mike7's picture
mike7
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Need help with Diet on cycle thank you in advance!

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Hello everyone,

I am currently 35 years old and decided to run a 14-16 week cycle consisting of just test c 600mg/week.

I have been working out for the past two months consistently and only been seeing minimal gains and j have always been a hard gainer and naturally skinny kid.

I hopped on cycle Monday and am currently 5’10 140lbe. My goals for this cycle are to ga8’ 20-30lbs by the end and be sitting around 165-170lbs. However, I definitely need some help with my diet and macros and what I should be aiming for.

Therefore, I was Hoping someone could help me out with a good diet to obtain these goals. I don’t know my body fat percentage but by current diet is

Meal 1 8am- 4 eggs/. 1 English muffin with Pb

Meal 2- 10/1030am -55 gram protein shake with Pv and whole milk

Meal 3: 12:30pm 8oz chicken 1 cup white rice with veggie/sweet potato on side or a flank steak white rice or salmon white rice I mix them up

Meal 4: 3pm same as above 8oz chicken 1 cup white rice veggies or sweet potato on side

Meal 5: 5-6pm - 55g protein shake after worn out

Meal 6 6-7pm - similar variation as the meals up top chicken steak salmon white rice veggies sweet potatoes .
Meal 7 930-10pm protein shake before bed

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated on what you think I should be aiming to hit as far as proteins carbs etc. diet is my least educated area so anything is much appreciated. Also I’m new to this and just trying to learn so please go easy on me..just a 35 year old guy looking to add some weight and start a new fitness again !! Thank you in advice as always!

NWApatches's picture

Eat beef

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irongame427's picture

Mike, I just realized you’ve been here a long time man. I probably gave you this same advice 12 years ago when you were still 145. It seems like you start lifting for a month or two, don’t really get anywhere, hop on cycle and grow to 165, then when the cycle ends you loose motivation to continue lifting and eating and you lose all the gains and go back down to 145. Or your body fights you and drops the muscle because it isn’t used to carrying much muscle. I have never really seen anyone be successful at this who starts lifting and taking gear at the same time. You have got to love lifting and this lifestyle first, build a solid base of muscle and strength naturally over a couple years at least, and then consider hopping on gear to enhance your physique, not build it. Because the same thing is going to happen after this cycle, you’ll stop lifting and lose all your gains or your body will shed them and return to what it thinks is homeostasis, 145lbs. It’s not worth putting your body through the stress of steroids to lose it all. It’s one thing on your body at 25, it’s very different at 35. And you probably think this time will be different, you’re going to keep lifting after and keep all your gains but I don’t think it will be. Youll be back here a couple years from now back at 145 ready to jump on another cycle.

You can get to 175lbs naturally in a year or two 2 if you start eating. That’s the key, food. Same thing we were telling you years ago. When I went from 125lbs to 175 naturally it involved a shit ton of food. I think you can go back in my pics and see where I started at 21. I was a Skeleton. Force feeding myself everyday for years, never actually being hungry. Knowing when I had to eat and getting it down. It involved very little egg whites, chicken breast, brown rice or oatmeal and a whole lot of full pounds of ground beef and steak, very little lean meat because its not calorie dense enough for people with little appetite and faster metabolism. whole eggs, bacon, non complex carbs, making my own double 1/4 pounders from Wendy’s. And some homemade weight gainers. Shit that isn’t going to make you full for hours. You’re 145lbs because you don’t eat enough, not because of your metabolism. I was skinny because I didn’t eat enough. But overtime your appetite will grow and it’ll be much easier to put back 3-4k calories a day.

The only compounds I would recommend to you are peptides for increasing appetite. Like GHRP-2. It will increase your appetite and has the added benefit of increasing your GH/IGF-1 levels. There may be some others if you do some research. Track your calories every day, throw back 3000 calories a day for a month, weigh yourself once a week first thing in the morning and see if you’re gaining about 1lb a week. At 145 you will gain on 3000. If not increase by another 500. If you find you’re gaining too much fat cut back by 250. Do that for a year and you’ll gain 30+ pounds. You can gain 2lbs of muscle a month your first year lifting. Such easy gains too. Once you’re eating. Forget the chicken breast and sweet potatoes and all that bullshit. You need calorie rich foods even if they’re dirty until you body gets used to the increased level of calories.

