+ 2 Test deca eq tbol
Stats: 5'9 202, 13-14%, 27
Goals: Increase of 10-20 lbs without a significant rise in bf%
Hey I've been on this forum for a while and figured I might start to contribute a bit. Gonna start posting up gear pics and everything too. Anyway this is going to be my fifth cycle. Bit of a learning curve with the past ones on what works best for me. Got bloods before I ever did a cycle and had low test (404) massive shbg (1.5 times upper end of the range) free test therefore scraping the bottom end of the range, and estrogen at 173 with ref range 40-115. This along with cycle experimenting have told me I do not respond to test well at all.
Cycle history:
1. test e 500mg a week 12 weeks. Tbol at 50 for first 6. Cycle was a side effect ridden mess with bloat, acne, hair loss, itchy nips, overall terrible. Put on 20 pounds but half was water and didn't have the natty test levels to support it. Lost almost everything before the next cycle regardless of proper pct with everything money could buy to help. Hcg throughout cycle, DAA, animal stak, Clomid, torem, aromasin. Bloodwork after confirmed test levels were at 463 with a lower shbg but still felt like crap. Gains just fell off me and I packed on fat trying to outeat the losses.
2. test prop 500mg a week for 10 weeks. Tbol at 50 for first 6. Gave the classic another shot but also side effects everywhere. Essentially a repeat of the first.
3. test at 250mg and deca at 600mg with tbol at 60mg for first 6 and npp kicker. Best cycle I've had yet. Threw on 30 pounds of mass and my strength absolutely skyrocketed. Loved this cycle. No acne, no hair loss, no gyno, massive gains, no dreaded deca dick at all with caber at .25 twice a week. Gave up the pct route here after an endo said I would be a good candidate for trt with my bloods and symptoms. Lost none of the gains and felt fantastic. Got a little fat though.
4.prop 300mg a week 10 weeks and tren 25mg a day for first 6 and 50mg var for last 6. Great results with minimal sides on this one. Cut to hell for the first time in my life and stronger than I thought I could be.
Kept weight the same and slowly transitioned more of it to muscle and less to fat in between cycles.
Which brings us to this cycle. I also wanted to tell those that get massive sides from test that there are far better cycles for them.
Plan is to blow up from the deca and have it drop out at week 14 and run the EQ and tbol while it's fully kicked in to harden up a bit and recomp.
My main question is about the eq as I haven't run it yet. Wanted opinions on dosage and cycle length from those who have run it. Will donate double red blood as I do have hematocrit that sits around 46-51 if I don't donate.
| Week | Sustanon | Deca | EQ | Tbol |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 200mg | 1200mg | 600mg | |
| 2 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 3 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 4 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 5 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 6 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 7 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 8 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 9 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 10 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 11 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 12 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 13 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 14 | 200mg | 600mg | 600mg | |
| 15 | 200mg | 0mg | 600mg | 50mgED |
| 16 | 200mg | 0mg | 600mg | 50mgED |
| 17 | 200mg | 0mg | 600mg | 50mgED |
| 18 | 200mg | 0mg | 600mg | 50mgED |
| 19 | 200mg | 0mg | 600mg | 50mgED |
| 20 | 200mg | 0mg | 600mg | 50mgED |
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Why was this even posted? If the you have run it before what are you asking for? I don't get it ...you know your going to do what your going to do reguardless.... So what are you really looking for? No offense but this section is to learn from vets how to build cycles whether your first or last ... It seems alot of conflict going on for nothing. I guess in future maybe post cycles you really want advice on that youll take .. I dont care what other guys tell you i feel test is best and if you run all this shit 200mg of sust aint enough
Man this thread is dead let it die lol...
I posted it up as a kind of hello and introduction to the community about me since I'd never posted anything before, informative purposes (on many other forums people are starting to keep test to a minimum to limit sides and let other anabolics do most of the gruntwork), and to get feedback on eq dosage and duration since it was a new compound for me.
