+ 1 my first test cycle at 48 - better late than never
Hello guys i thought i would run past you my first test cycle. I should have done before starting (not now that i am more than half of the way through) but... better late than never. There may still be time to correct something.
My stats
Age: 48
Height: 178cm
Weight: 79 kg
Body fat: 17-18% I reckon (maybe less?)
History: been training more or less regularly since Uni, used to take oral 19Nor when they were legal in the early 2000, then they banned them and i progressively slacked off training and put on weight. In 2014 started going back into training again, lost 20Kg of fat through diet and cardio, then did 4 weeks of Epistane before they banned it, gained 7 Kg of lean muscle (great results!). Then went travelling 6 months (reaping the benefits of being buff and trimmed again lol wink wink), lost some of that form over the 6 months so when i got back I spent 1 month priming for what would then be my first test cycle (ie toning muscles and trimming fat)
Objectives: Putting on lean mass, ie, gain 7-10kg, keeping waist size unchanged or even down 2-3cm (I have gained 6kg and lost 2 cm already), in time for the beach holidays, increase my bench press max from 80 to 100kg (almost there by the way) and strengthen my back muscles to avoid problems in future, eg going back to 8x chin bar wide grip.
Concerns: well obviously i got over the fear of injecting by now. I am just concerned about getting my hormons backin shape and avoiding gyno and water retention (fear of which had made me choose Epistane last year)
My blood pressure is in perfect shape (120/70) and so are cholesterole and liver. Didnt take any hormone test before starting.
Food: very disciplined. 2500-3000 kcal a day depending on training, only oats among cereals, eat bread rice potatoes very rarely, drink next to no alcohol, milk or sugary drinks, eat lots of fruit, yoghurt, lean meat and fish, 4-6 egg whites a day
Other points to note:
- I am taking regularly liver protection supplements (Essentiale Forte and Milk Thistle)
- I take supplements for on cycle and post cycle support
- I use Arimistane (25-37 mg ED) to avoid estrogen buildup and keep anastrozole to hand (not needed the latter)
- i will use super PCT (which contains arimistane 50mg ED) as part of the pct
So My main questions: am I taking too much hcg? (I felt my balls had shrunk after a month)? Is my PCT right? Any other comments?
| Week | Testosterone Enanthate | Pregnyl | Tbol | Adex | Nolva | Clomid |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 500mg | 50mg | ||||
| 2 | 500mg | 50mg | ||||
| 3 | 500mg | 50mg | ||||
| 4 | 500mg | 50mg | ||||
| 5 | 500mg | 50mg | ||||
| 6 | 500mg | 500UI | 50mg | |||
| 7 | 500mg | 500UI | 50mg | |||
| 8 | 500mg | 500UI | 1mg pw | |||
| 9 | 500mg | 500UI | 1mg pw | |||
| 10 | 500mg | 500UI | 1mg pw | |||
| 11 | 500mg | 500UI | 1mg pw | |||
| 12 | 250mg | 500UI | 1mg pw | |||
| 13 | 500UI | 1mg pw | ||||
| 14 | 1mg pw | 40mg | 100mg | |||
| 15 | 1mg pw | 40mg | 100mg | |||
| 16 | 1mg pw | 20mg | 50mg | |||
| 17 | 1mg pw | 20mg | 50mg |
- Bookmark
- 1
- 0
P2i2tI would say HCG is kind of overkill. You're not running much of anything to be shutdown hard enough to the point of necessary HCG use like 19-nors or any really high doses of test. Not to mention you're also running one of the least toxic and complicated orals available. But to each his own. Most will start their AI around week 4 while using test E considering this is when your levels really start to overlap and your serum starts staying at a consistently higher level. I just don't understand the logic in waiting until week 8 to start it? and like was stated below, definitely do not run adex during your pct. And no, adex is NOT better than aromasin at controlling estro. I mean everybody's body reacts differently to certain chemicals but the reality is that Aromasin actually kills the estrogen whereas adex only suppresses it. Plus the rebound effect is no joke when using adex. This is why its highly recommended to run aromas in during first couple weeks of pct if using ad ex as the AI throughout cycle. I would run 12.5mg daily (in split doses am and pm) of asin during week 1 of pct and 6.25mg daily in week 2....(and I just saw that was recommended below as well). Also a VERY important factor is when to start pct after running the enanthate ester. Its always recommended to wait 14-18 days (more or less depending on dosage ran) after your last pin. Considering your last week you are only using 250mg, 14 days should be good. So.wait 2 full weeks after last pin before starting pct. This may seem like a long time in between but its really not.
He does not mention asin. Speaks of prohormone. Read again.
Thanks mate. I'll start the adex at .25 eod ie 1mg/week and lower the test to 500, schedule changed accordingly. Do i take adex through PCT or stop just before?
Separately, I should have mentioned that I now split the test dosage 3 times a week ie MWF instead of MT. Dont think that matters from what i read but on twice a week i used to get to sunday night feeling a bit low.
3 pins instead of 2 each week is ok. I would begin adex starting week 3. Do not take during pct. I take 12.5 asin week 1 of pct and 6.25 week 2 to keep estrogen low. Standard dosing of nolv & clom weeks 1-4 pct
To answer your questions
Yes. Adex is better. Take only adex.
Test e or c levels take about a month to fully build up. Probably why you noticed the better mood when you did. Time not dose. Bloods are relevant to monitor estrogen (keep this between 20 & 50 and you'll be fine. I like mine in the 40s), test level, free test level, rebates blood cell count ( important for us older guys)
Save it. You will run another cycle.
Thanks, i suspected the hcg was high but literature on the topic is confusing so this is very helpful
A few questions for clarification:
Would you say Adex works better at controlling estrogen than arimistane (the active ingredient in the old PES Erase)? I am concerned that by taking both i may kill my estrogen and thus my libido.
Would you still reduce the test to 500mg, if i told you that my baseline test levels were on the low side when i started and i didnt feel the sense of well being and strength normally associated with test at 500mg after 2 weeks? That is why i upped to 600mg and thing started working much better in the gym and in the sack (I omitted this detail for simplicity). I haven't had bloods taken again, presumably you mean liver and colesterol since testosterone now would look off anyway mid cycle.
On the Proviron, please consider the following: the Tbol served me right by giving me strength (i upped bench maximal from 82.5kg to 97.5kg in 7 weeks) and gave me the dry mass i was after. Clearly, i had to stop after 7 weeks to avoid upsetting my liver. The rationale for the Proviron there was to continue the work started by the Tbol of keeping my core muscles tight in a less liver damaging way and polish the gains at the end of the cycle by giving me a more 'ripped' and tight look than the test alone would give me (with the right diet of course). With this in mind, would you still say i should leave the proviron? Would would the drawback be of adding it in once i stop the Tbol? Remember, at my age i may be the oldest guy posting here and who knows if i have the will to do another cycle....
Thanks buddy!!
Yes hcg is high. 250iu twice a week once balls shrink is all you need. For me happens around week 5. I would cut the test to 500 and save the proviron for a future cycle. Learn how your body reacts to test alone before adding new compounds. I would begin .5mg of adex end starting week 3 to keep estrogen in check. Some guys will say you don't need it. But as an older gentleman you probably will. Get bloods week 5-6 to see how your body is handling the gear.