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the_gainz
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+ 5 Testosterone for depression

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I do not advocate trying to fix mental health problems with steroids, but an interesting concept nonetheless. Published in JAMA Psychiatry

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/905320

Testosterone treatment, especially at higher dosages, may reduce depressive symptoms in men, new research suggests.
Investigators analyzed 27 randomized controlled trials (RCTs) that included almost 1900 men and found that those patients who were treated with testosterone were more than twice as likely to experience a reduction in depressive symptoms compared to their counterparts who received placebo.

The effect was particularly pronounced at higher doses.
These findings remained even when variables such as age, depressive burden, and gonadal status were taken into account. The only two relevant variables were dosage and symptom variability.
"The main findings are that testosterone significantly reduces depressive symptoms compared to placebo, and with testosterone, men are 2.3 times more likely to show clinically relevant symptom reduction compared to placebo," lead author Andreas Walther, PhD, professor of biological psychiatry, Technische Universität Dresden, Germany, told Medscape Medical News.

Moreover, "although many possible influencing variables were investigated, the dosage and symptom variability were the only moderators identified — that is, when higher dosage regimens were administered and the men within the studies showed similar depressive burden in which all were very depressed or had only a low depressive burden, the effects were greater," he said.
The study was published online November 14 in JAMA Psychiatry.
Protective Effect?

"Testosterone is a neuroactive hormone that influences numerous behavioral patterns, such as libido or aggression," said Walther.

However, it is believed that testosterone also has a positive effect on neuroplasticity and thus protects the brain through increased neuronal survival, making it more adaptable and better able to cope with depressive symptoms.
"It has long been discussed whether low testosterone levels in men are associated with increased depressive symptoms," Walther noted, but "this association has only been observed in some subgroups of men, such as dysthymic or treatment-resistant depressive men," he added.
Nevertheless, "there have been several studies that have attempted to apply testosterone to improve mood, but the results were very mixed [so we] wanted to compile all these findings to identify the true effect of testosterone in depressive symptoms in men."
To investigate the question, the researchers analyzed 27 RCTs (n = 1890 men), chosen via a stepwise process of elimination from 7690 identified records.
To qualify for inclusion, a study was required to employ an RCT design in which testosterone was administered to patients who reported on mood both before and after the intervention.
Studies also were required to contain original or validated psychometric depression outcomes (eg, the Beck Depression Inventory [BDI] score).
Comparable to Antidepressants

The researchers found that compared to placebo, testosterone treatment was accompanied by a significant difference of Hedges g of 0.21 SD (SE, 0.05; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.10 - 0.32; z = 3.87; P < .001) in depressive symptoms.
This effect translated into a 2.2-point reduction in BDI-II score.
Moreover, these effects exceed the efficacy thresholds for pharmacotherapies for depression proposed by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) guidelines, in which a reduction of 3.0 and 2.0 points is considered to be clinically significant for normal depression and treatment-resistant depression, respectively.
Although the effects do not exceed the NICE guideline regarding treatment-responsive depression, they are comparable to reported efficacy measures of current antidepressants, the authors note.
In many of the analyzed studies, testosterone served as an adjunct medication, which would "support the incremental clinical utility of testosterone treatment in the absence of small-study effects," they add.
There were no statistically significant differences in risk of attrition when participants received testosterone vs placebo (odds ratio, 0.79; 95% CI, 0.61 - 1.01).
The researchers expressed concern about bias in the studies analyzed. The investigators' risk-of-bias assessment revealed that "few" RCTs were at low risk for bias, primarily owing to a lack of details about randomization procedures, as well as allocation concealment and incomplete outcome measures.
On the other hand, with regard to treatment effectiveness, the portion of true heterogeneity was estimated to amount to an I 2 of 18.7% of the total effect variability (τ, 0.11; χ2 25 = 31.20; P = .18) — a finding that is "comparable to other meta-analyses on pharmacologic treatment of mental health outcomes."
Meta-regression analysis revealed that testosterone dosage and lower symptom variability at baseline could have moderated the testosterone treatment–related difference in posttreatment depressive symptoms.
However, "by contrast, the analyses provided little evidence for a pronounced association with age, baseline testosterone level, depression status, HIV infection, treatment duration, and the route of testosterone administration," the investigators write.
Thus, on the basis of these exploratory analyses, the final precision-adjusted meta-regression model was informed by testosterone dose (β = 0.08 SD per each additional 100 mg/week; SE, 0.03) as well as baseline symptom variability (β = -0.12 SD per each additional 25% symptom variability; SE, 0.08; P = .01) of the estimated true effect heterogeneity.
Even with this adjustment, the residual portion of effect heterogeneity continued to amount to an I 2 of 72.0%(τ, 0.41; χ2 23 = 66.10; P < .001).
On the basis of this model, 500 mg/week of testosterone treatment, at a symptom variability of 20%, was estimated to result in a Hedges g of 0.52 (SE = 0.23; 95% CI, 0.08 - 0.96).
On the other hand, the outcome of testosterone treatment with 200 mg/week at a symptom variability of 50% was estimated to amount to only a Hedges g of 0.15 SD (SE, 0.18; 95% CI, -0.21 to 0.51).
Despite these encouraging findings, "it is important to note that the studies are very heterogeneous, and some of them also have a high risk of bias. Therefore, the findings must be interpreted carefully, and a need for more high-quality randomized controlled trials to examine primary depressive symptoms is needed," Walther cautioned.
Potential Dangers

