+ 3 MY FIRST CYCLE- OPINIONS, ADVICE, AND INPUT WELCOME
Stats: 34yo 6'1" 230lbs 18%bf
Goals: powerlifting - increase strength and muscle mass, minimize fat gain with clean diet
Diet:
6 meals a day, 1 cheat meal/wk
Supplements:
25g BCAA's day
liver supplement
Fish oil - 4g/ day
multi-vitamin
1000mg Vit C
ZMA/ melatonin for recovery
BMR- 3700 cal/ day
+ 500 cal/day = 4200 cal daily goal
Macros-
Carbs - 450g
Protein - 400g
Fats - 100g
Training:
3 days/ wk fasted steady state cardio - 30min
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/po...
Drugs:
Test E 400mg/ wk in two 200mg injections
Edit: upped to 500mg
AI- arimidex, only as needed - adjusted at wk 4-5 blood test (wellness panel and hormone w/ total T, e2 etc)
HCG - 500IU wk/ starting wk4 to PCT
Ancillaries on hand - Aromasin, arimidex, nolvadex, clomid, HCG, Caber
| Week | Testosterone Enanthate | Pregnyl | Nolvadex | Clomid | Arimidex | Aromasin |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 400mg | |||||
| 2 | 400mg | .25mg | ||||
| 3 | 500mg | .5mg | ||||
| 4 | 500mg | |||||
| 5 | 500mg | |||||
| 6 | 500mg | |||||
| 7 | 500mg | |||||
| 8 | 500mg | |||||
| 9 | 500mg | |||||
| 10 | 500mg | |||||
| 11 | 500mg | 500UI | ||||
| 12 | 500mg | 500UI | ||||
| 13 | 500UI | |||||
| 14 | 500UI | |||||
| 15 | 20mg | 50mg | ||||
| 16 | 20mg | 50mg | ||||
| 17 | 20mg | 25mg | ||||
| 20mg | 25mg |
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Today is begin of wk 12. Hit bulking goal of 250lbs and been staying in that range. Aromasin dosing adjustments have helped keep water weight off but minor acne problems persist. Found HCG made the breakouts even worse so I've opted to save those for the week before PCT. Friday is last full dose and will be tapering down from there. So far a gain of 20+ lbs and great increases in strength and endurance. Gained a little size everywhere and seemed to gain less fat compared to previous natural bulks. Thanks to everyone for the advice and help!
Up almost 20lbs at end of wk 8, mostly water and lean mass, only slight increase in bf. Slight rash/ acne breakout on chest w/ itchy nips and bloating by end of week 6. Switched to taking Aromasin 12.5ED as symptoms present. Thinking I should up the dose or just keep taking it ED after symptoms subside but will wait on the results of today's blood tests. So far so good on this cycle. Great increases in all lifts - 15lbs on bench, 20+ each squat and deadlift. Training higher volume and noticing fuller muscles and great pumps. Planning a cutting cycle for the end of the year so I can see these gains.
I just popped over to take a look and read all your info. First of all, thumbs up. Nice plan and layout. Impressive and professional. It was easy to read and follow. I kept asking myself what's next, and then I read what you wrote, so right on, bro.
I would go everday as low dose as possible 6-12 mg with aromasin, maybe just 6mg, unless u get acne, and if using hcg, then 12. I didn't read all down below, but I saw Rusty say hold hcg. I know we all aromatize different.
Sounds like you're having a blast...Hell yeah...keep thinking what your gonna eat next...and don't slack on light weight day, high rep, burn that muscle...keep up the good work...
Thanks brother. I love the way this training cycle has gone so far. Everything has been going pretty well besides the up and down with the estro sides. I think I am going to go with an ED dose of aromasin @ 12.5. I've been taking it for a couple of days when sides show but stop when they go away so it has been up and down. Hopefully an ED dose will stop the ups and downs.
I started HCG @ 500IU/ wk last week as I noticed some significant shrinkage and I want to do what I can to prevent prolonged shut down. I imagine it is contributing to the estro issues as well.
Thanks again.
You'll level out...good job...you know what your doing.....estradiol is a good marker for everything...
