Deca for my back pain??
Hey, what's up guys? I was diagnosed with some bulging and protruding discs in my back, and an injury to the cervical of my neck, about 7 or 8 years ago. For those of you who are familiar with back injuries, my bulging discs are located at L4 and L5. I have to say that I do consider myself pretty lucky, as I can still workout and I don't normally have bad pain. Also, I don't take any roxycodone or anything for the pain either, like half the world seems to be taking nowadays. It's weird, but the times that I do have pain are when I'm sitting or immobile for too long. When I'm active and doing things, I don't get much pain at all.
I can pretty much work out normally, but there are some back exercises that do bother me if I go too heavy, such as upright rows and deadlifts. Especially when doing upright rows, I'll get pain right in the area where my lower traps meet my spine, which I guess is where L4 and L5 are on my spine. Just to be safe, I use moderate weight for those exercises. But, it seems as long as I have support from a bench, I can workout normally and heavy.
I've heard and read about Nandrolone Decanoate being prescribed in the past for things like osteoporosis, back and neck pain, joint pain and collagen synthesis in joints, improving bone thickness and density, among others. And the best thing about Deca's benefits, is that they are said to be achieved with just a small dose of 50mg of Deca every 3 weeks.
Now, I have used deca before, but never by itself, and never in such a small dose as 50mg every 3 weeks. When I was using deca, I did get some relief to my back and neck problems while working out, and just in general, but I'm not sure if that was just from water retention from the deca, or the other compounds I was taking at the time. Or could water retention helping to lubricate the joints, be the factor that accounts for alleviating the pain and helping with back, neck, and other spine problems? But then again, that wouldn't account for deca apparently increasing bone density, or collagen synthesis in joints either.
I wanted to get some honest opinions and thoughts, about using a small amount of Deca for my back and neck problems, especially if there's anyone who has similiar back or neck issues and continues to workout and use gear. Also, do you think that just 50mg of Deca every 3 weeks would interfere with certain cycles? For instance, I'm planning on running a 16 week high dose primo cycle soon, and I'm wondering if even adding a small amount of Deca would interfere with obtaining that true lean primo physique, that the compound is known for. Thanks guys!
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BuvshaiaHi, buddy. I also go in for sports and understand you. I lift heavy weights and sometimes I have a backache. I don't have problems like yours but it's annoying, when you can't train as always. That's why my friend gave me a herbal tea with kratom leaves, about which I read from the article "List of the best kratom vendors". I've felt immediately the effect of tea and pain in my back was less each day. Frankly speaking, if I were you, I would solve the problem by surgical intervention but not by Deca, and only after this I would take this tea to reduce the pain. By the way, I've felt, that my mood has improved due to these tea ;)
Hi Dave
I spoke to a high ranking member on here years ago about this very subject......50mg deca every other week.he said it did him good for aches and pains ect. But for your situation I think your wasting your time.
If your interested in collagen synthesis you can use a good high quality collagen broth can be used or even just the one you add to juice or water.
(They definitely work mate)
Sadly I doubt that using Decca will have much affect on those areas. Best to do stretching and if you can an inversion table might help along with low back extensions for the L-4 L-5.
Dave_61You've never heard or read about deca having benefits for different types of back problems? Because I've found many articles when searching this topic, stating that it can have the various benefits I mentioned above. And this is something that I've heard over the years. I'm not saying these benefits are true, but I definitely seen many when researching this topic.
Not when discs are out of place. Have you tried Chiropractic?
Dave_61No, I haven't tried any kind of treatments or therapy yet. They basically do different types of exercises, and stretches at the chiropractor, right? Anyway, that is something I want to look into.
The Chiropractor actually moves the discs back into place with adjustments and it brings relief! Some are very good and others not so you have to find one you like.
decca may help tendons and ligaments in tieback but for disc issues you need a Chiropractor!
Dave_61It sounds like it could really help me and I'm going to check it out. Thanks bro!
