+ 3 First cycle-Test E 500mg/week (12 or 14 weeks?)
Basic info:
32 years old
5'6"
4 years lifting experience
Started powerlifting in March 2015
Current workout: 5 days
Tue- flat bench varied rep/set schemes - chest and tri accessories
Wed- back and bicep accessories
Thu- squats varied rep/set schemes- squat accessories like front/ Bulgarian split, leg press, leg curls, good mornings
Friday- tricep/shoulder accessories- lateral raises, close grip bench, military press, dips, overhead ext, etc.
Sunday- deadlifts - deficits,blocks, pause squats, wide stance leg press, GHR, leg curls.
As on cycle i will do two days of HIT cardio ( on my accessory days) either on bike, elliptical, treadmill, or stairs for 15 mins.
Weight history:
Comfortably walked around at 175 last year but from Late October-December 5th gained to 185 to compete at 181 class and get as much weight in as I could there (lenient with bulk), most of weight gain was fat as measured through electronic handheld at gym (16% in beginning-20%bf at end). Maintained weight at 185 until February of this year where I began a concentrated lean bulk averaging .5-1lb/week (details on diet below). My body current bf is 21% (same measurement tool) at 196lbs 1 week into gear, preparing for another meet in June (either competing at 198 or 220 class and not really worrying about weight class at this meet because not sure what to expect my weight to be with cycle. I will maintain lean bulk plan and continued meet prep)
Diet/Nutrition-
Meal 1-2 eggs 1c of egg whites, 1c of oatmeal
Meal 2-8oz of beef, full fat turkey, or 8oz of lean meat with 2tbsp of PB. 1 cup of veggies.
Meal 3- 8 oz of lean meat (chicken, tilapia, or Tuna)with 1c of veggies
Meal 4 pre w/o meal- 8oz of lean meat and 1 c of jasmine rice with soy sauce
Meal 5- intra workout shake with 2 scoops whey, 50g dextrose, 5g creatine.
Meal 6- post workout 8oz lean meat with either 1 c of rice, 1 c of whole grain noodles, 1package of pop tarts 1c oats, or 8oz of potatoes.
Meal7-2 tbsp of PB and 8 oz of milk
Supps-fish oil, creatine 5g/day, whey protein, pre workout, working on getting a good multi but not taking one as of late.
pre cycle weight: 194
Pre cycle bloods were done, FLAGS: IGF-1 was high to standards at 274, vitamin B12 was high at 1077, Estradiol was 34.8, Testosterone Total was 387, Testosterone Free was 12.3.
Week 2 bloods update
After a ton of estro side effects before I took my AI I wanted to see if the gear was working and how high the estro was up just so I can compare the feeling with a number. The following were my numbers:
E2-86
Testosterone - over 1500
Free Test- 58
At least I know the gear works! Immediately after the lab work I took 6.25mg of aromasin and been continuing that since. No other side effects have been noticeable except for maybe a little oily skin of that. Anther bloodwork update will be done at week 6 to dial in AI dose.
Cycle: Test E 500mg/week pin twice a week Monday AM and Thursday PM. Start liquid aromasin week 3 or 4 depending on sides 12.5mg E3D same as pin schedule at first and will adjust dose after mid cycle bloods if needed.
Test is from GP and PCT and AI is from Rasa (liquid form)
I'll post weekly updates as i take daily notes on how I feel, where I inject, anything different from the daily. Also I will include average weight for the week as I weigh myself daily when I wake up after using the bathroom and take the weekly average.
I currently have the log set up for 14 weeks although I know most test E cycles run for 12. Here is my question, my meet is in 14 weeks and I wasn't sure about starting pct the week of my powerlifting meet due to fear of losing any kind of strength. I was advised to end cycle on week 14. What are your thoughts or suggestions? Would it be that bad to end on week 14?