Up 12 lbs end of week four, no estro symptoms so I really haven't run any AI other than .25mg adex about once a week. I've cycled injection sites glutes, delts, and quads and I've stopped getting PIP now that I am rotating back through. Warming the oil and slowing the injection down has helped. Beginning to notice muscles looking fuller, especially quads and delts. Energy and recovery are up as well. A little rise in libido but nothing crazy. Looking forward to the next 8 weeks.
RustyhookerThe next 8 will be exciting. Keep up the volume and you'll fill out that mass
Update: up +5lbs end of week two. Week three starts tomorrow, will be increasing test to 500mg/ wk.
After fourth pin, had minor signs of high e2 - moody (felt like I was going to cry for no reason) and itchy nips.
Took .25mg adex, itchy nips persisted next day, took another .25mg, all symptoms gone. Fought the urge to freak out and take too much AI, just waited it out. Blood work in the next two weeks to dial it in. So far so good, strength and endurance up slightly in the gym. Fighting a little bit of insomnia since end of week one. Melatonin timed 1 hr before bed seems to help.
Yourdadcycle looks good fella.. Dont forget to do 20min cardio a day..Eat clean full protein diet,try not to drink a lot shakes,preworkouts etc and you will be fine. Personally i dont suggest the HCG on cycle for a lot of reasons i am not going to explain now....but some people claim and recover properly with this approach. I never use HCG during cycle so i dont know how my body responds
Training is not worth mentioning here. If you dont know how to train dont use AAS. Go for high reps,one bodypart each day for mass-1 30 hour-high volume
12 reps to 20 reps each set.........especially on arms ( tricep-bicep) 20 reps maximum weight on the isolation machines-ropes etc...on the weights-bars 12-15 reps are efficient.. for pre workout i preferl Inosine on cycle.....i avoid the sugar brand preworkouts. However if you are prone to hair loss add small amounts on finasteride during cycle.
Best of luck m8..please count your stats before cycle and after cycle for the other members
Thanks brother. I know how to train so that definitely isn't a problem. I was an athlete my entire life until work and bad decisions caught up with me. I changed that around and I've been hitting the iron pretty hard for the past 2.5 years and have averaged 10+ lbs a year in lean mass.
I've added high reps to the end of each training session for the pump/ volume and completely cleaned up the diet - counting macros to the gram etc. I've been doing 30min 3xwk of fasted cardio. I will try to add more in.
Yourdadwish you the best....Just being mentally confident and you are going to achieve your goals. Mentally approach is very important prior cycles.
first: how is your BMR so high if your body fat is 18% at 230? how did you measure those two figures?
I have not run a Test cycle yet--plan to run my first cycle in about 5-7 months--but please explain why 400mg and not 500mg? seems that most first cycle recommendations are for two 250mg/wk, or equivalent..
I'm not a nutritionist, so to say that I couldn't give professional advice on that, but your macro count looks pretty solid.. would probably suggest another 200-400 calories though, if you're gonna bulk, it's like make sure that you have all the calories possible for any possible gains.. you WILL gain fat on bulking, that is just going to happen, why not force a little and be sure to get all the possible gains..?
I am NASM certified.. appreciate your 3-day split, hope that you do have more exercises in the mix-but keep bench/deadlifts/squats and incline/overhead barbell.. if you're comfortable with that order of days, then that looks good!
do like your on-hand PCT guys....
Non-AAS, non-dietician/nutritionist, but NASM-certified input: lose more fat before going into your next bulk.. challenge you to get down to 10-13% body fat before pinning. that will ensure a good [enough] diet is in line.. as far as strength-power, you can probably get more naturally--everybody can... challenge yourself before next cycle! I don't know you, or your goals.. and everybody is different... that being said- good post brotha, looking forward to seeing/hearing about results.