If test is best for you then that's excellent! Keep running what you like best as everyone is different and I'll encourage you and congratulate you on the gains you make. I'm so far beyond done fighting about this that I would prefer to let this whole thing rest if you don't mind. Take a look at catalyst's driving people away thread as it sums up my thoughts perfectly on the matter
Have you ran gear any other way then this? If not then how do know whats going to work best ? I wasnt stating test is best or not to run eq or deca it is your ratio thats all . deca more than test usually= impotence and my main point was not driving you away it was ask why post something and then not take advice. Theres plenty info on eq and dosage on here and elsewhere this section is to get help designing a cycle i dont believe in cookie cutter stacks i do believe in peoples experience with drugs And getting solid advice thats all
Yes I have... Everything is in the description. And also now in the comments too. Full cycle history bloodwork to back up my personal theories etc. Appears Im a bit different in my body chemistry than most. Side effects non existent right now except my hematocrit came back slightly high at 48.7 and yes I did my own research that's why I laid out this cycle as I did. Wanted to double check everything before I jumped in with people with real experience as there's a lot of parroted shit info out there from people who have no idea what they're talking about.
I also didn't entirely know this place was solely for advice as it said "cycle logs" which looked to me at the time like a place where you say what cycle you're running lol. Like I said I wasn't active at all before and just used this place for the sources and general info.
Thats cool bro i was same i didnt realize this place was more than just a place to sources tell last summer its a great community with great members. Yes i dont understand that part either i think as to why there is not a specific place for cycle advice and a place to just state what you running with results you have got... so sorry for the misunderstanding and welcome to the community:)
All good man appreciate it! There are some good guys here and I'm liking it so far
.....
Nobody better be flagging anything in here
I know I'm a day late and a dollar short to this thread but the community is having a discussion in the general forum about showing a greater accommodation to members that want to run something other than plain vanilla cycles with "standard" dosing.
There is nothing in your proposal that raises any real red flag for me in consideration of your cycle history and your personal experience and the time you took to discuss everything in detail.
As far as EQ is concerned, you are running a middle of the road dose of the compound and with correct diet and training it should produce slow and steady gains in mass that are maintainable (that's one of EQ's best features) and you should see some decent increases in vascularity from the compound in the outer weeks of the run.
If you have run deca with low test and have not been plagued by ED, then great. It is a common side but not one that everyone gets. You are controlling both estrogen and prolactin so there you have it. I love deca but I do experience bloat from it as well as pitting edema on a long run.
Don't neglect mid cycle bloods, expect a hit on your lipid profile, mild elevation in liver enzymes, watch your RBC as you know. You can certainly finish with tbol. Many would use var - it's not gonna make or break anything either way. If you wanted to close out with Winny I wouldn't throw a fit either.
Don't feel attacked bro. This is a tight community that has grown accustomed to specific ways of running certain stacks and it may appear close minded but everyone in this thread has your best interests at heart.
BTW, your testosterone sensitivity is uncommon in my experience anyways.
I will just throw this out there for you to think about - some folk have bad reactions to certain esters. We always assume the compound is the issue but that may not be the case.
Enjoy your cycle bro.
so this guy is 26 going onto his 5th cycle, no red flags? how about trt? the site is what it is, try change what you like, there will still be soldiers like me who will stick with the same protocol, if you dont like it, find another site, pretty simple.
at his age 26, with that many cycles he must be a beast, why would he need four compounds to grow? considering he is on trt when his endo etc has only just finished maturing, hmmm, he must of fuked up bad to be on trt hey, no way should tis guy be given the nod, i should flag your post, silly.
cool your jets! The soldier talk is what led you down the path of destruction last time
Man I thought this thread was dead and by the way the cycle is already started... Ok so first off I'm recently 27 now. 2 of my cycles were all short esters therefore with low time off and the last two there was no pct to worry about. Which is why I'm on my fifth cycle in the span of two years. Not horribly shocking.
Second have you not started to see my posts around? I think it's pretty clear I've at least done some research and I'm not a total moron. There's always more to learn but I have put in some time. I've explained my reasons for trt and essentially it came down to be my personal choice and I'm happy I made it in the end. I tried pct, I recovered and got bloods to prove it, and I still had the same problems as before. Depression, low sex drive, you name a side of low test and chances are I had it. I had to really prove my knowledge to fight my doctor for trt at my age and I really don't feel like fighting you to prove it too.