Commenting on the study for Medscape Medical News, Harrison G. Pope Jr, MD, professor of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts, and director, Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, Massachusetts, who was not involved with the research, said that there is a "great deal of background noise in this picture, in terms of the data."
Although it is "likely true that, on average, testosterone has some weak antidepressant effects. It is difficult to draw much further conclusions about who to treat, when to treat, and how much to use," he said.
He noted that the "weak antidepressant effect is probably effective in certain subgroups of people — perhaps in those with mild chronic depression rather than full-scale depressive illness, where symptoms come on more abruptly."
In addition, the researchers state that testosterone treatment remains significant when a dose greater than 500 mg/week is administered.
"The natural male testis produces only about 50 to 75 mg/week. Thus, this dose is much greater than what an ordinary endocrinologist would administer when treating hypogonadism and even more than the range used by illicit anabolic steroid users and body builders trying to gain muscle mass," he said.
He was therefore "surprised" that "anyone would consider these dosages because, when you get into that range, the potential dangers of testosterone begin to increase."
The authors of an accompanying editorial similarly state that the "available data do not support the use of testosterone treatment, especially in supraphysiologic doses, for the treatment of depressive disorders in men."
The editorialists advise clinicians to follow the Endocrine Society clinical practice guideline for testosterone replacement therapy of androgen-deficient men.
These guidelines do not recommend testosterone therapy for treating depressive symptoms.
Walther acknowledged that it is "important for clinicians to know that it is not yet time to prescribe testosterone to men with elevated depressive symptoms [because] more research on this and the safety of testosterone treatment is needed."
However, "if these studies continue to support the findings and the risks are shown to be low, testosterone could be used as an adjunct treatment in the treatment of depressive disorders in specific groups of men."
No source of funding for the study has been reported. Dr Walther and coauthors have disclosed no relevant financial relationships. Dr Pope received funding from the National Institute on Drug Abuse for studies of long-term effects of high-dose anabolic steroids on the nervous system. Relevant financial relationships of the editorialists are listed on the original article.

Kgp's picture

Yes, having suffered from low T, i know how it feels. You lose so much. Sex drive, ambition, motivation, always tired, never really happy and outgoing. I don't think test should be used as something to fight depression but it is definitely a life savor for those facing low t.

Chappy747's picture

after struggling with pain killer abuse after an accident I was left with low test from the opioids, stayed clean and 4 years later and it never went up much and I tried every test booster ever and I was becoming increasingly depressed and unmotivated until I was prescribed T.R.T, the last year of my life ive made a complete 180 in every area of my life and I look better than I did in my 20s and have more drive for life than ive ever had

Protein4breakfast's picture

Good contribution I always love to read studies. I do agree that after getting on testosterone my depression improved because I had low T. It helped but def didn’t eliminate it. Depression is such a complex issue and Doctors are not even 100% sure how anti-depressants work. I’ve tried just about all of them and they didn’t help always made me flat. I had a psychiatrist tell me to try Sam E, vitamin D and b12 injections and it’s helped me more that the pills did. Good topic thanks for posting!

