posted Wed, 06/01/2016 - 21:14
1496
+ 3 Revised cycle plan :)
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STATS, DESCRIPTION, GOALS
5'10"
225 lbs
12% BF
So GearHead pretty much set me straight and gave me some good advice which I will be following. Gonna set the primo aside for a bit and get down to around 8-9% BF with this cycle, and then maintain that for awhile before trying to go any lower. Once I have a plan in place with a lower BF I will run my beloved primo cycle lol.
I had a whole big thing typed out that I had to erase to update this log, so I really don't feel like typing all of it again, if anyone wants to follow or has any questions feel free to ask 
I will try to update weekly and throw up some end of cycle pics.
| Week | Test E | Mast E | Anavar | Aromasin | Test P | HCG | Nolva | Clomid |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 500mg | 600mg | On hand | 100mg EOD | ||||
| 2 | 500mg | 600mg | 100mg EOD | |||||
| 3 | 500mg | 600mg | 100mg EOD | |||||
| 4 | 500mg | 600mg | 100mg EOD | |||||
| 5 | 500mg | 600mg | ||||||
| 6 | 500mg | 600mg | ||||||
| 7 | 500mg | 600mg | ||||||
| 8 | 500mg | 600mg | ||||||
| 9 | 500mg | 600mg | ||||||
| 10 | 500mg | 600mg | ||||||
| 11 | 500mg | 600mg | 50mg/day | |||||
| 12 | 500mg | 600mg | 50mg/day | |||||
| 13 | 50mg/day | 100mg EOD | ||||||
| 14 | 50mg/day | 100mg EOD | ||||||
| 15 | 50mg/day | 75mg EOD | 500iu/day | |||||
| 16 | 50mg/day | 50mg EOD | 500iu/day | |||||
| 17 | 40mg/day | 100mg/day | ||||||
| 18 | 40mg/day | 100mg/day | ||||||
| 19 | 20mg/day | 50mg/day | ||||||
| 20 | 20mg/day | 50mg/day |
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I havent been in the cycle log forum for some time now but I have to say that the layout and consequent conversation below was great to see and read... keep us updated with your plan Im interested to see how it goes and the results ;-)
Thanks
I will try to update weekly, nice of you to stop by 
So, after talking to GearHead a bit, I have decided to hold off on the primo and go a different route that he suggested. I will edit the cycle layout and get everything up tomorrow
Bro, thanks for taking the time to document your cycle meticulously and state your goals and rationale. Good work. Rare in this section these days.
However, even before I get out my calculator which I will do in a second, I know there is something wrong with the approach. Just from years of experience as a competitive bodybuilder, I know that you just don't do what you are proposing.
You are 225 lbs. @ 12% body fat. Which is already nice and lean. So you are carrying a total of (225*.12=27) 27 lbs. of essential and non-essential fat.
You would like to finish out your diet with <10% bodyfat so let's pick 9%. When you start dropping into the single digits it's harder and harder to maintain as you know.
At 9% you would be carrying (225*0.9=20.25) about 20 lbs. of fat. So, to reach your goal you need to dump 27-20 or 7 lbs. of fat. And that calculation is holding your body weight constant which would imply you are simultaneously gonna gain muscle on the cycle. That's not gonna happen so you are gonna end up at around 218 scale weight (roughly speaking). That is preserving your LBM of 198. Still above your bottom number of 210. Nice.
And you want to take 5 months to lose 7 lbs. of fat on a ketogenic diet? A little over 1 lb. per month. And you are proposing that you need a 20 week Test and Primo run to do that?
C'mon bro. This is so much overkill it defies the imagination. Like I said, just by reading your post and looking at your cycle proposal I knew it was off base. But there is nothing like staring at the numbers.
You don't need any gear at all to do what you want to do at the pace you are doing it. None at all.
So, from me, I could not even remotely endorse your plan here.
~
Save the primo for a competition prep when you're trying to get stage ready at like < 4% body fat. Primo has a unique looking finish to it for stage conditioning. It's nice looking. Personally I like the finish from HGH better for a comp, but that's my opinion.
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate what you are saying and understand where you are coming from.
Perhaps I got caught up in the numbers a bit, as I am more concerned with what the mirror says rather than the scale. I would love to stay at my same weight with a lower BF%, and I think primo would be best suited to preserve muscle on a lower calorie diet.
I have no plans to step on stage, but I have great respect for those who do so your advice is something I take seriously. But I honestly don't feel anything I am doing is overkill.