I used to go to Chiropractors for years - they manipulate your spine, neck, hips and so forth...you hear a 'crack' or feel something and that is supposed to be them realigning your spine or whatever. For me, Chiropractors are the modern version of Snake Oil sellers. They sell and idea - they don't practice a medically recognised profession. Give them a go by all means - maybe a lighter wallet will ease your back pain.
https://www.painscience.com/articles/does-chiropractic-work.php
You take test on a normal basis? You trt, or a low dose test user?
Dave_61Yeah, I'm on official trt from an endocrinologist. So, I'll take trt amount when not using gear.
Nah, forget about deca or any other steroid to help with that issue my man....I’ve delt with lower lumbar issues for over 20 yrs ... l3-4 , l4-5,l5-s1.....and currently l2-3..... getting epidural in 2wks cuz another surgery ain’t happening!....heat, ibuprofen, stretching/some yoga makes it tolerable but for me the only thing that ACTUALLY relieves the pain is the spine injections......do all you can to stay off the narcotics and or surgery, but if you’re already at that point do what ya gotta do , but for sure steroids aren’t the answer....now I’m sure there are studies on growth hormones and their healing properties, you might give it looksie.....I haven’t found anything on it that would sway me towards using it, so I’ll stick with stretching, lighter weights, and the occasional ladacaine/cortisone block
Good luck to you sir stay safe
Dave_61Yeah, I must be really lucky to not have totally debilitating pain like I hear so many of you guys with back injuries have. I feel for you bro!
When I first discovered these injuries, my doctor who was a little loose with the old prescription pad, immediately wanted to give me oxycodone's, which there was no way I was going to get addicted to and end up a heroin addict. Especially since I have an addictive personality, I just can't risk ruining my life by taking any opiates. I had some troubles when I was a kid, so I really can't risk it. But, to each his own, and if you really need them, I can understand.
Mate - Naproxen is an NSAID -which was designed for lower back pain. i would recommend that you try it. It's not addictive, not an opiate. I have found it to be very effective - but like I said in a previous post, it does interact with my heart meds. So maybe consider it as an option after talking to your doc. It's not a cure, it's just an effective pain reliever.
Dave_61Yeah, I think that's what's in Aleve, right? I've also used ibuprofen on occasion. There's also another popular medication called paracetamol, that's non-addictive and used for back pain that I was reading about. I was also reading that a commonly prescribed non-addictive medication for disc problems and such, is gabapentin. I'm going to see if I can get a script for gabapentin when I see my doctor. Have you heard of gabapentin being used for back pain? Thanks for your help bro.
I was on gabapentin in the past but to my understanding it’s more for nerve problems than the pain you’re describing. If it’s a radiating, hot/cold, pond/needles, or electric shock like pain then it may help. I personally didn’t notice much difference on it but when I came off of it man the nerve pain came back with a vengeance
Personally, paracetamol is useless and also bad for your liver if you drink alcohol.
Dave_61Oh, is it. I came across that medication while doing some research on the internet about non-addictive meds that I could possibly take. I don't really know anything about the medication, but if it fucks with your liver, than I'm gonna stay far away!
Since I already use juice, I try and totally stay away from anything that may possibly cause liver damage. I never even drink a beer or any alcohol, even on New Year's Eve or the 4th of July or any time. I figure I already take something that may possibly harm my liver, that I certainly don't need to take anything else to also harm my liver!
I was speaking from a personal point of view regarding pain relief - for me it has no effect. Also, I believe that it is only hepatoxic combined with alcohol - otherwise it should be fine. Ibuprofen is an Aspirin derivative and many people get pain relief from it - but bear in mind, ALL NSAIDs (including Aspirin) can affect you gut and cause ulcers with long term/high dosage use. Celebrex/Coxto (Celecoxib) is in a different class of drugs and they are touted to be effective. I have tried Celecoxib and can't say that it was effective - but different courses for different horses - meaning that it might work for you. While using juice, you must take Tudca (proven to be more effective than Udca), NAC and Silymarin.
