+ 2 Receptor tolerance
I'd like to hear thoughts on receptors. There's convincing arguments on both sides regarding shutdown, blockage, filled, etc . I'm on a hefty TRT dose, prescribed from a clinic, 200mg cypionate weekly with ancillaries. I typically run a nandralone with more test when I blast, kicked with dianabol. As time goes on, it definitely seems like the compounds don't kick in quite the same. Don't get me wrong, there's great results and I feel fantastic. Well, sometimes shitty but thats another topic. I get that nothing is like your first run, but are we talking a general tolerance to the medication, receptor shutdown or filling, something completely different? I'm almost a month in to my current cycle (first time giving short esters a go) and I feel like I'm already at the end of one of my typical blasts. I'd like to get a little more out of it, and I do keep my dosages conservative as I'm on cypionate year round. Is it just a matter of bumping the numbers up?
- Bookmark
- 2
- 0
I am right with you Molinin as for cruising but I run a modest 100mg/week of doc prescribed pharmacy obtained cyp. This dose does exactly what it it designed to do as far as expected TRT protocol. I also run shirt 8-10 week blasts than return back the cruise and I have notices that I do not meet the same expectations that I have in the past. Is this a receptor issue ?? I think not IMO because I can still feel all of the sides as my hormone levels ratches up and down throughout the cycle. Plus I still have the same Same end result once all of the smoke clears and I am back to my cruise levels.
So IMO everyone's receptors pretty much have the same task but I firmly believe as our bodies change ( with age that is ) our bodys ability to process the compounds we are putting them also changes. Three years back I had much different sides/results than I do today and I usually stick to the same two blasts alternating from time to time.
I'll break this down for you in laymen terms. Your receptors don't actually down regulate during AAS usage. Your receptors actually up regulate. Your body increases myostatin production which inhibits you from gaining more muscle.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27246614/
This isn't entirely true. i.e. It isn't as black and white as this.
Upregulation and downregulation do happen, depending on the body's needs. Yes they upregulate during AAS usage (chronic overstimulation), but that upregulation can be downregulated (evident from TRT studies, but to a functional baseline) too. It can also be downregulated below baseline.
Remember, the body is aiming for homeostasis at all times, fighting what we do/want when using supra doses of AAS. Te body wants to be 140lbs not 300lbs of granite.
Now despite what I said about downregulating below base, the downregulation never gets rid of all receptors and never stops all of the downstream (inside the cell) actions caused by receptors. Receptors are constantly being made, destroyed, up and down regulated, but also re-used too (bind unbind rebind new-bind).
P.S.
this isn't my info, I had a chat with a neuroscientist about it.
Thank you for this explanation. I am not a biochemist so a lot of the material I read doesn't get fully comprehended. The human body is a complex machine. It is quite fascinating.
Molinin302Thanks, this was explained how I needed and was my understanding of it.
I had to get it spelled out for me, it confirmed my layman's understanding of it, same as yourself.
Even though your right , Don't be condescending .
Bad Achak Bad Achak.
I didn't mean for it to come off as condescending. I for the longest time believed receptors down regulated from AAS. That what people were saying for as long as I can remember. I stumbled upon a video that discussed the study that I linked. I will be more aware of how I respond. Some times my matter the fact approach can be taken wrong.
lol your a good sport bro .
You seem like a good addition to these forums.
You and Press are great. You guys have me cracking up with some of your posts. I love this site. It pushes me to expand my knowledge on everything related to AAS and bodybuilding. I read a post and immediately go into research mode. I try to convey as much accurate and helpful information as possible. I learn something new on this site everyday. It is a great distraction while at work. This site and the hot Colombian I am talking to entertain me daily.
AnonIf I could direct your attention to the "wifey" group good sir..this is where the hot Columbian belongs.
Haha I can't wait to get her on a cycle of anavar. I am posting a picture of her in the group.
AnonMy girl won't do it! She's this beautiful mixed complexion, big ol tiddies young thing and she sent me all sorts of nudes right away...but she won't let random anonymous people on here see them? I'm working on it. She's proud of how she looks, I don't get it... she'll cave one day...
I posted a PG-13 pic. A nude would require permission. We just started talking so it is too early to make that request.