If you would have stuck with the program years ago you’d be 200 and lean by now. But today is the next best day to start. If you don’t listen to me you’ll be back here at 145 in a few years. Problem is, you’re now running out of time. It’s going go get much harder as you get older and I know you want this physique. This is still your prime but starting go get towards the tail end to build your foundation. Start now and you’ll be amazed where you’ll be 37. Then maybe run a cycle. Maybe spend money on a year of coaching from someone reputable who will hold yoi accountable with weekly check in’s and measurements.

mike7's picture

You are correct, I have been here a while a truth be told, I stopped working out and jussi getting back into it. Had a rough time was heavy into drugs for a while and just not in the gym, lost essentially any gain made back then and back to my steady weight of 145 …I am listening to everyone advice and will not hop on any cycle and just eat heavy, and lift heavy to build back a solid base first . Thank you for taking the time to give me the advice

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irongame427's picture

Glad you made it out of drugs alive. With the poison on the streets these days many don’t. Ex drug addicts do make great gym addicts though. Eating, training, and reading and learning is your new addiction. Just refocus that intense dedication to the gym and this lifestyle. I have no doubt you can be a lean 175lbs naturally 1 year from now if you start today. I’m happy to help you get there. I’ve been there and done that.

mike7's picture

Hey man I’m going to shoot you a friend request if you don’t mind.

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irongame427's picture

If you aren’t gaining off cycle you won’t gain on cycle. Atleast not anywhere near the level that makes the risk of taking steroids worth the potential reward. Nowhere close to the 20-30lbs you’re hoping for. Starting a steroid cycle after just 2 months in the gym is a bad idea. You have no base of muscle to build on, no joint, tendon and ligament strength making you prone to injury as strength rapidly increases.

Being 140lbs at 5’10 means you can easily gain that 20-30lbs naturally over the next year, muscle that won’t go away as soon as your cycle ends as it’s gained slower and your body has more time to get used to it instead of fighting you to return to normal after the hormones stop flowing. And your tendons and ligaments will strengthen at the same rate as your muscle growth reducing the risk of injury,

Diet and training must be dialed in before steroids. If not it’s just a waste of time and you’re fucking up your body for no reason. Spend a year training, gaining at a rate of 2-4lbs a month. Learn your body and what it takes to gain muscle. The question you’re asking now about your diet is what you need to figure out before steroids. And it takes some trial and error. And especially training. Figuring out what your body responds to best in the gym takes a while. While keeping diet consistent and trying different routines for a 6-8 weeks or so and gauging progress. Hitting everything once a week, twice a week. Higher reps, lower reps, more sets, less sets, which exercises etc, And all of this can be different for each muscle group.knowing all this before hand is how you maximize gains in cycle and make this remotely worth doing.

So id recommend stopping this cycle and spend the next year gaining muscle naturally and getting your diet and training dialed in. This cycle won’t go like you’re hoping it well and it’s not worth putting harmful drugs in your body for minimal gains. Steroids unfortunately aren’t the magic the general public believes they are. Diet wise I’d start by adding a 2nd cup of rice to all your meals with rice. Basically increasing your carbs to increase calories. Breakfast I’d add 4 egg whites for another 20 grams of protein. For your pre bed meal cut the whey to 25g, or maybe cut it out all together. I eat this protein green yogurt that’s 23g per 3/4 cup and I eat 1.5 cups. Comes in a black and yellow tub. Slow release casein protein keeping your muscles feed all night long. But you may need that extra 140 calories from 1 scoop of whey since the Greek yogurt isn’t that high in calories. Get yourself gaining at a rate of .5-1lb of week naturally.

Right now you’re trying to use this as a short cut, not an enhancement to an already dialed in protocol for a person already carrying a decent amount of muscle. Not gaining means 1 thing, you aren’t eating enough. When I started training seriously at 21 I was like 125-130lbs, total hardgainer like you with a very fast metabolism. I got up to 180 relatively lean after a few years or training. It took a shit load of food. You can do it too.

mike7's picture

Thank you for your advice and I knew it was coming I should say I was put on TRt for having low levels. I understand upping the dosage wasn’t the smartest idea but I also figured test c at 600mg a week isn’t much diff then 250mg a week on TRT, so figured would run a blast and eat proper train proper and see if I saw much of a difference. You really think it’s best if I stop and just go back to TRT dosages?

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irongame427's picture

Since I started where you did, actually even smaller, here’s some things that worked for me in the beginning. I thought I was eating a lot but once I started counting calories I realized I wasn’t. I started using my fitness pal soon after which makes tracking calories easy. They even have all the different brands of foods in there so you get exact calorie counts on everything. You don’t have to do this forever, But after doing it for a while you’ll get an idea of how many calories are in each foods and the portion sizes and you won’t need to log anymore if you don’t want to. Being 140lbs at 35 either means you eat nothing, or still have a super fast metabolism. I would guess it’s the latter. Mine has not slowed down one bit at roughly the same age as you compared to when i was 20. So you may need to incorporate some more calorie dense dirty foods to get enough total calories in. Boneless skinless chicken breast and brown rice may not do it for you. Very filling and not that many calories. I’d guess you’ll need to be around 3000 a day minimum to gain weight.

