posted Mon, 08/13/2012 - 20:28
3351
First ever cycle. Looking for a G2G
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STATS, DESCRIPTION, GOALS
Looking for a g2g on this one. I had the Epistane around and have done two cycles of it before, hence the no ramp up. Hoping for lean gains and a decrease in fat. Not much else than trying my first cycle with appropriate supplemental nutrition and a solid workout plan. Any advice?
28, male, 6'4'', 235lbs, No clue on bodyfat %. Strong strength and conditioning background (10 years of sports and other interests, heavy lifting for around 2 years.
WEEK | TEST E | Adex | Clomid | Nolva |
---|---|---|---|---|
Week 1 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 2 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 3 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 4 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 5 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 6 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 7 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 8 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 9 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 10 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 11 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 12 | 500mg EW | .25mg ED | ||
Week 13 | .25mg ED | |||
Week 14 | ||||
Week 15 | 100mg ED | 40mg ED | ||
Week 16 | 100mg ED | 40mg ED | ||
Week 17 | 50mg ED | 20mg ED | ||
Week 18 | 50mg ED | 20mg ED |
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I surely enjoy how i spent hours back n forth...nothing changed. broscience at its best
I was on vacation and did not realize I could update the actual spreadsheet here. My apologies. All should now be legit. Thanks!
Anonyou need more clomid. 100/100/50/25 at least. also wait at least 2 weeks before running pct as the test will still be active. read up a little more on the clomid!
cdaddy7Compliments of Detroit:
I had this booked marked for my self hope it helps, Anastrozole
Arimidex (Anastrozole) is what we call an aromatase inhibitor (AI). In clinical use, it8217;s used to halt the progression of Breast Cancer in women. It works by blocking the aromatase enzyme, which is responsible for the production of estrogen. In athletics and bodybuilding, it is used as an ancillary compound to be added to a cycle of Anabolic Steroids. In this respect it is also used for its estrogen reducing properties, but it has the additional benefit of increasing testosterone levels, as we8217;ll see...
Arimidex Side Effects
Many anabolic steroids aromatize (convert to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme), and this is responsible for many of the unwanted side effects found with anabolic steroid use (acne, gynocomastia, water-retention, etc...). In one study, both .5mg and 1mg doses of Arimidex were shown to decrease estrogen by roughly 50%. The 1mg/day dose also increased testosterone levels by 58% (1). In that same study, in both groups, LH and FSH also went up slightly.
Changes in testosterone and E2 concentrations in normal young men (15 22 yr old) before () and after 10 days of oral Anastrozole at 0.5 and 1 mg.(1)
This would seem to suggest that for use during a cycle, a dose of .5mgs/day would be sufficient to combat estrogen-related side effects. It is, however, important to remember that some estrogen is necessary to obtain optimal muscle growth. The lower estrogen levels provided by ´dex seems, anecdotally at least, to produce a more "hard" and "quality" look for bodybuilders who have experimented with it***8217;s use in either a cutting or bulking cycle.
I´d like to point out that the elevation in Testosterone provided by Arimidex is so large that it can be used as a "form" of testosterone replacement therapy for hypogonadal men (2). Clearly, this suggests its use in a post-cycle-therapy (as well as its previously discussed use within a cycle) to regain natural testosterone levels and full functioning of the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Testicular-Pituitary-Axis).
Literature provided by the original maker of Anastrozole (Arimidex, produced by Zeneca Pharmaceuticals) states that stable blood plasma concentrations of the compound are achieved after a mere 7 consecutive 1mg daily doses. Also, Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase (3). Thus, if you want to take it for the entire duration of a cycle of anabolic steroids, you can simply start taking it on the same day you begin your cycle. Those are some pretty good numbers, huh?
But can you use it for the entire duration of a cycle? Is it dangerous? Well, certainly reducing estrogen levels in your body is good from a body building point of view, as it reduces water-retention and the potential for gynocomastia (if there8217;s no estrogen in your body, you can8217;t get gyno, regardless of how much progesterone is floating around)(5). Luckily this stuff is very mild on blood lipids (cholesterol) and doesn8217;t affect them adversely (2), in the studies I8217;ve seen.
Arimidex and Cholestrol
As previously mentioned, those lowered estrogen levels could possibly (eventually) adversely affect your cholesterol and possibly even your immune function. I am, however, very comfortable recommending Arimidex for relatively long-term use. This should be the ancillary compound of choice for those on long and heavy cycles, especially since it also doesn***8217;t inhibit igf like some other ancillary compounds (insulin-like-growth-factor is an important component of anabolism)(4).
Aromasin
Exemestane
Aromasin (Exemestane) is a steroidal suicide aromatase inhibitor, which means that it lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen systemization. (1)(2)(3)
This stuff was developed to fight breast cancer in post-menopausal women, who need a particularly aggressive therapy, and for whom first line defenses such as SERMS (Tamoxifen) have not worked. This should be our first clue in inferring that this stuff is pretty strong, or at least stronger than some of the other compounds which are used to fight breast cancer.
