pics/pre-trt-bloods-1-year-post-pct
I wanna thank all you broski's for your experiences and info. Just figured I'd give you guys a little update. Tomorrow will be my 4th injection and I am happy to say I finally have a sex life again, and a drive to be alive so I'm really grateful. I'm gonna keep ridding it out with the drs orders and see how it all panes out.
Also should be cleared to go back to the gym in a week (had surgery on sinuses) so I'm really stoked about that.
What sort of sinus surgery? My allergies have been devastating me for years and I don’t smoke or anything anymore and I still struggle with sinus infections
Septopasty for a deviated septum worked like a charm so far. I went through nasal sprays, steroid injections in my nose, meds nothing really helped. Now my nose is clear food tastes better. Only downfall is my protien farts are even deadlier smelling now lol.
Welcome back to the world man. Well done.
honestly man, this resonates so much with me. About to turn 31, had low T all my life(got offered Test at 18, but declined, because I was an idiot who thought drugs were bad) and that doctor retired. And boom, feel like shit/get fat easy/no sex drive tried to get test again and the drs aint interested. So got it myself.
Went from low sex drive, depressed and low energy to feeling how I imagine I'm supposed to feel. Shit's great and I know injecting is annoying, but look at it this way: As science progresses there'll likely be new breakthroughs and better ways to manage hormones. So it might just be 20 years of injecting and I'd say injecting is a small price to pay for feeling better/normal.
My main advice would be to check for BP/heart health/lipids, even low dosses of T can cause issues. I recently got ages garlic/coq10/vitamin k2 and after 10 days I've noticed improvements, which is the first time I've ever noticed something off OTC supplements. So it might be worth checking out. examine.com is a fantastic website for this.
Sorry to hear your story. Its not all that uncommon unfortunately.
Has the depression lifted immediately upon TRT?
Yeah it was almost immediately it was like a breath of fresh air. Not sure exactly when but deff within the first week.
I can tell you from personal experience that you should only take test if you truly need it. Try all methods to raise natural test before you go that route. I myself have been on test straight for ten years. So that began at 25. Alot of the reasons my test is fried Is because of poor knowledge and not knowing what I was doing. Not doing a pct many times or not taking anti-es as needed. I only take 150 mg a week to supplement. And that puts me at around 900. I would prefer not to take test all the time if I don't have to but if you need it take it. As long as your not putting your levels to high on try you will be ok but you can't take 300 mg or anything to high for trt.
In 3-4 weeks all the low T problems your having will go away. Why deal with low libido and a limp dick at 29? You guys demonize one shot a week like its the end of the world but you guys will pin yourself every other day for 12weeks. It takes as long to give yourself a shot as it does for me to take my blood pressure meds. If you have a medical problem fix it. Dont piss around with hcg and clomid for 6months only to end up right back were you started. I would be at cvs today pickin up my test script.
Total bullshit reply. So what happens next after you attack the symptoms and didn't bother to investigate and treat the cause? You are now on a path that will permanently make you dependant on exogenous test.
How are you handling your estrogen and RBC count?
What if it proves to be another health issue causing the low T like your thyroid, weight, or even diet and stress?
Us guys demonize stupid. Without following a proper doctors advice and protocol, you're more apt to make a bad situation worse.
What a cavalier bullshit comment. You would not have a script because you decided to self diagnose. you would be looking for UGL sources for life.
If anyone with HPG problems or who is low test ever reads this nonsense.... IGNORE IT. These are idiotic words. TRT is for life and comes with a need for physical, mental, financial and emotional commitments. Always seek medical advice from a true TRT expert, who wont let you engage in it until all avenues have been explored, which likely includes clomid therapy and many other supplemental/nutritional/lifestyle options.
Well said.
Cheers Sam.
Im not necessarily trying to bash the guy its just that for many, when low test leads to low estrogen, depression/suicidal ideation etc can become real, real fast. It deserves more respect.
Agreed. The OP clearly has a complex condition with multiple symptoms and interdependencies. He’s got a group of doctors with multiple specialities consulting so while he’s young for trt for sure I’m deferring to them and don’t think anyone on here should be second guessing!
My advice would be to fight TRT tooth and nail, for as long as you can. There’s no coming back. TRT means your chained to the needle for the rest of your life. Avoid that at all cost.
basskiller89I messed up my endocrine system brother. I started using steroids at 25 and my natural test doesn't work. I cycle a couple times a year, but when I'm off my test is always around 200-400ngs. I'm holding off on actual TRT for as long as I can
And don't base your mood off of thoughts. Just because you think something, doesn't mean it's important. You are in control of your thoughts. Example honestly I don't like going to the gym...so I don't ask myself how I feel about the gym I just get dressed and ignore my thoughts..i go to gym and do it regardless of how I feel. Sounds to me like your letting your thoughts control you. You have thousands of thoughts a day, learn to ignore the bad thoughts and listen to your good ones. Takes a little practice but your the boss. Not the voice in the back of your head.
I get where ur coming from but I have absolutely no control over my thoughts. I have control on how I respond to them. But if I see some smoking hot broad half naked bent over in front of me at the gym, there is absolutely no way I would ever control my thoughts to not think "I want to fuck er right in the pussy" but I can walk away and tell my self "down boy , you have a smokin hot woman at home" ya digg? Lol
Advice and choices
1. Start Clomid and hcg and attempt to raise your test levels and get your balls to work again on their own
2. Take a injection weekly and thank God this is treatable and not cancer or some bad stuff
3. Do nothing and be miserable
Mental health issues and steroids aren’t a good mix. Try doing some heavy leg work and loose a few pounds . Then retest.