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johnmarshall12's picture

Studies have shown for years that Testosterone elevates mood in men. However, depression is a very complex thing and has many facets. So, Testosterone is but one tool in a complex bag that can require many in some individuals.

SSI drugs seem to help a lot of people who have chemical imbalances in their brains. Ten people can be depressed and all for different reasons and by different causes.

AAS users can easily get depressed after a cycle as hormone levels drop so quickly. It takes a while for PCT to really kick in and for us to return to normal levels. We also can get depressed off cycle as we miss the rush that Steroids provide! The feeling of getting bigger and stronger every day. It can be depressing not to be Superman. So Test in high doses can be a double edged sword!

JugulrTRENsuspension's picture

I agree with your pct statement. Thays why i like to do shorter cycles. So people dont see good gains but i do on short esters and front loading a little

Goose24's picture

A heroin addic would say more heroin is what makes them not depressed anymore

A crack head would say more crack would make them not depressed anymore

My point is any one person can point at any one thing and say it helped them overcome depression. However if you're actually clinically depressed there's a lot more going on with your brain than just needing a fix of test, crack or heroin.

Just my .02... I've grown up with people who seemed to have it all, and life by the balls then the next day they hang themselves or blow their brains out. Personally I don't understand it but they must be in a awful place (mentally) to do something like that. Sad really :/

kibby's picture

I honestly hand on heart can relate to this goose.

In my work I have no logical reason for my anxiety and depression ......I want for nothing and consider myself the richest man on the planet.

It just doesn't make sense to me and I struggle to get my head around

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press1's picture

I must say mate I'm very surprised to hear that you suffer from depression so much - You've always come across to me to be one of the much more happy and positive members on here whenever I've spoken to you in PM. I just wouldn't overthink things and judge yourself too much man - your cool enough to me Bud!! Smile

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kibby's picture

Thanks man means alot.

The truth is you can be the badest man on the planet but you get struck down with anxiety and depression and it can bring you to your knees I've never realy been that open about it but the last month or so has been very difficult for my and my symptoms are almost unmanageable.

The last straw for me was 2 weeks ago when the doctor said "but your a big lad you need to man up". I wanted to literally rip his throat out out. Luckily for me I've got a new doctor who's son has it bad and knows how important his decisions towards my treatment are. Plus I have to thanks .......

Dacky
ZuesM

These guys are fucking awsome (full homo) they've taken the time to help me through this shity time and I'm eternaly grateful.

I'm on the right track bro it's just going to take time mate

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Dacky's picture

Just reading this now. I’ve got your back fella and you’ve got mine 100%. You’ve got this and solutions can be found - there is always hope my friend :-) Glad things are settling and slotting into place now. Long may it last!

kibby's picture

Cheers brother really appreciate your help mate

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zeusmarada's picture

Dude, you DROPPED ME with the (full homo) comment. I laughed to tears. You're a funny man, Kibby.

Wishing you well, brother. Humor helps. Don't watch the news, just watch comedy. Seriously, when I get insomnia, I walk on a treadmill at a whopping 3.2mph and watch Netflix on my phone with headphones in.

If you like Dave Chapelle but haven't seen his specials from earlier this year (Netflix) then make that happen. Laughter is damn good medicine indeed. (So is fresh salmon out of the oven with asparagus, but that's just the happy inner fat kid in me saying that...)

zeusmarada's picture

Everything is an experiment, brother! This site has given us the data to know some experiments aren't worth running. "Do a gram of tren per week, and add a gram of EQ! See the results!" The results of that experiment are death. Don't run that experiment!

But other things like sleep, diet, exercise, these are things we can tweak, then gather the data accordingly! I really hope you give the "no sugar" approach a try, just to see. Kibby, my depression was literally crippling. If I can help you, even by lifting 10% of the load from your shoulders, then it's worth all the years of posting I've done on this site! Depression is the worst. We can't beat it alone.

zeusmarada's picture

Chemical depression has nothing to do with happiness. NOTHING! Everything can be "fine" in a persons world, but if your grey matter hits you with those chemicals you might as well have a 500lb squat bar on your back at all times.

