+ 1 First Cycle Help
30 years old. 5'10" 178 pounds 11.25%BF. Looking to add about 10 pounds lean mass from this cycle. Been training for 7 years naturally. One problem...I was given advice that went against a lot of what I had researched and studied. Anyways, long story short, I took one shot of sustanon 350mg, and one EQ 300mg 5 days ago. After receiving info on the other forum about how stupid the plan he had for me was I am here to reconstruct a cycle that is safe (as safe as can be), and effective. This is what I had originally planned on. Any help is appreciated. Thank you in advance. Only concerns are quality of gear, health, and success. Need another 10-15 pounds of mass for competition season this year. Thanks! Was thinking of running test cyp instead of enanthate but not sure how often to pin it.
| Week | Testosterone Enanthate | arimidex | clomid |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 2 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 3 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 4 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 5 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 6 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 7 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 8 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 9 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 10 | 500mg | .25 mg EOD | |
| 11 | .25 mg EOD | ||
| 12 | .125 mg EOD | ||
| 13 | 50mg 2x/day | ||
| 14 | 25mg/day | ||
| 15 | 25mg/day | ||
| 16 | 25mg/day | ||
| 17 |
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dimonddavidsonGod its good having you back on the boards.
You should post a before picture up.
Just learned this my self but if you pin 500 a week you really only get 70% of that because no one factors in the ester weight. I did the math and 750 a week will give you a total of 525. Please dont take this ass use a lot of test im just telling you this so you use the actual amount. Hope this helps
I guess you came to the right forum. Enjoy learning
Much better this time around. Test e or c, the pinning frequency isnt going to differ, pin both twice a week, monday thursday, tuesday friday etc. Now what you need to know is either enanthate or cypoinate are long estered test, meaning they take a while to build up in your system, they typically reach peak plasma levels around week 4-5. With that said the first few weeks test levels will not be very high meaning estrogen will still be low and you will not need to use the arimidex right away. Id suggest starting at .25mgs e3d starting aroudn week 3, you need estrogen to grow its very anabolic. So you want some, a little more then usually but not to much. Start with that dose and if you feel signs of high estro up the dose to .25 eod. If its just a little bloat fuck it its a bulker the extra waterload will help. But if its causing high bp then you have to control it. If you start feeling signs of gyno, puffy itchy nips up the dose to the .25 eod. If it doesnt subside add 10mgs of nolva, that will nip it in the bit almost instantly.
Your pct needs work it should look like this (starting roughly 18 days after your last shot)
clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
You had hcg in your last cycle proposal, i always advise hcg, it will give you the best chance of full recovey and also a much smoother recovery. My doc has me pin it the day before i pin my test, so if you pin your test monday thursday pin 250ius of hcg on sunday and wednesday. You can wait and start it at the beginining of week 3 and run it right up until youre about to start pct, stop the hcg 5 days prior to starting pct.
And there you have it. Glad you did a little research and realized the cycle your coach set you up with made zero sense and came up with a proper cycle. If you do it right you can gain more then 10lbs of muscle on this cycle. And one last tip, if your running a 10 week cycle thinking two vials will work out perfectly it wont, unless theyre overfilled, somehow some always gets wasted. Youll end up getting like 8.5 weeks out of the two vials not 10. So buy an extra vial so you have enough to go a full 10 weeks.
Alright...I'm finally going to begin this cycle. I got the anastrozole drops instead of arimidex due to easier access. And I'm going 12 weeks instead of 10. Is the anastrozole dosed the same as arimidex?
Yes, arimidex is just a brand/trade name.
And where do I post my pics bro? I keep trying to upload them but it's not letting me for some reason
Try under submit - pictures.
Got it this time lol. Thanks. I think the files I tried to upload were too big before
And as far as signs of estrogen go, if I experienced those and needed to add the nolva on cycle would I continue it through the cycle or just until the symptoms go away?
Since u have arimidex, using that to manage estro sides should be ur top choice.
Nolva decreases IGF, which can cause tendonitis. I had that happen before.
And i relied on nolva alone back in the days, and realized its not as effective as adex or exemestane...
So my other question, how does the 350 sust and 300 EQ I pinned 6 days ago affect beginning this new cycle? How long do I need to wait to start? And should I get blood work done again before beginning?
As the half-life drops from each hormone, your blood levels drop. Since the doses were moderate and a one time only dose of each, a week ago, ur numbers are gonna be skewed if u get BW in the next two-three weeks. In fact, it might take 8 weeks to see true values...maybe longer depending on long esters of eq and sust.