Dave_61Yeah, I've read about NSAID pain relievers possibly causing stomach bleeding in certain situations. I was recently looking into TUDCA for liver health. Other supplements I currently take for liver health are, NAC, Milk Thistle(Silymarin), Alpha Lipoic Acid, Soya Lecithin, and Curcumin.
I also take some other supplements for general health and other benefits. I've been trying to only take the most important ones because I've been taking probably more than I should. But, I'm gonna look into TUDCA because I've heard good things about it!
I also use a conditioner that has Saw Palmetto, niacin, caffeine, and other ingredients in it that are supposed to prevent hair loss. To me, it's worth using, and it really seems to be working. Do you take a lot of supplements or the important ones?
I read some research that TUDCA is also for for gut health. I'm not sure that topical treatments for hair loss actually work except for Minoxidil - and even then they only work while you use it. Same goes with taking Finasteride.
I take a men's multi, Saw Palmetto, Milk Thistle, NAC, Pygeum, Aminos and Zinc. Waiting on my TUDCA order. The Saw and Pygeum are for BPH - but since stopping gear my symptoms have really settled down.
Dave_61Yeah, TUDCA is a supplement that I have to look into adding to my regimen. I can't say for sure whether or not the hair conditioner I use that contains Saw Palmetto, Niacin, caffeine, and whatnot actually works, but I figure it can only possibly help, so I've been using it.
I also take those same vitamins and supplements that you do, and some other ones as well. Did you know that the Saw Palmetto and Pygeum Extract, besides being good for BPH and other prostate issues, is actually a natural anti-DHT and 5-a reductase inhibitor (similiar to Finasteride but natural), that helps you to also keep your hair? I take zinc as well, in the form of zinc picolinate, but I have a brand new bottle of zinc gluconate that I'm going to use next since I read that it's supposed to be better absorbed by your body. What kind of zinc do you take?
As you can probably tell, I'm really a big fan of vitamins and health supplements. I actually worked in the Vitamin Shoppe for a number of years when I was younger. When you mentioned aminos, you're referring to BCAA's right?
I would like to discuss the vitamins and supplements that I take further and see what you think, so is it cool if I send you a fr request?
No probs - send an FR
I broke my l4 and c2 I made a true commitment to researching how to properly rehab. Then I learned maintinemce and strength exercises to support my injuries. That with proper warm ups and cooldowns with daily mantanece will get you real pain relief PM me if you like bro
Dave_61Cool, thanks bro.
Stan efferding made a video titled “I broke my back” with some good info and a couple books to check out that may help
https://youtu.be/zF2EO9UGOS4
Dave_61I'll check it out. Thks.
Really intelligent stuff right there. +2 for sharing
Dave_61Thanks for your thoughts guys!
Nope, nope, nope.
Deca beats test to the andro receptor. The excess test is converted into estrogen, estrogen causes water retention, and water retention masks an existing issue without helping it whatsoever. In fact, masking issues this way allows you to keep doing damage and therefore makes the issue worse. Further, riding your water that high will induce higher blood pressure leading to other issues. Riding your estrogen that high will lead to a need for an aromatase inhibitor to combat gyno sides etc.... but then you might say well damnit I will use nolvadex instead and live with high BP... nope, that will just impact your igf limiting real muscle gains on cycle. Meanwhile the higher BP might be killing you and the exercise might be doing a number on those already damaged discs, but you wil be so strong and powerful on cycle that you will do what... lift heavier?!
And so on......
Deca is not joint or back medicine. People who say it is, just dont understand how these things work.
Dave_61I've read a lot about deca being prescribed by doctors in the past, for various back and bone ailments. From what I've read, there's definitely truth to deca been prescribed in the past for back and bone related ailments. There are many records of it. Have you ever read about this? Because, I would think there would have to be some truth behind the many stories, doctor's prescriptions, and other related information that I've read so much about on so many sites.