In my own world, I get chemical anxiety and depression worse than the average person. I've done every prescription pill a person can do and none of them seemed to help.

It changed with two factors. TRT, and diet (going sugar free).

Testosterone helped me, for sure. It wiped the brain fog away and let my body heal, finally, from years and years of wear and tear.

Then, I gave up processed sugar completely. Not carbs (until later in life) entirely, but just sugar.

Holy shit, my depression and anxiety completely went away. Gone. Gonzo, adios, no more to be seen.

If I'd have known that ice cream and cookies made me feel that shitty, I'd have gone paleo a long, long time ago.

Sure, there are men who will read this and say shit like, "I'd never give up carbs!" Yes you would, with no problems, if you felt the way I felt. It's not even a sacrifice. It's so easy, it defies logic.

If you're a person struggling with depression, take my words with a grain of salt. I actually LIKE eating meat & veggies, and when you stick to real foods, you can cook your veggies in bacon grease or butter, and you feel GREAT (assuming you're sugar free).

I love meat, especially bacon, and I love veggies cooked in bacon fat. I could eat bacon & veggies forever and never grow tired of that as my diet. Ever. Obviously knowing this about me, you can see that me giving up sweets and such has been no problem. Zero. I LOVE to eat REAL FOOD. It is so stinking satisfying and delicious, I feel like my meals are a guilty pleasure.

Lastly, when I stayed consistent in the gym, depression was manageable. The big three lifts always released the most dopamine for me and helped me by literally chemically altering my mood. I had to lift heavy ''til failure, always. The other thing that worked was lots of reps until I hit the burn. Once I had the burn, the brain released its magical concoction of depression fighting potion and life was good.

(Translation: Depressed? GIVE UP SUGAR AND LIFT HARD. It works.)

IrishMack's picture

Congrats on finding a way to deal with your depression. Its unfortunate that you cant say it was the trt that did it or the cutout of sugar or the combination of the two. I bet more on the line it was the processed sugar that did it.

zeusmarada's picture

Mack, there's no doubt in my mind, test did NOT cure my depression.

I repeat, testosterone did NOT cure my depression.

Here's the catch. It played it's part for my body, and it certainly helped me heal. I was broken as hell when I started using test, I finally could heal. I was able to push myself harder in the gym, which allowed me to pay attention to my body closer. My brain fog lifted and I was finally able to have the clarity to pay attention to my diet closer. (I know it sounds like I was a stoner who suddenly went clean for a few months or something, but looking back, that's honestly how I felt. My brain worked, I started asking myself big questions about my own diet & training, and bam, I figured out the cause of my own chemical depression. Only took me 40 years, but hey, we all get to where we gotta get by taking one step at a time.)

To men reading this, Low T sucks. It's real, it fucking blows, I get it. However, there are a few avenues to pursue before putting testosterone into your body. Exhaust those avenues before going TRT, please! Ask me how I know. Low T can have depression, but it's not an exclusive club.

So let's get back to depression. To the men who suffer from true brain chemical depression, not just stress and sadness (which still sucks, but it's not the same as chemical depression), I'm here to encourage you.

Please understand that TIME IS YOUR ALLY.

If you give up sugar for a week, you won't know the real benefits compared to giving up sugar for four months. Same goes for lifting, duh. You can have a great workout, but it's the consistency that adds up. The cumulative effect of diet & exercise are what have the best effect for your day to day chemical levels.

Run the experiment. It's cheaper than buying depression drugs from your pharmacist. If the diet/sugar experiment works, welcome to Zeus's "No Chemical Depression from Sugar Club!" (Current membership is one, but I'm hoping other men join me in this Everyone Welcome Club.) If the experiment doesn't work and you indeed need drugs, you'll at least know.

As sincere as I can be, I really hope this helps. Depression fucking sucks. If it's something as simple as giving up sugar, then ZeusM just gave you your life back. Much love to all who suffer. There's hope. Don't take your light from us. We need your strength.

IrishMack's picture

I misread your post a bit, my bad. I have to completely agree with you about the sugar, processed foods are your biggest enemy as well. Even if you dont go to the gym that shit is so full of chemicals. Sugar is made by using chems like bleach and other garbage. if you want sweet you are better off buying the sugar cane as a plant and use the juice. I have and its not as sweet but it still adds a bit.

