Confusing blood work, what to do next.
Going to preface this post by saying that I am aware that some variables changed but I am still confused as to how each one may have attributed to this result, and some clarification as to why each variable change made the result the way it did would help a bunch.
So anyways well jump into the blood work.
6 months ago I was on TRT from a clinic doing the following protocol, 160mg test c + 1000ui of HCG every 3.5 days.
Blood work taken injection day morning before injection(3.5 day trough)
1076 ng/dL Total Test
48.6 pg/mL e2
23.6 ng/dL free T
Doctor said my blood count levels were very good and that I could up my dosage to 180mg/week and see how my bloods came back after a while. So I was on 180mg/week for 4-5 months.
The following things changed since then
-dropped HCG 5-6 weeks prior to blood work
-swapped over to the UGL test C about 3-4 weeks prior to the new blood work.
-changed injection frequency from twice weekly to EOD
On the new UGL test I’ve been following this protocol
175mg/week split into EOD injections
Blood work was taken injection day mid day, before injection (2 day trough)
1076 ng/dL Total Test
84 pg/mL e2
19.0 ng/dL free T
I’m very confused about how my Total T, on a higher test dosage, would be the same, and that my free T would be lower, yet my E2 would be so much higher?
Does HCG increase testosterone that much to make that much of a difference? And if testosterone did decrease because I dropped HCG, why did the E2 almost double? Why would I aromatize that much more after dropping HCG and increasing inj frequency, when both of those are normally suggested to lower the amount of aromatizing that is happening.
I just need a little help wrapping my mind around how these changes created this result. And what I should do now. Thanks.
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AnonKind of 'all over the road' on understanding here. Waiting for it to settle.
So kind of an update, I realize there have been too many variables changing to really give me a good idea of my base levels. And each blood work was done only 2-3 weeks after changing something. So I am going to ride out another 4-6 weeks on 175mg only, split eod, and get blood work restested at that point to kind of get a baseline and go from there.
RustyhookerEod is overkill but enjoy....
Makes alot of sense to me. +1
Are you accounting for the dead space in the needles with the more frequent injections? Are you adding an extra .1 ml each time for what will be left in the needle? HCG can increase test a little if your nuts still function and dropping it reducing it. Those are possibilities concerning the total test. And yes, crashing E2 and dropping AI can still be affecting your E2 at a dose of test not all that high that little of a while along regarding what you stated below. Then much later on it would be higher and more of your test would convert more quickly also possibly reducing your test a little further. A lot of variables changed that were not controlled for not including the possibility of the dead space.
The syringe and needle "dead space" are accounted for by the lines on the syringe. There is no dead space. That "extra" oil is not extra. If you fill a syringe to the 1ml, 2ml, or whatever and remove the needle, what do you see? Exactly the amount of oil you pulled up. The needle has oil in it so you are not injecting a huge bubble of air.
So there is no additional space? If I draw to the 1 ml line, when I inject I get 1 ml into my body? I was mistaken then. I know they have syringes that push everything out. Like they recommended for the Pfizer vaccine so they can get 6 inoculations per vial.
Yes, 1ml on the syringe is exactly what you inject. In a situation where they talk about the vaccine or other types like it they use the z-method so they dont waste a drop. In our case test is plentiful per say so losing a little means nothing. For example look at a diabetics needle, there is almost no dead space because the needle and syringe are one unit and not removable.
I thought the z method was more about the injection site not leaking out the oil. Also, this has been discussed here before, concerning pulling in a tiny bit of air to compensate for the dead space. Hence, the air pushes the oil out. Keep in mind the possibility of embolism, which is minor concerning the tiny amount air in an inter muscle injection.
I can't remember the actual name of the process where they make sure all medicine is used and nothing wasted. It's similar to the z
Thank you for clearing that up for me. So the only reason people use the ones with no dead space is to get extra product. Like I have a trt script so if I used one of those at the 1 ml Mark I would get more than
The 200 mg per injection. Also it seems like my pharmacy vials are over dosed by at least a tenth. I can get to 1.1 on the barrel. I always figured that was for what I thought was the dead space. Is that just because most trt patients have trouble getting every drop out of the vial?
Ok, the ones with no dead space are still getting the same amount of medicine as the ones with the space in the relaceable needle. The ONLY difference is one you can remove (needle tip.) .5 ml marker on the syringe means you are injecting .5ml. even with what you see in the needle barell, that part is accounted for as zero. Don't over complicate it.