And you say four compounds like all compounds are equal in strength. 200mg of test is hardly even worth mentioning since its for normal function for me. Everyone will say eq is mild and 600mg is fairly standard for some slow gains on a long cycle. Tbol is one of the mildest orals next to maybe anavar and I'm running a low dose of 50mg a day for 6 weeks... The only truly strong compound in the stack is the deca which I already know I respond very well to with no sides. I don't like running high doses or harsh compounds since I've got the rest of my life to grow and I don't want to be dealing with bad sides for weeks on end. I also got bloods pulled yesterday to check on everything.
For real just give this a rest and keep more of an open mind. You don't have to agree with it but there's more than one way to do things. Everyone's body chemistry is unique and we all respond very differently. That's why one of the main pieces of advice given to young guys when they start training is listen to your body. Well I know what cycle I feel best on and how my body responds. Unless it crosses into the border into what is unsafe, then I don't see a problem with trying different things in the hope of finding a better way.
From Cat: (below)
Cat agrees with me. I don't think either he or I are off base. There are so many more ways of doing things than the protocols many folks are used to. I would think you would want the community to see more things. You have always seemed like a guy who wants the knowledge and experience of the community to expand.
Being a "soldier" bro sticking with the "same protocol" sure isn't going to allow that to happen.
Go tell cat to find another website too, bro. See how that goes.
does not excuse his stats and history, hes a 26 yo on trt, blatant abuse, yes im all for "expansion" being more "liberal" but i will not co sign ludacris bs like this.
let me ask you this, and i remember the first day you joined, are you telling me that the last 2 or so years you have been here is all based on lies? you have just followed suit and followed the flow?
it would mean your tag and points are fraudulent, it means all the "passion" you supposedly have for the site is a sham, this isnt personal by the way, but how can you for the last couple of years be that way, then all of a sudden boooom?//?
you are a regular, respected expert member of this community, i have seen you flame and neg people for less than this, all of a sudden this? come on mate, its still gotta be safety first.
Bro, I'm not departing from the need for safety in steroid use. If I were reckless about it I would be dead by now.
This particular stack isn't dangerous bro. Not at all. The OP's use pattern in the past which we assume is the basis for such a young man finding himself in the need for TRT is not the question at hand.
The question at hand is what do I think of this single proposed stack. I don't have a problem with it. If the OP has already damaged his endocrine system what are you proposing? No more juice? That's not going to bring his testicular function back.
first i would get him to try some power/ reboot pcts.
then id lay out a proper diet and tell him look were the abuse got you, dont worry about 4 compounds, get your diet dialed in.
why run 4 if ya can run 2?
lol glad your still safety first mate, everything i have typed on this site i believe in and is true, i dont type it to fit in or gain points lol, you know me, i speak my mind and dont hold back.
if its safety first still im all good.
i will never co sign something i dont think is good or beneficial.
And now you negged me four karma??? Seriously what goes through your head where you think I did something that deserves that
my bad, didnt mean to touch karma, if it was me, you just gained some un earned points, 4 karma? no one can do that except mods. well done.
cant be bothered reading your long boring whinge fest.
ill stay outta here, your body, do as you wish.
good luck.
Rustyhooker...
You said you had Hairloss from your first cycle with the high test. I was just wondering when you ran that that cycle with the tren,did you experience Hairloss or no?
Actually surprisingly when I kept the test low I really didn't get anything that minoxidil and ketoconazole shampoo couldn't handle. Granted I was only running 25mg a day but tren didn't seem as hard on my hair as test. I got a little scalp itchiness in the points of my widows peak but anything I lost grew back immediately once I was off. I think if I had dropped the test to 200 I probably wouldn't have noticed much of anything
RustyhookerGiven that 400 is not trt time, your doctor is bullshit ting you.
High sex binding hormone, post pix...high bf% raises all that and 14% shouldn't be a stretch .
Cycle...I think your grasping for straws with a flawed argument.