So should I wait the full 8 weeks before beginning the above proposed cycle? And do I need to take anything right now to get me level again or am I safe to just wait it out?
Thats a good question. Its your first cycle, so u want it to be perfect without reservation. The shots wont shut ur endogenous production off. The truth is in your bloodwork and trends. Do u have any old bloodwork? When u can get a stable natty free/total T and FSH/LH are in range, as well as, pertinent data like lipids/thyroid, which may take longer than 8 wks, thats when u should be ready to cycle. And u need to be mentally prepared to change morphologically. Diet is key. I would hold off on using anything to level out. Clomid hCG nolva may boost ur hpta a little but ur bw needs to be evaluated, first, from the original hormone injections...
So I should get bw done now? And again in 8 weeks? And elaborate on what you mean by being mentally prepared to change please?
U could get bw now. It wouldnt be useless. It would be helpful. Its not a big deal if u dont.
in 8 wks...u may be ready to cycle at that point. U dont have prior labs before the aas inj?
Mentally prepared to change....are u in the right mindset to grow....will u be able to cope adaptively with the results that you achieve? Are u gonna turn into a hardcore steroid junky after your first cycle?
No, no prior bw unfortunately. Another mistake. But yes I've been ready to make the change which is why I tried to begin. I have come to terms that I will feel different and look different and probably think different when I'm on vs. When I'm off. And I've accepted that. Still not sure how I'll react to making gains that fast. It's almost like I can't really wrap my head around it. I've been training for 7 years natural and when i started I was about 140. So even being at 178 or 195 my heaviest has taken a long time. From what my friends have done I expect to gain 5-10 lbs which I'll keep and that's really all I want at the moment. Would like more of a dense look to my muscle.
Well ur on the right road...u have made significant changes...keep up the good work..
By no means am I questioning your advice I just have a few questions. Why not start HCG on day one? What is the logic behind starting week 3? Is there no damage to the Leydig cells until then? Thanks man.
It takes a bit for the hpta to shutdown, atleast with a basic compound liked testosterone. So starting hcg after two weeks is probably right around when the hpta is totally shutdown, give or take a week. It's not gonna make much of a difference in ones recovery.
Possible densitization of cells from hpta feedback mechanism. There are several documented regimens and explanations in here and the web about dosing and administering hCG. Like iron said u want to be finished with hCG a week before PCT. There was a regimen that consisted of three sq injections e5d and stopped one week prior to PCT and was dosed: 4500iu/3000iu/1500iu. Smaller doses decrease desensitization and are more manageable in terms of estro conversion.
Easy on the AI. Oily skin, acne...these are signs of high estro.
U need nolva in ur pct...and u need to post the standard doses and frequencies..
Im not an expert but I think HCG would be good. I read a lot about HCG and I think if he ran it through his cycle his recovery would be quicker. HCG would prevent his Leydig cells from shriveling away since they wont be getting any LH stimulation. Since HCG maintains that stimulation the Leydig cells will respond better to his PCT (assuming he figures it out) There is a study that showed 250iu's eod maintained testicular function after 3 weeks of 200mg Test e per week. Whats your opinion? I know a lot of people will say you need to keep your first cycle simple, but a 10 or 12 week cycle for your first time will probably make recovery difficult. Ive read something about a lot of AAS users who are now on HRT ran 10+ week cycles. And I remember just a year or so ago everyone on here recomended 8 week cycles for 1st timers.
I don't know man, that study doesn't make much sense. Takes 4-5 weeks to peak test levels from test e or c, so maintaining testicular function after 3 weeks on test e shouldn't be an issue anyway. That doesn't add up. I know a few guys who say they felt no difference when they used it or didn't use it. But I would definitely add it to my cycle, as I'm a better safe than sorry kind of person. Which is what brought me to this site anyway.
When testosterone is administered your pituitary stops producing LH and the Leydig cells begin to degenerate. That dosent have to do with the Test E peaking.
So you're saying even after one shot my natural test production is lowered a little. Would that explain the lethargy I'm feeling right now?
You won't ever really "feel" being in hcg, not at all. Not like being on testosterone. You want it in your cycle though.
bbopDepends on his goals in life, hes 30 so if he wants kids soon definitely why even risk not taking it? at the same time I know people who have been blasting gear for years and they get their girl pregnant soo its a dice roll. It depends all on the individual, if your going to take hcg take it at a low dose as to not over stimulate the cells.