I'm not trying too. I guess it was a multi part question. If I remember right you are also on trt. Does it seem to you like your 1 ml vial if that's what you receive, has more than 1 ml in it?
I never really paid attention but the next one I will be lol.
I angle it and try to suck every last drop out and I get more than it indicates. But it might be they put extra in because it’s a little difficult to get it all extracted for some people I’m guessing.
Yeah I would assume they would rather give someone a little extra, than give someone a little less so they just err on the side of a little extra.
I think when using a luer lock syringe, if you’re injecting frequently, and say you are doing .5ML/week, and you draw directly to the .5, and then inject, yes you are still getting .5ML injected, but you are leaving some oil remaining in the syringe. This isn’t really a big problem, but if you’re doing ED or EOD injections this can lead to wasting a whole .3-4ml per week.
When I first injected I was using 23g 1” needle, as they had about a .1ml dead space, so everytime I was injecting .1ml was also staying in the needle, I was getting the proper dose, but I was losing oils over time. A way around this is once you know how much dead space your particular syringe has, you can pull to the total including the dead space amount, in the example above with a .1ml dead space, if I wanted to inject .5ML I would draw to .4ml, then I would draw some air into the syringe typically just to double check I got exactly .5ML total oil, and then remove excess air and leave around .1-2ml in the syringe, and inject in a way that the air floats to the side of the plunger, and so that air will essentially push out all the oil. That’s what I did for a long time before I swapped to insulin pins for convenience.
Yes that whole air thing kind of scares me. I’ve probably watched too many movies. I sometimes get air in my HGH injection and don’t realize it, like yesterday but it’s never been a problem at least subq
I don’t think it’s an issue, you’re not injecting it into the blood stream, but even if you do like .5ML of air it’s fine, it just makes a little air sound as the air comes out. No issues for me at all.
Rustyhooker^^^^^it takes a lit of air into big vein to cause issue. Theres med charts shoeing how much into what vein. But yes, sub q or im with tiny bubble....nada
Yeah the total T makes sense after dropping the HCG, and I swapped from 23g to slin pins so haven’t been accounting for dead space in the slins since it’s so little.
And yeah that makes sense, I’m going to leave everything just about the same for 6-8 more week and get blood work again so I can get a control baseline
I think the bottom line is, your basically running too high of a test dose for no ai use. Personally, I'm of the belief that an ai shouldnt be needed for a trt dose. Typically when you run more frequent pinning you armotise less and you typically can get by with a smaller test dose per week. I think you could dial back your dose to control your e2. Just my 2 cents. Your free numbers are relatively close to each other.
RustyhookerFree test lower so longer time for conversion to occur. Your count test is at top end. Shouldnt need adex except when going above a normal where bodys conversions rise due to amt injected. Id go towards 800 myself and have no issues.
Oct 7th - big E2 crash, felt like shit for a few days or even the entire week, dropped AI cold turkey
Oct 28th - 160mg blood work shown in OP
Nov 4th - upped dosage to 180mg/week
Is it possible that my e2 on the blood work done on oct 28th was still effected by crashing around the 7th? And that not long after the blood work my e2 continued to rise, since I had no longer been taking an AI?
I went back and looked at pictures and on the day I got the blood work done at 160mg I had no back or shoulder acne, and then I upped the dosage to 180mg and then started having acne come in. Unfortunately I never got blood work done at 180mg/week, but could it have been related to high e2? Should I stick to the current 175mg/week for another month or two, and see how things look or should I start taking like .25mg arimadex each week and then get blood work after 8 weeks of that?
I'm drinking right now, I needs some time to think on this one.
Molinin302Eerily strange you nailed exact same numbers. Many clinics use compounding pharmacies and have an AI like anastrozole added to the testosterone. Are you sure yours didn't have an AI?
AnonNo shit? Built in?
No more. Hcg can't be produced in compounding pharmacies in US.
Molinin302Anastrazole, not HCG. The clinics that were prescribing HCG changed to gonadorelin.
AnonI missed something. Will double back
Yeah I thought so aswell lol, very strange totally different labs too, and I’m almost 100% my test did not have an AI in it because they had prescribed me anastrozole aside the TRT, but I tanked me e2 at one point when they upped me from .25mg to .5mg, and I haven’t touched an AI since. I do have a bunch on hand left over and that I ordered because I want to start a cycle soon.