+2 there has been a lot of folks that have come and gone here that had mental issues and were or are taking aas. They dissappeared and we havent heard from them since. Hormones control a lot more then muscle growth in men and women, mood is the number one other controller. Ask flash about it, he will tell you.
This. 100% bang on the money.
Living4ThePumpI'm in the same boat as you with around 260 ng/dl. I never touched any steroids or anything like that. Have been running from one doc to another to find a competent one, but I haven't yet. That's why I joined this forum. I'm from Germany and it seems here's no doc who has a idea of the male organism and it's hormones. Even an endo I visited said there's nothing that needs to be treated with 260 ng/dl at my age, since it's still in range, right (;
So sadly I only see the self medicate route to help myself.
But regarding your question, I would like to have some more labs like LH/FSH to see if your testicles work or if there's a problem with your HPTA axis. If so, you could try a restart of your HPTA and maybe you're lucky and don't need to use test. If your LH and FSH are fine, like me, Testosterone will be needed. LH and FSH testing will be useless now, since you're already on Testosterone. Also E2 testing would be interesting, as well as prolactin,SHBG and a thyroid profile. These hormones are my staple for hormone testing. If thyroid is a mess that can well lead to other problems.
Hope that helped a bit. Greetings
These are the # before I started try
LH 5.0mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.601
FSH 5.1mIU/mL 1.5 - 12.401
Lipids are perfect
E2 20.3pg/mL 7.6 - 42.6
(T4) 7.6ug/dL 4.5 - 12.001
(T3) 128ng/dL 71 - 18001
Shbg 38.7nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9
No prolactin drawn
Living4ThePumpDid you ever test FT3,FT4 and TSH.Since LH and FSH are ok, it must be your testicles that don't work 100% right. Did you ever had a stimulation test with LH ?
Tsh 0.716uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500
And only totals on t3/t4 not free
And no stim test with LH
Living4ThePumpTSH doesn't indicate a thyroid problem. Did you have yur testicles checked ? Ultrasound etc ?
Yeah the only thing they found in ultrasound is a vericos vein or what ever but super small
Hey man, a little background on myself. Been on trt since 2016, 30 at the time, i'm now 32. It was a life changer for me. My levels when first tested was 164.
Now, on to the varicose veins surrounding my left nut. The cause of my low t was originally diagnose as severe blunt force trauma to the balls. Right nut is mush, left nut is surrounded in varicose veins. First urologist suggested that my high body fat and varicose veins are causing the low t. I was unhappy with my treatment from PP and Specialist. So, I went to a more experience physician, he pointed out that my low-T is mostly likely not caused by the varicose veins around the testicle. Even went as far to stretch out the skin to really show the testicle and pointed out, that its healthy, has only shrunk 3/4 size since on trt and that most people do not have an issue with it.
The doc gave me some good reading on it, so i will try to post it up soon.
Living4ThePumpMaybe that's the problem. Who knows. It's your decision whether you want to pin lifetime or not. If you feel better I guess it's worth it.
What sort of a doc have you been seeing. Is he an endo or something else? Anti-aging? Be honest it’s the only way we can help.
At 29 and with a history of steroid use (and I assume opioid base pain relief for your bad back) a proper endo who specialises in this type of issue would have 100% tried you an a proper medium term (I’m talking 6 month) reboot which from what you’ve described is not the case.
Something is not right so let’s discuss.
It's an endo, but the place I go to has a group of doctors that create a plan together, and basically because of my genetic disorder and my bodies rapid decline with connective tissue they thought it would be in my best interest to try trt to help out with all my symptoms while addressing all my joints issues and then possibly have to go the regenerative route, stem cells and all that crazy shit.
I have a history of opoid abuse when I was younger I've been clean since 20, so opoid pain meds were not a choice I was willing to take. And they had me on these nerve pain meds. I forgot to add that because of the break down of my spine(from my disorder which is stickler syndrome is you wanna Google it) my arms and legs were going numb and I was having troubles walking, it was complete insanity.
Not sure if that's enough info for you.
Right thank you that is plenty of info.
Sounds like you have a good team of Doctors working your problem so I would follow their advice. From your labs above I wonder if you have a partial primary hypogonadism or a developing primary hypogonadism (although this would be very unusual but not impossible). You’re getting good stimulation at the pituitary (LH/FSH) are all good for your age but this is not translating into testosterone production in the testes. Ever had a hard knock to the testes or some form of trauma there? Could be from long ago or more revelry. I assume you have fully developed secondary male sexual characteristics - deep voice, facial hair, pubic hair etc?
200mg per week is high but it is not unusual for the first 4 weeks of treatment but after then I would expect you to drop back to 100mg per week especially with the added HCG which indicently I agree with given you may want to have children in the future and this should provide a good chance of maintaining enough inter testicular testosterone and allow spermatogenesis to be maintained.
So brother I wish you the best of luck with your treatment and chin-up.
Thanks brother. As far as testicular trama nothing crazy just a ball tap here or there. But yeah I have all the secondary sexual characteristics. One thing that also has happened recently is severe hair thinning but Dht is 36
RustyhookerA real dr put you on 200mg per week? And hcg?
What meds for back? How long off them?