YourdadYour post makes no sense. WE judge the cycle there....Of course always when your on AAS you go for a full protein diet( he dont need your advice how to eat). Probably he is going for test Cypionate ( 200mg). You must understand that everyone here tries to eat more..However a lot of people are not a budjet or they haven't got the time to eat as much as they want. Be realestic and help him create a good cycle...He will do the cycle anyway whatever you are going to tell him. His bodyfat is not that bad for a steroid cycle. My first cycle was on a high body fat too and i put muschle while leaning out. Of course estrogen is way more on high body fat. I suggest run nolvadex on test cycle especially on high bodyfat ( 20-30mg daily is efficient.The diet shows the way on a test cycle. You shouldnt advice anyone in the first place without done AAS cycle
I do not take offense to what you have said, I am only trying to learn from others' experiences on here. I was only asking why he made certain decisions, inquiring about whatever research he had done prior--trying to learn what he used as his foundation. NOT being a certified nutritionist, I am not supposed to give advice on that, besides basic/rudimentary guidance such as drink water and calories in/out... I AM certified for personal training, and so I was expressing interest in his routine and making an appropriate suggestion, that certainly was entitled to be elicited--nonetheless, was just that, a suggestion and not by any means intended to be taken in a condescending manner. LASTLY, yes, I have not run an AAS cycle yet--and you know why? Because I have lifted for a long time, because I have practiced many diets closely, and I am STILL not ready. Everyone is on their own timeline, and there is no rush to run a cycle, and anyone who does peer pressure or advise someone to run a cycle before they know their shit (whether it be diet, workout, or the AAS) then I would say that is wrong. RESEARCH dietetics, PRACTICE good diet, RESEARCH workout routines, PRACTICE many workout routines, AND KNOW YOUR AAS/CYCLE shit before getting into it. EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, that I know that runs cycles says the same thing--> do not rush into it, know your shit, be counting your macros and counting your reps and know what the shit is that you are going to be pinning. Yes, I have not run a cycle, but I would be surprised/disappointed if any AAS vets disagree that you should get all of that down before even thinking about starting. You don't know what you don't know, so don't try to act like you know everything because nobody does... THAT being said, I do not know you-and I believe everyone reacts to shit differently- and I do not personally know what it is like to run a cycle but only vicariously through my EDUCATED, EXPERIENCED peers, so please do not take personal offense by what I say--I am only trying to help in any way that I can-- and just as much so, I am trying to learn from this community.
Yourdadyou take all this time to write this massive review to said things that everybody knows who is lifting more than 4 years. DIET, TRAINING are the most important but here our main angle is to focus on the AAS aspect.
There are a lot old members their that give free advice about diet,training and nutriton( see Diet clinic-forums). Assuming that " MECHANIC" is lifting quiet a long time before create this cycle....I prefer help him with the steroid angle and not things that he already knows. Powerlifting is way different from bodybuilding....Because you lift weights it doesn't mean is the same. training and diet are very different.....I appreciate your interest but being qualified as personal trainer ain't nothing to the world of cycling. When I see comments like " follow intense training,german style etc I just laugh".I remember the people holding a piece of paper walking around the gym decide what exercise is next....Only by reading this I feel awkward and begginer.. Everyone reacts different to different type of training, Personally I stack to the same style of training for years and saw significant improvements You said why is using 200mg and not 250mg....you have absolutely no idea about performance drugs and despite that you create a negative enviroment " mentally" to the user.
He decide to done a cycle at 30+ years old with more of 5 years of training I want to support this quy to achieve his goals as someone else will support me on my future difficulties....
I maybe dont know everything but at least I find what it works best for me...Changing programmes,follow several diets and scare to get in the AAS is not something professional my friend. In fact in 5 years I create ultimate physic by follow the same workout routine for years. The only thing I change is the exercise order and make my own adjuments during my journey. Programmes are bullshit. Is not science..when I want to cut I reduce my carbs...when I want to bulk I eat everything
JUST taking AAS DOES NOT just magically give you a tremendous build (or for at least the majority of folks, there are a select few who have the genetics)... that also takes tremendous workout routine and diet.. so when I just try some give and take, asking some questions about his AAS experience/research and exchange offer some qualified advice--that is certainly acceptable. I'm not an idiot, and I certainly respect both powerlifting and bodybuilding lifestyles, and I have professionally assisted many individuals pursue AND achieve goals in both avenues, and have also personally tested both myself.. please do not tell me that I am a beginner, and do not discourage me from offer an exchange of experience--I only wish to learn vicariously through the vets on here about their AAS use... "Programmes are bullshit. Is not science..when I want to cut I reduce my carbs...when I want to bulk I eat everything :)" ok... you do you. I'll just focus on learning from other mature vets who do believe in the science behind physiology, biology, and chemistry and how that all correlates AAS to lifting and diet to begin with.... "You have absolutely no idea about performance drugs and despite that you create a negative environment..." NO! I promote positive, EDUCATED environments, your mindset and foundation is as solid as synthol. mic drop
Thanks for your reply.