We are what we eat and certain foods effect the receptors of the brain which can either be good or bad.

+2.

kibby's picture

Pm coming your way Zeus ;)

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zeusmarada's picture

Replied, and I got your back, brother!

KMC's picture

It is a double edged sword.
It would depend on the cause of the depression.

*From personal experience, with a undiagnosed thyroid problem, testosterone would only wake up my mind to the point of realizing how bad things were and then push me closer to suicide. But everyone is different.

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giardap's picture

This is on the back of work done by a researcher by a testosterone guru, Bhasin. People here should read as much of his work as possible. I really mean that, he is a fountain of knowledge.

However, his recent work is a departure from his specialty and has spawned this type of study. BUT... if you read carefully you will notice the psych-oriented guys in OP's study (as opposed to Bhasin who is a hormone-oriented researcher) have understood things a little better. You can see it in the terms they use: "depressive symptoms".

Test cannot treat clinical depression. Therefore the title of this post is inaccurate and is the type of thing that will have lads all over the web saying test can treat depression. It cannot. Now that said, it is well documented that it is neuroprotective at the right levels (too much and it is actually toxic) and apparently is a positive for neuroplasticity too but not to a point where you see the results you see with a drug like psilocybin for example.

What it can do is, by getting back to balance/induced homeostasis, it can treat depressive symptoms (which are not = depression) in men who experience them due to low estrogen caused by low testosterone.

This is a cascade of effects. It is not a mental health problem directly, but symptoms caused by an underlying hormonal issue, caused by some form of hypogonadism and so on.

It is really important that people understand that difference imo. And... anyone who has ever experienced either low estrogen induced depressive symptoms and separately; depression... will understand the difference... but people who have experienced both at the same time... will understand why it is such horseshit to say testo treats depression and why it is dangerous not to distinguish. (I am not trying to be alarmist, it's just that clinical depression is such a dangerous fkn bastard of a thing).

IrishMack's picture

Agreed. If you take a guy who is out of shape or not happy wit the way he looks he is depressed, you pump him with test and put him in the gym he begins to feel better about himself and his depression gets better.
Was it the test that made him less depressed or was it that he went to the gym and changed his lifestyle for the better as far as weight?

You take a man who has zero interest in the gym or care about his body and he is depressed and give him test, it will change nothing. He will still be depressed, but now hes depressed and leaner. We see a lot of that here over the years, you have these guys coming here that talk about depression and being lazy and overweight e.t.c. So they self medicate with test because for some reason just the thought of actually going to the gym without drugs scares them. They get some muscle, they lose the weight, they feel better. now they become addicted to test psychologically because they think it was the reason for their changes. Now they are so scared they are going to revert back to the fat loser they were or wont be able to train without it that they insist its a great thing and has so many benefits and made them "Happy." They "blast and cruise" and on a cycle amount of test. Once their bodies become bonded from their permanent cycle now they are finding when they "blast" they have to take more and more of their special happy juice to even grow. Then they get off the blast and now they are cruising on 300 a week up from 250, and up from 125. Because their hormones are so out of fucking whack that now it has caused the very thing they set out to cure.

giardap's picture

You have pretty much just edited the script we have seen here a thousand times before, telling the same tired story in a truthful and accurate way. Add a sprinkle of taboo and a shot or twenty of tren or maybe a dishing of thyroid and we supercharge it up to the mess so many find themselves in.

You hit the nail on the head as usual Mack.

kibby's picture

Definitely helps with depression/anxiety but just from my personal experience getting the hormone balance right and fast as possible is critical if already suffering from depression.

That rollercoaster I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy

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press1's picture

There's nothing quite like a good hit of Test prop to feel great!

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Pale's picture

I think it does help , especially for men over 40 but I also think the initial boost will wear off over time if you aren't working on the underlying issues.

BTW, copy the article and paste it in your post. The site wants us to log in

the_gainz's picture

Fixed

sunamcaxa's picture

I feel happiness while on cycle

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ClaireK's picture

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fusebox's picture

Fuck off shill