I understand what you're saying about water retention, estrogen buildup, high blood pressure, and the other side effects you talked about, but maybe at the therapeutic dosage of 50mg every 3 weeks that I read about, you could possibly avoid these side effects to a large degree.
I'm not questioning your knowledge about the subject, but with so much information out there about these healing benefits of deca, there has to be something to it I would think. I'm just questioning whether or not there is any truth to them. Thanks bro for your information!
No, there is no truth to it, other than small uses for osteoporosis because it can increase bone mineral density and prevent osteo related fractures at a basic level but not completely. It was used primarily for cachexia, muscle wasting and anaemia. Check the FDA info if you would like to learn the truth. In fact, go to real sources and not forums for your information in general to truly gain knowledge. I posted a forum on how to research, it has links for how to get the answers and truth fro legit medical and informational sources.
There is no therapeutic dosage for what you describe. If you actually understood what I posted, you would understand why not. You do not have osteoporosis and are not trying to build up bone mineral density to avoid fractures related to that disease.
There are none. Try running multiple grams of it on its own and see where it gets you. (hint... dont do this, because it doesnt work, I have tested it).
Click my avatar and check the research forum I posted a good while back. but you can also read my other 2 deca posts. Im due to write a third.
It is up to you as to what you actually believe, but you cannot ignore facts, so honestly buddy, I recommend you go gettem, because what you are proposing will damage your health in the long term.
Best wishes man, whatever you do.
Dave_61Btw, it seems like you may have taken some of the things I said the wrong way, because some of your comments seem a bit argumentative. Just so you know, I wasn't trying to disrespect you in any way, or say you don't know what you're talking about, or anything. I was only discussing or debating a topic with you, so keep in mind that I meant no disrespect, and really did appreciate all the information you offered. If I'm wrong and you didn't take it the wrong way, than that's my bad bro.
No not at all, honestly, not at all. You are a grown man and will ultimately make your own decisions and I certainly dont take offence at anything like that.
Let me put it this way. I have spent a bunch of years doing it wrong/thinking as you do about this and other things, ultimately leading to injuries and all sorts of other nonsense... but then an additional 5 years realising something was seriously wrong and actually gone out to find the truth but also carried out the experiments in as controlled way as possible to back up the literature - given what we do often steps outside the books when at supraphysiological doses. So I simply tell anyone who will listen and always encourage people to not take bro advice (even mine) but do their own research from legit sources.
You'd be so surprised at the things you find out... one of my favorites was reading the lit on tamoxifen, finding out that there was no clinical benefit to taking more than 20mg pd... so all the internet forums and guides showing frontloads are actually just unnecessarily overdosing and driving igf into the ground for no reason.
Even crazier are people's reactions when you challenge what they believe to be true with real evidence! Thats when you see people taking offence!!!
Not me though, it's all good fella!
Dave_61Oh alright, cool! And as a matter of fact, I've actually heard similiar things about effective doses of Nolvadex. Like when some people recommend using 60mg/day of Nolvadex for the first week or two of PCT, I always just SMH! Depending on where you're reading, some sites recommend nothing above 40mg/day, which is a dose I surely wouldn't go above. I wasn't aware that 20mg/day is the maximum effective dose, but I certainly believe you, and that's very good information to know.
Alright, thanks a lot for all your helpful information and I really appreciate it bro! It's good to hear someone who offers real knowledge, and not just bro science.
"Even crazier are people's reactions when you challenge what they believe to be true with real evidence! Thats when you see people taking offence!!!"
So true. People often take being corrected as a personal affront. To them it's like you are insulting them or slapping their face. It's kind of like when you point out someone has snot on their cheek, or food on their face - they get all embarrassed and hurt and take it out on the person who has pointed it out - rather than appreciating that they have been done a favour, because they won't be walking around continuing to look stupid.