BMR is averaged from a couple of online calculators and is high because it takes into account my daily activity. I have a physical job working 50+ hrs a week and will be training six days/ wk on cycle. I've noticed that my body likes an equilibrium - if I keep it between 3000-3500 cal/ day my weight stays pretty constant. Losing or gaining takes a few weeks of -500 or +500 to get things rolling in either direction. You probably have a better idea of these things as you are NASM certified.
I have more exercises in the mix, in fact I have another post describing training in detail:
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/po...
I am open to any critiques of my training, especially anyone coming from a bodybuilding background. I am a powerlifter and have always trained for strength first and hypertrophy second, so any advice on gaining mass is appreciated. I normally follow a four day/ wk powerlifting split with three days off.
The new plan (followed 2x/ week) allows me to hit each body part twice a week, with one rest day. I am hoping that the cycle will allow that much more volume.
If all goes well, next cycle will be a cut into the 12-15% bf range. With my bf in the mid-high teens, I would have liked to start a little leaner but I would really like to put some more solid mass on before I cut down again. Last time I cut, naturally, I lost a ton of mass and strength and it took a while to get it back (probably bad diet) Like I said, I am strength focused so a bf of around 15% is ideal for me. Ultimate goal is to be around 245-255lbs (I am 6'1") at 15% so I can compete at 242. I'm not a bodybuilder and don't plan on doing any shows, ever. I appreciate any input you've got to share from a trainer's perspective.
Thanks again
Damn, you sound like a beast.. unless you're going to determine BF% via hydrostatic body composition analysis, a chart or bioelectrical impedance is probably justified--def a pretty solid metabolism to crush 3500 cal and hover in weight.. Again, not being a nutritionist, I feel that I should limit those suggestions--seems like you've got a pretty good understanding what you eat/how it affects you. Usually something that I see in my clients (on or not on AAS) is insufficient water intake.. just be sure you're staying mad hydrated. I usually recommend that athletes drink between 1-1.5 gallons/day-whether cutting or bulking, important during both.
Your workout looks pretty intense--you an intense dude!--may have to try Wendler... so that's 5 sets of 90% of your 5 RM? so you could do more for 5 reps, but choosing to do 90%, or a little less? What does your rest time look like??
If you want a suggestion, TRY GVT! German! Volume! Training!
Easily my clients' favorite routine--those who are trying to bulk... I've helped some professional athletes in offseason bulk up via GVT, and a bunch of the meatheads in my area all dig it too.. Especially when taking PEDs or AAS--great way to get 'volume' and pump! Can get a stupid pump!
Again, have not taken any AAS personally yet, can only compare posts with cycles/experiences that my peers have run and with research I've conducted.. if your metabolism is rly that high, you should be able to cut and get BF% down to 12-15% pretty quick (4-8 weeks)... unprofessionally would suggest caffeine pills (i.e. Hydroxycut, Hypershred, Super HD) or Clen.. obviously depending on how you react to caffeine and please do your own research on Clen before truly considering that--know many celebs/models who use Clen and cocaine to lose weight...... and DIET is always easy to adjust.. just do 1-2 workouts/day for 30-90 minutes each, hammer out the cardio, and also do 15-30 min abs.. maintain good average heart rate, drink water, and then once or twice a week go in and bench to your max... that's a quick way to cut weight, and also try to sustain power... will lose some mass, but calorie deficit is the only way that you'll lose weight, and losing weight is the only weigh you'll lose fat/reduce body fat % UNLESS you can also gain muscle mass proportionally, but bulking while cutting is pretty difficult... usually just advise to focus on one or the other... it does suck to be in the cutting phase and see some mass go, but when you're body fat drops and you see power retained, and get back into bulking looking shredded, then it is worth it!