Molinin302I'll post some of my girlfriend. Not wife, girlfriend. Sexy Puerto Rican woman. Nice thick ass. Just had surgery yesterday actually.
You might find this worth looking into
You can drop down and read the tldw
https://youtu.be/7Gzd5QmP8K0
Studies at the very bottom
Actually AR receptors def. don´t downregulate and also they don´t come close to max occupancy. BUT some things are happening that cause diminishing effects over time:
1) with higher dosages gene expression simple runs at almos maximum capacity (and each gene is just there twice per cell) and you can´t really increase its expression much more (esp. pertaining to myofibril genes in muscles)
2) what you probably mean by "they don´t kick in quite the same": as for neural/mental effects (energy, drive, libido) there def. is receptor downregulation, but not of AR but of dopamine receptors (androgens are a strong stimulant of dopamine signalling) and thus over time this honeymoon period of high energy and drive and libido simply diminishes as the strong initial increase in dopamine signalling is counterregulated.
What exactly is it about receptors you want to know M?
Or is it more you want to know why things aren't going the way you want?
Receptors are goo on the outside of cells.
They are 1 single piece of a highly complex series of events and cascades.
Molinin302I just see two opposite trains of thought on saturation. Im getting the gains i want, well, more is always better.but over time it just seems to not hit as hard. Im curious what other mechanisms are in place here. Is it beneficial to even jump off TRT for a month and use viagra to "reset"? Or is there really no reset? The research isn't solid. Im hoping for answers based on experience.
Wrt trt, be careful as u don't want to end up depressed etc.
However. People take medication holidays all the time and for lots of reasons.
If upur trt is not effective, thats different from test isnt building muscle mass.
Honestly, I think you need to separate the 2.
Understood. I hear you man...
Its way more complicated than just 'receptors'. There are antagonists too that we don't know much about like foxo's.
How cells work, how hormone systems works, how metabolism (energy), protein balance etc, works... all factors. When someone blames 1 single part of a multifaceted system, it can all be a little too simple.
1 thing is sure, whatever you do, the body adapts, thats how we grow, thats how we plateau. Genetics matter. Also there are limits to pretty much everything in life too.
If you want to know how andrology works, read behre and nieschlags books: andrology, and also: testostsrone.
What is your experience with myostatin inhibitors?
Theres a ton of solid research on it. Google "androgen receptor upregulation" ton of info. You won't "burn out" or need to "reset" AR. The cell will just create more.
Refer to Broderick Chavez on YouTube or facebook/insta. Hes the expert on the subject. He claims the research shows you'll never come close to utilizing all ARs.
Molinin302Will definitely check him out, thanks.
AnonWhy not use something new? Try adding a touch of mast to your cycle or some proviron to free up more of the test?
Molinin302I have it ready to go actually, masteron. Equipoise and some deca. I stocked up right before the gyms closed. Doing quick blasts with short esters, may give it a go im done with the diababol already, going to jump back on at the end as advised. I'm on the bus home and my back is a knot as I'm typing this lol. So yeah, just test and NPP. Masteron wouldn't hurt especially since my diet is very clean. I'm going for lean gains with these shorrt runs.
Quality of product is a big one dude when your dealing with UGL's its unreliable as I'm sure you know all to well, over the years I've found a small hand full of sources that deliver consistent quality.
With out getting all scientific about it , I'll say with out a doubt over time you build up tolerances to aas . Is it your receptors getting burnt out , or is it just your particular constitution that gives you more or less tolerance idk .
But I do know that the sides get more manageable over time as well which is a good thing , The one PED I've never seemed to build a tolerance to is HGH now that I think about it I wonder if other people feel the same about that.
I haven’t noticed a tolerance to HGH yet and I’ve been running it for about 17 months straight. I just tolerate the sides, mainly CTS, better. I vary the dose depending on on or off cycle and PCT
Try mixing it up. Usually you kick with dbol and run deca or npp, try deca with an npp kick, and add the dbol for the last 4 weeks instead of the first. Same amount of drugs, but probably more late cycle gains that way.
When I kick deca with npp I do it for 6 weeks
Molinin302Thats a plan, thanks man