First Cycle: Sustanon + Tbol + Proviron = strength?
5'11" (180cm)
211lbs. (96kg)
Approx. 15% - 17% BF
37 years old
Looking to take my strength training to the next level. My focus is more on strength (powerlifting) but a bit aesthetic improvement wouldn't hurt, either.
Goals:
1) Improve lifts.
2) End cycle at 225 lbs. (102kg) @ 12%BF
I chose Tbol over Dbol so I don't look bloated. Not looking to get huge but move up a weight class carrying solid mass.
I've done several months of research and I'd like to know what the more experienced members think. Here are my questions:
1) I've read varying things about leaving a 2 week gap between the last injection and the start of PCT while using Sustanon. Is it necessary?
2) Should I be starting Arimidex at week 3 or wait to see if any gyno symptoms occur?
3) Considering my age, is cruising at 250mgEW (or maybe E2W) a viable option?
4) Would substituting Anavar for the Tbol be better for my cutting/recomp goals?
Many thanks for your time.
Cheers!
| Week | Sustanon | Proviron | Tbol | Proscar (Finasteride) | Arimidex | Nolvadex | Clomid |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | |||||
| 2 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | |||||
| 3 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | |||
| 4 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | |||
| 5 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | |||
| 6 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | |||
| 7 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | ||
| 8 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | ||
| 9 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | ||
| 10 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | ||
| 11 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | ||
| 12 | 500mgEW | 50mgED | 50mgED | 1.25mgED | 0.5mgED | ||
| 13 | 1.25mgED | ||||||
| 14 | 1.25mgED | ||||||
| 15 | 1.25mgED | 40mgED | 100mgED | ||||
| 16 | 1.25mgED | 40mgED | 100mgED | ||||
| 17 | 1.25mgED | 20mgED | 50mgED | ||||
| 18 | 1.25mgED | 20mgED | 60mgED |
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Thank you all for the replies thus far. Your input is greatly appreciated!
I have some of the gear (Tbol, Proviron, Proscar, Nolva and Clomid) but haven't purchased the test yet. I will take Jello's advice and switch to Test E @ 500mg/wk. I'll assume split into two shots of 250mg on Monday/Thursday (for example)?
With the switch of test, should I shorten (or eliminate) the 2 week gap between last shot and beginning of PCT? Should I keep the introduction of Arimidex in week 3 @ 0.5mg/E3D and continue at that dosage?
No one has mentioned the Proviron other than by indirectly saying to drop the orals. I will keep it out of this cycle and save it for another time.
Would still like to do the Tbol (not only because I've already purchased it).
Thinking about holding off on the Proscar unless I start to experience hair loss...or would it be too late already?
Catalyst, I've just come off a plateau in weight loss so I may drop some more BF before I start the cycle. I'll continue dropping BF and start my cycle when I either hit another plateau or 12%. That may mean trying to gain more than 6kg. From my extensive (I think) research, even 10kg of LBM may be possible for a first cycle.
I train heavy all year and will continue to eat and train hard for long after the cycle is complete. Planning on keeping most of my gains.
Killed the idea of cruising afterwards.
Haven't had any bloods done recently but am planning to.
Thanks for the help thus far!
AnonI usually wait ~20 days to start pct for test e. I know everyone preaches the 2 week standard but if you check out places like roid calc and calculate clearance times, 2 weeks is just a tad early to me. I would ask anyone to get bloodwork at the 2 week mark and see where their levels are at, still too high based on my personal experience.
Thats why the test prop taper is becoming more popular. One week after last test e shot you do 3 weeks of test prop, so thats a total of 4 weeks that you let the long ester clear and then go into pct ~4 days after last test prop injection. Not recommending this for a first cycle, just something to think about and research in the future.
As far as the adex goes, being your first cycle I would wait and see how you respond before starting it. You might not even need it, and if estrogen related sides do pop up at least you will get a feel for how they affect you. This is where bloodwork around week 5 is critical so you can make sure your numbers are in check or if you need to add or adjust anything. 0.25-0.5mg every 3 days is good to start, I always try to use the smallest dose possible and increase as needed. You need to know what the signs of too high or too low estrogen levels. Too high for me, nipples get itchy as the first sign. Too low, my shoulder and elbow joints start to hurt. Listen to your body.
If you leave out the proviron you shouldn't need the proscar at all since you wont be using any dht derivative drugs, hair loss shouldn't really be an issue.
As for the tbol, if you are dead set on using it then 50mg/day for 6 weeks is pretty standard. Its a slow builder so it takes a couple weeks to really kick in. Its not as toxic as other orals and doesn't convert to estrogen so that shouldn't be an issue. It also lowers shbg so more free test is available for your body to use. But use liver protection regardless, I like a combination of tudca, samE, and nac.
Hope this helps
P2i2tmake sure you still keep that gap before PCT. I personally wait 17 days when doing long esters such as Test E. Your adex protocol looks like your standard. Now that you have no short esters in there week 3 should be alright. Try with that dose and dial in as needed. Just try to pay close attention to any changes you may feel. Make sure you study and know the exact signs to look for when feeling for too much estrogen or estrogen depletion. Your first cycle is usually the time to familiarize yourself with all of these feelings and to start to set gauges as far as what your personal individual protocol Shall be. good luck bro and let us know how it went.
I think you're using too many compounds and your goals are unrealistic. Gaining 6kg and lose about 4kg of fat, that's a big yield.
P2i2tI agree with jello below. A basic one ester test cycle like Test E and NO orals or any other compounds would be ideal for this situation. But IF you plan on running this anyways whether it be because you already have the gear and don't want to feel like you wasted your money or whatever it may be, I will try to answer a couple of your questions because some help is better than no help just because I don't agree with you running the cycle right off the RIP doesn't mean it's helpful to not give some feedback. I would rather see you do a cycle I don't agree with correctly then see you do a cycle I don't agree with incorrectly. So....
question 1: yes it is necessary to leave such a gap in between your last pin and PCT. Sustanon has the longest test tester in the DEC. Ester. this Ester is even longer than Enanthate or cypionate. in 2 weeks is the recommended protocol for those ones. Let alone the DEC. ester.
question 2: Sustanon usually kicks in pretty fast and pretty hard.although 500mg isn't a hell of a lot, I still don't like to wait until I get to the point where I am having estro symptoms because that means it is already way over the limit and sometimes hard to control after that without knowing your body yet. if I were you, and I am NOT saying to absolutely do this mind you, but if I were in your position I would take .5mg of adex every 3 days and if you start feeling symptoms of low estrogen levels then back it off. If you start feeling symptoms of high estrogen then dial it in better. but because of the short esters involved I personaly usually would start no more than one week after my first pin. With me usually day four.
question 3: I can't go into question 3 because I don't know enough about TRT and cruising.
question 4: if your body fat isn't already in single digits or damn near then no anavar would not be a better substitute because you wouldnt tell much of a difference anyways. Not for cutting wise anyways. For strength wise you will be fine with the tbol.
again bro please consider doing a test e only cycle! or at least a test only cycle. Mixing in different compounds on your first cycle is not good because you never know what you are getting the reaction from if you are having a bad reaction to something.
Anonhttps://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/first-time-cycle...
You'd be better off with a basic test e cycle @ 500mg/week. Sustanon isnt really something I would jump into for a first cycle. If this is your first cycle then you will make great gains on test e alone, your diet and training will determine if you reach your goals. Have you had any bloodwork done recently?