BOTTOM LINE:
- seems like you have a good metabolism, so props
- just remember to drink water..
- check out GVT!! & let me know what your results are from Wendler
- you can cut via diet if you put your mind to it, but seems like you are moving toward your goal so keep it up!
Hey brother, thanks for your positive comments. I don't knock you for giving advice without running a cycle, everyone has different experience to pull from and everyone can contribute.
Wendler 5-3-1 is a kick ass strength building program. I've made steady gains over the last couple of years and currently have a mid 500's deadlift, 400+ squat and I'm working towards a 300lb bench (the hardest for me as I am a tall guy with long arms) not super impressive but decent for a natural. One of the forum members was cool enough to drop a ton of online books for free. The Wendler program is on there as well. here is the link:
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/i-thought-i-would-cont...
Funny you should mention GVT, I've been trying to add it to my program now that I am on cycle. With a heavy work sched, I find it hard to fit in any real volume without killing myself and burning out. I usually just go in, bang out some heavy lifts and then do a few hypertrophy sets. The end result is strength gains but my physique doesn't exactly show it, lol. I am trying to focus on mass building this cycle so I've added more volume and high reps stuff. One week in and I have a ton more stamina than I have had in the past. Maybe it is just placebo but I definitely seem to have more energy and recovery time is way down. Thanks again for your input and good luck on your first cycle.
RustyhookerDump the hcg. clean your diet. If you want mass, your workout needs much improvement.
Why dump the HCG?
Before you come back with "go research" I know that HCG causes a spike in estro that cannot be controlled with an AI as it is produced in the testes directly (correct?). But I've also read that low dose HCG can make the transition to PCT much easier.
What is wrong with the workout? What do you suggest to improve it?
Currently first five sets are strength focused, compound lifts. All accessories are 10-12 rep range 45 seconds rest.
Edit - my questions are not meant as disrespect or a challenge. They are only a request that you elaborate on your comments. I respect and appreciate your input
RustyhookerIncorrect. Your ai will control estro. But at that dose, there's no negligible spike in estrogen. Exactly why folks on harsh cycles use it at that dose. Its your body. I see no use for hcg in a base cycle. Use it during 2 week before pct if your balls became raisins.
Strength over mass....then stick with your workout. Posting your goals would help all readers understand your plan.
Got it. Can't find where I read that but I guess I misunderstood. You're the vet so I am going with your advice. Cycle adjusted.
Goal is listed on the second line of the text here - strength and mass. I'm adding more volume and hypertrophy to my strength plan.
As always, thanks for your input. I always see you on here working overtime to help us new guys. Just know that it is appreciated. +1 if I could.
RustyhookerYou'll do great things. You have listened, researched, and adapted.
Good luck bro
Richard.SimmonsAnd that's a +2 for you Sir.
RustyhookerThank you big boss!
BendTheBarbellGood luck! Looks like a great straight forward and simple first cycle. I did nearly the same exact thing my first run only difference was I rantest at 500mg ew. I had great results and I hope you do too! Good luck again bro.
Thanks for the support brother.
BendTheBarbellTake any advice you get from the vets around here. Rusty knows a lot. I didn't read the no more than 2 alcoholic drinks at a time. I use to drink a bunch in the service. IMHO don't touch the stuff while on. Or ever. I drink once while on cycle and it affected my performance for 3 days I noticed it screwed with my quality of sleep. Felt to me like a whole week wasted just cause of one night. Idk others may have different opinions but a wise man once told me it should b given up once u take on this lifestyle. Again good luck My friend.
Good advice on the alcohol. By no more than two drinks, I meant maybe two beers when out with the wife for dinner once in a while. No hard alcohol. Even as a regular beer drinker, I never drank to excess or to the point where it affected my lifting. Haven't had a hangover in forever. Advice from several vets I've seen was a couple of beers every once in a while won't affect anything. Any more and you are taxing an already stressed liver. Thank again