Thanks advance, I find this forum to be extremely helpful with a wealth of information.
| Week | Testosterone Enanthate | Aromasin | Nolva | Clomid |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 500mg | |||
| 2 | 500mg | |||
| 3 | 500mg | 6.25mg ED | ||
| 4 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 5 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 6 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 7 | 500mg | 12.mg ED | ||
| 8 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 9 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 10 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 11 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 12 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 13 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 14 | 500mg | 12.5mg ED | ||
| 15 | 12.5mg ED | |||
| 16 | 12.5mg ED | |||
| 17 | 40 | 100 | ||
| 18 | 40 | 100 | ||
| 19 | 20 | 50 | ||
| 20 | 20 | 50 |
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E2 at 86 is a little high. At only week 2, test will continue to rise as will e2. I'd double the dosage of aromasin next week. Lower e2 will raise free test as well, which is the main goal of adding test. According to the good ole doc McClain, an optimal e2 is 15-20, and better being lower than higher.
Funny you mention that. I was just thinking this today. As I've been going on this week I have been taking my Aromasin dose at night before bed (6.25mg ED). On the morning I wake up with wood, im super energetic, and extremely focused. At about lunch time I get super lethargic, oily, and today (Thursday) I started getting hot flashes again. I'm assuming test is being activated causing my E2 to rise. Do you suggest taking a larger dose of AI (12.5mg) ED or EOD? My only fear is crashing my estro where I would need some estro to continue the growth process.
Well, 12.5 eod would be the same as 6.25 ed - the same dose you're taking now. Perhaps try 6.25 2xday. I just think since you're only on week 2 it's going to get higher over the next few weeks. If you do go too low with the e2 at 12.5, it may be temporary as it raises more so. You'll find out at your week 6 bloods. Maybe by then even 12.5ed won't be enough and you have to double it again, then get bloods at week 9 or 10. All these numbers will give you a great reference as to where to start with you ai dose next cycle and where it needs to be throughout the cycle. Keep a log!
So a couple of things. First,this was dumb on my part, I actually realized last night that my AI dose could have been wrong the last couple of nights which caused my e2 to elevate. I realized I was counting the lines on the syringe incorrectly. I know when I first dosed my AI I was correct but the last few nights I took it late and the most recent when I woke up at 3am and remembered I forgot to do so. I'm pretty sure I dosed it at 3.12 when it should have been double that. I miscounted the notches on the syringe and thought they were .2 instead of actually being .1. I corrected it last night and will see how today goes. Needless to say though, I'm finishing week 3 and starting week 4 on Monday. I may have to up the dose anyway. I will try the 12.5mg (split into two 6.25 doses a day) if the symptoms persist. I plan on getting bloods done at 6 weeks to dial this in but I can see the changes in size and the strength increase in my workouts. I log my symptoms, weight, workouts, diet, and feeling everyday but update this log at the end of the week. Week 3 update will be up this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion buddy!
No it isn't. Aromasin has a short half life in males. It needs to be dosed ED. If it's EOD, you'll have a roller coaster ride going on. Not a good situation.
Your advice of 12.5 ED below was spot on and where he should start from.
Yes i do remember reading on here that originally they thought the half life was 23hrs however that study was on females and in males it was much shorter (like 7 I believe). Thanks for your input.
Just math-wise 6.25 x2 is 12.5 ...... A short half life is why I suggested 6.25 twice a day instead of 12.5 daily.
I noticed you said "number on the syringe" - liquid aromasin? That screams research chemical. I highly recommend ordering some pharma aromasin (or anastrazole, I prefer that, some prefer aromasin)... and throwing that liquid in the trash (or just stash it for emergency.)
I think it was just the way your original statement was written. Your advice after that was spot on.
I second the research chemical crap. Stay away.
Yes it is research Chem. I have some buddies who are veterans using the same brand and liquid aromasin. They made the suggestion to me and I've done my research on the research company and read various reviews almost all of which were good. I do have tab arimidex that I originally ordered however after I ordered that I decided to go with aromasin since it's an overall better AI in my opinion based on my research. Thanks for your suggestion, I will definitely switch to the arimidex in the event of an emergency or if something feels off compared to normal. Right now I feel it's a matter of getting the dosing correct first and once I narrow that in, if I feel there are more challenges with the AI I will abandon ship to the adex. Thanks again man!