I have been running gear for about 8 years now, and have been training for 15. I got to 200lbs naturally before my first test cycle, and since then I have been up to 245lbs when I really wanted to add mass. I just prefer my weight now because it's easier for me to carry and I like how I look.
I run modest cycles, this is the highest I have ever run any compound, but I feel it is warranted with primo. I've never even run over 500mg of test, I do one cycle per year whether it's 8 weeks or 20. I run a proper PCT, get blood work and take adequate time off to allow my body to recover.
So, do I really need to run any cycle to accomplish my goals? No, I probably don't, and I see your point about that. But in all honesty, 95% of the people here don't need gear to reach their goals. I built a solid base training naturally and keeping my diet in check, and I will continue that whether I'm on gear or not.
I use AAS because I want to, because I like how it makes me look and feel. It's a purely selfish thing on my part, and I'm ok with that. I feel steroids can be used in a safe and effective manner for anyone who desires to do so. But that means putting in years of research and training before that first pin, which I have done. I'm no expert, but I know what works for me and my lifestyle choices.
I really do appreciate the help and your honest opinion, and even though you don't agree with what I am doing I hope you will accept my friend request in case I need help with anything. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge with your experience and I would love to pick your brain sometime
Bro, I think it's safe to say you don't have much experience with primo. For you to experience what it does you would need to be chasing low single digits of body fat. There a few compounds like that. Primo is one of them.
No matter really. I don't think you are going to damage your health.
There is an epidemic in this community with guys wanting to or thinking it's reasonable to run bodybuilding competition prep cut stacks to lose a few pounds of fat.
That's not reasonable and to endorse what you are doing here would be irresponsible of me.
Also you will find that primo doesn't feel like anything really.
Primo is an antique from the 1970s that is enjoying a resurgence in the AAS world with an aggressive marketing push from the major UGLs. It is not getting any traction in the bodybuilding industry.
Best wishes and of course I will accept your FR with pleasure.
GH
I agree with most of what you are saying, but I still want to find out for myself. If I'm wrong I'll come back and admit it
But thank you for your comments, I do appreciate it and wish you the best as well.
Bro,
I just got this feeling you're a man whose mind is made up. LOL :):) But seriously, if you're only two pins in and with all that money for the primo, why not hold on to it, use something else if you like, take yourself down to 9% like you are planning and stay there for a while. Then, shoot for like 6% if you have never done it before and see how you like that kind of conditioning. Do a prep just for the experience. Now is the time to see what primo will look like on your body. You'll get the full effect of it. It has a unique finish all its own and since it's not used so much anymore you don't see a primo finish much in competition. From what I can see and taking what you are telling me at face value you have the discipline and experience to do this. But, can you postpone gratification and switch gears on the fly like I am proposing?
I have cut all the way down on primo a couple of times and it is a nice look for sure. I mean it's not about you being "wrong." Wrong about what? I think you were very honest in your response to me. It's an opportunity for you to experience your body changing on a daily basis. Get what you paid for bro. There's nothing wrong in enjoying running gear. If you think I'm an elitist snob that thinks gear use should only be considered by guys that want to show on stage, I apologize if I came off that way.
Just a thought. LOL
GH
Very interesting proposition
Ive never tried to get down to 6% before, but I would be willing to give your idea a try. I want to get the most out of this primo run and do things as effectively as possible.
I can get down to 9% but I will definitely need some advice about getting much lower than that. I think 8% was my lowest and that was about 6 years ago lol.
And no, you don't sound like an elitist snob, I appreciate your honest and direct replies. Anytime I can get help from someone with more experience than myself I am grateful to learn
Hey bro,
I can certainly help you get down as low as you would like. I picked 6% because that is barely sustainable. Anything lower you can't keep. So, you will find out where you ultimately will land between 6 and 8%. 8% is sustainable but it requires work to stay there.
I'm glad that you are open to having an adventure with the primo. I think you are going to enjoy it.
Best,
GH
Excellent advise and great thread to follow. And very cool to see the OP being open and interacting well with you. It's very refreshing to see. Thumbs up to both of you from me.
Thanks bro, I try to stay open minded and not take anything personally. I know he is really trying to help and I am grateful for all the knowledgeable vets here.
Thanks bro, replied to your pm. Will update the log when I have more time
Appreciate it!
Looks good, I'm in! Curious about the MHN and gotta love the high dose long primo run
Thanks bro, very curious about the MHN myself. Seems like a lot of people are actually lol.