+ 4 Studies and the Importance of Relativity
I would like to provide a reminder of how important it is to pay attention to details and keep things in perspective when reviewing studies and abstracts on any topic. Below is a link to an abstract regarding Nandrolone and it's negative effects. It's mice so not the best but I want to point out how crazy these things can get.
The researches gave the mice 30 grams per kilogram of Nandrolone weekly. Now I weigh about 77 kilograms and that would equate to 2,302 grams, yes GRAMS per week of Nandrolone injections. Even if they mistyped it as milligrams that's a ridiculous 2,302mg/week, very overkill. However I don't think it's a misspelling as I've seen it sighted several times, but I may rent the article to confirm since I can't find a way to get it for free at the moment.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30119263
I did find this quote to be interesting though, "The increase in muscle strength and the absence of aggression were the most noticeable traits in longer-term treated groups."
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Great post, brother. I hope it gets men THINKING WITH THE FATTY TISSUE BETWEEN THEIR EARS when they read things and they just assume, "it must be true cuz someone wrote it in an actual study."
I read a study on the plant "comfrey" (very useful for human use as a herbal salve to heal skin wounds, as well as a high protein & vitamin plant for grazing livestock & poultry). The abstract was (paraphrasing, of course), "comfrey is bad."
The study was done on mice, feeding them comfrey for something like 80% of their diet, day in and day out. Over three months, they got sick. Shocker.
In the real world, grazing animals might be lucky if comfrey is 1% of their daily intake for one day a week. It's a great plant to have in your pastures and around your wooded areas, but it's not like a cow getting into a fresh alfalfa field. (For those who aren't cattle people, the short and sweet of it is your cow will die from bloat since the feed/forage is so rich while it's still green.) Of course if a cow eats SOME (say, 5% or less) of it's daily diet with fresh alfalfa, there's no problem!
So I want all of you who eat 3 eggs a day to ask yourselves, what if you ate 40 eggs a day for three months? Do you think you'd be sick by the end of that stretch? (Wait, some of you shouldn't answer that question...)
Great post, Xmad. +1
Interesting
Love it! So true. Abstract surfers should be flayed.
This said, there are oodles of Nand studies on trained bodybuilders! It is, other than test, the best studied drug for us lot!
Hi big bro!
Didn't you something with deca and no/low test?
Hey man, hope your weekend is going well!
yeah I spent last 2 years researching/testing 19nor's and test. wrote 2 parts of a 3 part'er
never finished the 3rd part, but I will as am enjoying the results of the research at the moment!
It is evolving though, has done over the course of things but still is.
in short,
No test = a failure (i.e. no test in your system, regardless of whether it comes from let's say test inj/pellets/gel or let's say a HCG or natural. Nand only shuts off natural which leads to nearly no estro, nearly no prolactin.... I lasted 5 weeks before I almost committed suicide due to low etrogen!!!
19nors dont increase prolactin or estrogen directly (excess test does)
Deca is not a wet compound
Deca in no way whatsoever can be considered as joint therapy
If you take a working TRT level of test with same level+ of nand, eventually your estro creeps up (prolactin follows est slowly) - deca leaves an excess of test that has been beaten to the andro receptor to aromatise)
So the trick is to get the dose right/low enough, I am at 150mg test (75mgx2 per week) with a deca dose, no ai, no da, no serm etc. no estro or prolactin issues...... this said.... when I add GH/igf, I feel my body changing (these things are all connected) - and the small bit of gyno I have on my left pec reacts... until I drop that gh dose.
honestly, its been a really enlightening couple of years and the amount of rabbit'ed bullshido from forums that has been shown to be inaccurate is pretty amazing.
This is more or less why I sent you a FR, just didn’t get around to writing a PM! I’ve recently started on 150mg test 420mg deca (0.3ml test 0.7ml deca x 2 per week) still looking for somewhere to get accurate bloods done with a nandrolone though.
Problem is that whenever we see these 'study's' done on Mice, rats, Donkey's etc they are never training at the same time so they aren't the best indications of strength increases and aggression humans will experience in the gym....