1---how do you lower SBH??
2--How do you raise free test?
3---a real endo would be working on sbh and estro.
It wasn't my total test necessarily but a combination of my free test levels and my young age with some other more personal problems.
Pictures of myself will never be posted to a public online forum about steroids since I value my career and record too much. Just a risk I'm not willing to take.
My high estrogen was causing a high shbg according to the doctor and causing negative feedback for my hypothalamus to not release LH to tell my balls to produce test. Proviron was not a possibility for me due to hairloss concerns to fix free test. However aromasin at 25mg a day on 200 test puts my test around 800 and estradiol at 22-27. I have the important parts of my bloodwork saved in the notes section of my phone but not the actual readout. I'm due back for another test very soon so I can post those when I get them.
As for my cycle should I just take this post down entirely? Got the original idea from a vet on another board named jimmyinkedup and it worked well when I tried it out. It's just been an absolute shitshow in here when it was just supposed to be informative.
RustyhookerSo you're working closely with your doctor then?
You were fine with deca high before? Was there a prolactin test done? Just curious. Your stack is damn strong.
My endo is an Indian guy who barely speaks understandable English who I mostly use for bloodwork. Honestly most of what I've discovered I've ended up teaching him about trt and I don't trust him all that much. Without going into too much detail I actually have a fairly rich medical background. I would be glad to discuss everything with you not in the open forum since I'm getting attacked out here. I'll probably take this post down.
I didn't have prolactin checked which was stupid but I took caber at .25 twice a week and no itchy nips or limp dick. I will be getting bloods on this one this time. Test I got itchy nips immediately and had to resort to letro. Mentally I felt much better than higher test. Way more calm and overall just felt good. Made insane gains in size and strength and have 4-5 inch stretch marks across my chest and lats because of it. My gym buddy has also ran this stack after I got such good results but with 350 test and 600 deca and is now a believer in it too.
I just don't see how my stack is less safe than guys using a high dose of test and middling dose of deca or eq. If I switched my deca and test numbers no one would have an issue... Essentially I'm replacing my test/deca or test/eq with an eq/deca combo that works without sides for me. By the way I've seen a lot your posts on here and I respect the hell out of you and your opinion
I've read through your cycle and the posts. I don't think you're getting "attacked", far from it. These guys aren't subtle when they take offence
What you're doing is unusual, and a fairly big percentage of people would find themselves in a spot of bother if they mimic it. If it works for you, I don't have a problem with it. There's an element of "this is how to do it" sometimes, if it doesn't fit "the norm", then it's wrong. It's called a "cookie cutter approach".
You've run it this way before, as long you're being cautious and getting blood work done regularly, Then enjoy the cycle.
I really appreciate that. I know it's certainly unusual, but there wasn't a lot of data on guys running low test high nandrolone out there when I was researching so I wanted to share my experiences with everyone. I've seen a lot of your work on the forums and your opinion matters a lot to me man
Just got to watch none of the more naive viewers of the post look at it and say "I'll give that a whirl" without reading the detail. They gave a habit of doing that unfortunately......
Keep me posted on how it pans out. Just be ready to react should anything get messy. 19 nors have a habit of being unpredictable.
RustyhookerJust trying to get you fully covering bases here. Test your bloods next time just so you know and prove...confident in how you go about the cycle. I ran npp first 8 weeks so I could drop if there was an issue. But for me, I ran the npp lower than the test.
Eq is forgiving on test levels. I've run high or low test and been happy. Best advice while you're researching is double check your foods with the food guys. A big stack is for fast recovery as you know...research well. Be smart
you say you are on trt, yet wont post a pic due to your job, career, whatever. Im on trt myself and posted pictures all the time. My job I can guarantee you is more important then yours and I still posted even my tattoos that are genuinely mine. When you post here without us seeing what we are working with you are wasting our fkn time. For all we know you are 4 foot 9 300 pounds with a club foot looking for a co signer to a terrible idea. Help is never accepted when you dont humble yourself and accept critisicm to any degree. Pay attention if you dont show us your physique, as far as Im concerned you are what I described until I see otherwise.