Well doen mate . As the guys said well researched . Ps 1
Thank you sir!
This is a well researched cycle. My only concern was in relation to your stated aro dose. Your log says 25mg but I see from your comments that you're actually going with 12.5 e3d. I agree with the 12.5 but e3d may not be enough because of the short half life of aro. Keep a very close eye on sides from high e2 and adjust as needed. Bloods would be ideal as it will give you a clear indication of how your body is reacting. Higher BF usually means higher estrogen on cycle.
As regards your question on the duration, typical first cycle would be 12 weeks but you have a meet at week 14 so if you come off at week 12 you will be fucked by week 14. My advice is to run it for the 14 weeks, provided you have no significant concerns like high BP. To reduce the amount of time you're shut down I would get some hcg and take 250iu twice per week for weeks 7 and 8. Then use it in the week leading up to pct at 1500 Monday and 1500 Friday. Ive tried pct with and without hcg and i fimd hcg makes recovery so much easier. It also helps with retaining the gains you worked so hard for on cycle.
Richard.SimmonsI would even start out @ 6. You can always bump it up. Everything else you have laid out looks solid !! I'd + 3 yea if I could.
Yeah the aromasin dosage was always a weird one to decipher through the various info i gathered just because there was so many different options. Would you recommend starting 12.5mg EOD instead and then adjust after bloods on week 6? I'm definitely getting bloods done on week 6 to take the guessing out of things as seems to be the best practice.
Thank you for the suggestion on Hcg, I'll look into more info on that and highly consider. I definitely want to make sure I retain the gains and make the recovery nice and easy. Just to clarify really quick, you're saying take the hcg at 250iu twice a week in week 7 and 8 only, then start hcg again week 16 (week before I start pct) at 1500 iu Monday and 1500 iu Friday? Obviously continue through PCT correct?
Thanks again!
Rather than going with 12.5 eod i agree with the suggestion above to try 6.25 ed and see how that works. Adjust as needed depending on bloods/sides.
In terms of the hcg the 250iu twice per week in weeks 7 and 8 is just to wake up your nuts to lessen the time they are completely shut down. The hcg dose in the week before pct is higher because that's a blast designed to plump them up before you start with clomid and nolva. You don't want to take hcg all through pct. After your last shot of test wait a week and then take one shot of hcg at 1500iu Monday and take another shot on Friday and then start your clomid and nolva the following week and continue as you have outlined above. Continue taking aro during hcg administration. Don't take hcg throughout pct, just two shots 5 days apart in the week before you start nolva and clomid.
Ok that makes sense. Thanks again for the help. I'll continue to post updates on progress here.
Just did a week 2 mid week update. Starting to feel sides quite a bit. High temp, interrupted sleep, sweaty when I wake up, bloat in face and body, just to name a few. No issue with gyno or things like that. Very irritable though. In the morning I start out great but as I eat and the day goes on the sides get more pronounced. Trying to get hold of my med center to get me bloods for tomorrow morning (female hormone panel) so I can at least confirm E2 but if not if I can't get the bloods done by tomorrow morning, I'm gonna use AI tonight at 6.25mg ED. The last thing I want to do is crash my estro but I also want to get it back to the sweet spot to help minimize these sides. Thoughts?
The bloat is most likely to be a sign of high estrogen so start taking your AI now and get bloods done ASAP. If you start to notice dry joints that's a sign that your estrogen is low so reduce the dose. Drink plenty of water to keep your BP under control and avoid salt because it increases water retention. Have your BP checked because that's a risk factor when you're on AAS and even more so when you have excessive bloat.
FR sent so you can PM me
Hey boss, just updated my blood work from a last weeks test. Immediately after I got the blood work done I took 6.25mg of aromasin and have been continuing that everyday. Blood results came back and here are the comparisons:
Pre cycle e2-34, total test -387, free test 12
Week 2: e2-86, total test >1500, free test 58
I haven't had the same sides since I took aromasin. I'll take another blood test week 6 to dial in dosage. Just wanted to update you so far. Thanks for the help with the AI.
Richard.SimmonsYour welcome.