Mice aren't bodybuilders, and like the studies in sedentary men on steroids; this is flawed!
What if we could have mice bodybuilders?
This study is extremely flawed in its radical dosing to cause negative effects. Maybe they started off trying to establish nandrolone LD50? I need to put up one that’s flawed on the positive side.
You make a great point but I’m really wondering what they were trying to accomplish here by giving such an insane dose.
My question is do all these other AAS'S really give that much of a benefit and are they that much better than just Test alone. I've tried Tren and like many I couldn't get past the sides so I had to stop it after a week. I've tried Deca but I couldn't get past the Limp noodle so I stopped it. I've never tried Mast and Primo or DHT any of the other Ones that a lot of guys use. So with me not using them I've never really put any time into researching them. Yes this is probably a stupid or Newb question to some but its an honest question from me. Is the added benefit of them really there or do they really give that much of an added bonus compared to just lets say Test and Dbol.
Don't bust my balls to bad on this one.
The answer in all honesty mate is 'yes' they do each give a big benefit on top of just test alone. It all comes down to which sides of certain compounds you can tolerate or don't bother you (as much). Infact I find you pretty much have to like the sides in order to keep up with using them. If you did a strength log for example when running or adding extra compounds you'd be amazed at the difference some of them make - some of them immediate for example Dbol, Adrol, Sdrol and others create constant build up over time such as Deca & Tren.
Not going to bust your balls for sharing your experience brother man. When it comes to what’s better that could be personal opinion and a experience really. Some people handle certain AAS better than others. Testosterone is one if not the most effective hormone available to us. I love primo but it’s nowhere near as powerful.
I always wondered why there was so many different types. I mean I know each was created in the beginning for some type of medical purpose and later made its over to the enhancement world but like you said I had always heard and thought that Test was the best for body enhancement. I guess your right at the end of the day it just comes down to what each persons body can handle and respond best to.
RustyhookerEach was specifically isolated for different purposes. Just dbol and eq as example. Dbol raises nitrogen retention by a ton but can hold water. Tweak it chemically, boom...you got eq. Pure dry lean gains. Gotta go to the basics and it tells a big story.
Hi rusty
What's your take on t-bol?......d-bol without the bloat or totally different?
jayiskinteresting clip from people in the field that actually now their shit.
https://youtu.be/4wbmR4IcU00?t=173
Yeah it’s a great movie. Have you seen the second one? The Ronnie one is next for me.
jayiskthere is a part 2 to Bigger, Stronger, and Faster? or are you referring to the other two docs Chris Bell made.
2018 A Leaf of Faith . 2015 Prescription Thugs and Trophy Kids
i see Chris Bell as a documentary chronicling the sport of strongman called "Stronger" but I cant find were to view it or if it came out?
I think I’m confusing it with generation iron 2, sorry to send you on a goose chase.
jayiskno prob. There is a part 3 for Generation Iron coming soon. just saw the trailer.
RustyhookerI enjoy reading those studies. Some of them can give inference to human use. Luckily with nandrolone is that there is a lot of human studies as well.
Yes occasionally but over 99% of animal studies never make it to the human stage for a reason so I would advise caution when applying learned knowledge from said studies.
RustyhookerWe are all guinea pigs. Theres doses we use thats 10x higher than clinical studies as a norm. Inferences and not guidelines.
Yeah we’re rolling the dice frequently for sure. Funny thing is I saw one experiment use deca in what would have equated to a dose of 225mg/week based on my body weight and it was pretty effective at building muscle and they were using it for nerve and tendon regeneration.
I base all my decisions off human studies and look at any other kind as novelties. Some people say they have great success using things not fully tested in humans but as I get older and win more at life I’m getting more boring and safer. Kind of thinking about running replacement test and primo for all future cycles after hearing personal accounts about some of the stronger options.
RustyhookerIf i can find some of the old links to dan duchaine, ill post em for you. He posted advised cycles that allegedly were used by the pros. Theyre really light compared to what we see and its amazing how big his followers were for the day. Especially if ya review old interviews or even current where the pros are flat out eating big.