Aromasin and Side Effects
Aromasin averages an 85% rate of estrogen suppression (4), so it8217;s clearly a very effective agent for bodybuilders and other athletes wanting to avoid estrogen related side effects such as gyno, acne, or water-retention brought on by aromatizing steroids. Specifically, Exemestane dose this by selectively inhibiting aromatase activity in a time-dependent and irreversible manner (hence the "suicidal" portion of it8217;s name, I guess).(7)
As with most of the compounds in this class, it also causes a reasonable rise in testosterone levels (6), and as you may have guessed, this rise in testosterone means that Exemestane can also cause androgenic sides(8)(9)(10). Exemestane is very effective at both lowering estrogen (estradiol) and raising testosterone:
Estrogen and androgen plasma levels after 10 d of daily exemestane (25 or 50 mg) in healthy young males (mean ± SD; n = 9-11). To convert to System International units: estradiol, Pico moles per liter (x3.671); estrone, picomoles per liter (x3.699); androstenedione, nanomoles per liter (*0.003492); and testosterone, nanomoles per liter (x0.03467). (13)
So we can see that 25mgs is a very effective dose from that chart, right? As an added benefit, exemestane not only increases testosterone and lowers estrogen, but it also increases IGF levels (11).Additionally Worth noting is that Aromasin may possibly be less harsh on blood lipids (14)than some of the other (similar) compounds we use in the world of bodybuilding or athletics (other AI´s). It also has, at best no effect on IGF, and at worst could lower (13) it. AI´s are very tricky with regards to inconsistencies in IGF levels.
Unfortunately, you need to take Exemestane for a week to reach steady blood plasma levels of it, and exemestane has a ½ life of 27 hours (12.).
The ability of exemestane to lower estrogen levels by the aforementioned 85% makes it a very nice choice for use in any cycle where aromatizing steroids are used. In addition, since it8217;s not too harsh at all on blood lipid profiles, it8217;s a very good choice for longer cycles. It***8217;s ability to raise both testosterone levels also seem to suggest that it would be a very nice addition to a Post-Cycle-Therapy (PCT).
Anonright on, bro! you're like the mad scientist, huh?
First, let me apologize for being away (vacation!). Secondly, WOW, fantastic read and write up. I might have mentioned before that I do have a medical background and this was very interesting. Thank you for the information.
Great work! This bro won't lusten though. Should post this as forum
cdaddy7PCT should start two weeks after last test e injection
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
And wicked he really needs both to maximize his gains and that's prob y u lose urs. Use the proper PCT
you don't need two serms. pick one.
zewiThis is about the dumbest thing i have seen. Do you no what Clomid does? Or Nolva?
Doesn't sound like it.. GO READ THE PCT SECTION ALL OF IT!!! Cause you are Wrong!!!!
the blind leading the deaf. please, educate me further, considering I work in epidemiology, and just might have taken one or two courses in bio/chem. I couldn't care less what the PCT sticky written by an anonymous bro says.
Time for you to study some read world science on humans.
zewiyou do no what clomid does correct? Clomiphene aka clomid works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.
And you do no how Nova works.. It doesn't block estro at the pituitary it blocks it in other places like your chest nipple area and other receptors.
So take your Bio Chem class and kiss it good by.. Its about understanding how it works in men.. Keep taking that Nova only shit see you in a few years when your testis are not working like they used..
how you like them apples.
Anyone else care to chime in on this? Most of my research has indicated that running both might be more beneficial.
zewiI got your back.. +1 to you...
Saw the back and forth with the other bro. Thanks for dropping some science in here. Much appreciated!
Nolva clomid should be 40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50, not adex in PCT,no orals in first cycle, test only
Gotcha, changing that up on my spreadsheet offline as we speak.
cdaddy7Start that arimidex after Week 1. I wouldnt wait until week 4 too long and too much could happen
Most of what I have read tells me to begin that late due to the Test not being "fully" active in the body yet. Could you point me to a post or research on the subject?
Thanks bro!
i dont think anyone said it.. 2weeks after last shot pct. I have Anastrozole and started running week 1 but maybe your AI diff
cdaddy7The brand-name for anastrazole is arimidex
cdaddy7Not a fan at all of Epistane. Too many sides including liver enzymes elevation vs benefits. I would just run test only if this is your first cycle and I would lower the dose to 400mg/week to start bc that is the minimum mg recommended for growth. I think less is better in your case because your receptors are fresh and never seen test e. Therefore will respond nicely on a low dose. If by week 6 you are not seeing the results then I would consider increasing the dose to 500mg/week. The good news is the less you use and the more gains you get the less money you got to spend in todays shaky market
I like the idea and will most likely follow your advice. Thanks for the input!
zewiFirst cycle test only like fast said.. have you been taking liver support for you to be able to take orals, or do you not care about your liver?
I sure have, Milk thistle, NAC, and Tudca. Will continue the same on cycle.
Yeh if i remember correctly epistane is a PH... why not take a real oral steroid that's way more powerful with less unknown sides than a ph if you really want a oral kicker? And even if it's a PH there is no way 8 weeks of a oral is safe.. idc what PH it is it's no more toxic or less than other orals and 8 weeks is over kill.
most PH's today are not even prohormones. they are active steroids. but yeah, if i was to use an oral (not saying you should), i would use something that has been used in medicine for many years so that i am aware of all the dangers the compound poses.
First real cycle for me. I've taken the Epistane twice before (2 different cycles of JUST Epistane) and I know how my body reacts to it. It is really quite mild but I could tell a big difference in strength after about the 5th day. In effect, its a mild jumpstart until the Test kicks in.
Btw if I'm thinking of the correct company that is selling epistane from the PHF site which is bogus as shit and known for sending out fake PH's/underdosed which they talk about is the NEXT best steroid when its GARBAGE that usually attracts teens and turns out to be underdosed trash that just ends up fucking with your body and giving SHIT gains... Google their bullshit..