Takes a real man to point out snot on another man's face Oz LOL
;-)
I couldn't agree more with you. The academics are the worst for it if you ask me. You're highly educated and very intelligent, so I know you will have seen it too. And, not to get political about it, but when a centre-thinking individual talks sense to either a right-winger or a lefty.... pass the popcorn!!!
Thanks for the kind words. Yes academics are pretty bad - it's because they have confidence in their intellect, consider that they have done all the appropriate research and readings, and think that they have a thorough knowledge of the topic. They also believe that their position on the matter is neutral and unbiased - therefore irrefutable. Then they meet another academic who believes all of the above but has a different perspective.
Although, it's not only academics - most so-called experts have the same attitude. Just look at all the economic 'advisers' and the diverse opinions on Brexit for example.
Absolutely. The same economists will put their hands up in the air and say; "we aren't very good at predicting the future", after things go wrong. They would be right of course! Brexit is an insanity. There is a massive cost to it everyday, and there are quite literally years being lost as time ticks by over what was ultimately an immigration issue. Crazy stuff.
Dave_61I totally did understand what you posted, and I certainly know how to go about doing my research, and I always conduct the majority of my research on government or other official sources, clinical trials and whatnot. I agree that in most circumstances, forums are the last place to go to get actual facts. However, I do believe that it was certainly necessary to also get some real world experience and suggestions from fellow Eroids members who have a wealth of experience when it comes to using deca and it's effects!
Anyway, I'm getting off track, and the most important thing is that I'm not going to be using deca to alleviate or heal my back or neck problems in anyway.
^^^ +1 on this. I love the Test and Deca combo. Great strength gains and all my joints seemed to feel better. I used to even run small amounts as a 'therapeutic agent' in other cycles. I thought that it was the duck's nuts. All it really did was give me the moon face, raise my BP, and mask the pain. I have a prolapsed disc and suffer sciatica - the Deca made it feel better - or did it? It certainly allowed me to train harder, but now that I don't use it anymore - I am struggling to get out of bed sometimes due to severe back pain. As Giardap says - "the exercise might be doing a number on those already damaged discs, but you will be so strong and powerful on cycle that you will do what... lift heavier." That's what I did. I often have to use Naproxen, which I have found to be the best lower back pain reliever - however, it interacts with my heart meds - so I can only take it in extreme pain scenarios. Apparently there are some laser ops that can fix a lot of disc issues - I'm looking into that...maybe you should also.
Dave_61Yeah, sust and deca is a favorite combo of mine. I think they compliment each other very nicely! And I have seen commercials for laser spine treatment. But, there's still a lot of risk involved, or at least I believe there is, and my situation is not totally debilitating, so I don't know if the risk is worth it for me. For those with extreme debilitating pain, then I can totally see it being worth the risk.
Have you looked into the laser spine treatment at all yet? Do you know if there is a lot of risk involved with it? I seen on the commercial where they said they only make a small one inch incision to work on your spine. I wanted to look into that when I first seen it on t.v., but I never have. I'm thinking that maybe I should take a look into exactly what it involves, and what risks there are. If there's a risk of never walking again, or something like that, then I don't think I would risk it.
Anyway, I hope everything works out for you, and thanks for your response!
Will do more research and get back (no pun intended) to you.
Damn you burned up your fingers pads typing that, huh...lol
good advice G... 24/7 365...
Sorry LOL!!!!
Yeah - he's always right, it's kind of annoying ;-)
Yep - I think Giar actually has a Phd in Biology & gear lol...
Sorry lads,
Im just a bollox with nothing better to do than read endo stuff
It's actually quite sad really lol
Hey man - Its great to have someone giving advice who really knows what they are talking about rather than what a 'friend' told them lol...
It's true. Very knowledge fellow. (hey - Giar, if you are reading this...where's that Bushmills you promised me?)