For training I wouldn’t bother with a bro split or anything like that starting off. Focus on the big compound lifts, bench, squad, dead lifts, barbell rows. Dips and pull-ups are great too. You want to build a base of muscle and strength. With these you’re activating as many muscles as possible with each lift. Focus on getting stronger every week, adding another 5-10lbs to your dead’s and squats. If you’re lifting hard, getting stronger and getting enough calories in you will grow.,Bench may develop a bit slower. Are you lanky? Long skinny arms? That’s how I was and still am to an extent. Because we have such long range of motion our bench will never be great. But the long lanky arms are great for dead lifts. But id do something like a 4 day upper lower split, so you’re hitting each muscle group twice a week. Primarily focusing on those big compound lifts. Throw in like 1 isolation exercise for each muscle group if you want. Like curls, tricep pull downs, flys for chest, lat pull downs for back, some calves on leg day, and some hamstring curls. Spend a year doing that and eating big and you’ll be 175. Then maybe consider running gear if you’re still not happy.

Imagedynamiks's picture

Freaking phenomenal. Excellent advice!

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mike7's picture

Thank you for the advice I should have stated my doctor has me on TRT does that why I figured doubling it and doing a blast for 12 weeks wouldn’t be the worse thing. I am exactly how you described lanky skinny fast metabolism and can’t keep weight on…people around me see how I eat and they are shocked that I’m not a fat POS. If you don’t mind can you give me a break dow. If what ur workouts look like during the week if your not focusing on specific body parts but just doing upper and lower daysz thank you

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Imagedynamiks's picture

You need to go calculate your total daily energy expenditure with a calculator online somewhere. It’ll give you a good idea of where your calorie count should be to maintain, then you add 300-500 calories (or so) to gain weight.

What’re your current stats? Height and weight? BF% approximation? So you want to gain weight, then focus on protein and carbs with low-moderate fats.

I’d say try to stay away from dirty bulking. Find your maintenance calories and add 300-500 calories daily. Find clean proteins/carbs/fats. Don’t eat crap. If you’re wanting to dial in, then actually dial in and get after it.

Don’t forget your cardio. It’ll help tremendously, too.

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mike7's picture

Thank you for your advice and I knew it was coming I should say I was put on TRt for having low levels. I understand upping the dosage wasn’t the smartest idea but I also figured test c at 600mg a week isn’t much diff then 250mg a week on TRT, so figured would run a blast and eat proper train proper and see if I saw much of a difference. You really think it’s best if I stop and just go back to TRT dosages?

Also what kind of cardio and how often I been afraid cardio will just make it harder to put weight on and make me lose . How often do you recommend
? Thanks again. For all your help

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irongame427's picture

The name of this game if you’re interested in longevity and health is milking every stage for everything it’s worth. Being on TRT you will gain faster than someone who’s natty. Milk that for everything it’s worth. Go until gains slow. Gains will start once your diet is on point. Then once gains slow and you’ve put in a good amount of muscle, and you should be at about 175[ by then, then if you still aren’t happy with your size then consider bumping up to the test. If you decide to keep cycling after that keep running just test until you stop gaining on it. If that ever happens. Then that’s when you consider adding another compound, etc etc. don’t just up doses or add shit for the hell if it. Go until 1 thing stops working.
I took about 5 years off everything while my wife and I had some kids. My test levels were completely shot. Idk how I. Survived to be honest, it was not fun. I basically made no progress in the gym all that time. Just tried to hold onto what I already had, which was tough as where I was at when I came off was way above what my body ever could support naturally. But anyways we had our kids and I’ve been on TRT for a bit now at 150mg a week and I’m gaining like a madman. Not full blown cycle speed, but quick enough. And I’d rather make slower gains at a healthy 150mg a week than faster gains at 500. I’ll probably need 500 again at some point but I won’t go there while I can still squeak them out relatively quick at 150. Although my next step would probably be something like 300-350, not 500-600. Anyways you can do the same, especially if you’re on a decent TRT dose. Get the diet on point and training and you will gain fast.

Now I just read your TRT dose. That’s a full blown cycle, not TRT. Is a doctor actually prescribing that to you? That’s reckless if they are. 250mg a week will likely have your test levels around 2000ng/dl, which is double the high end of normal. High end of normal depending on the lab doing bloods is usually either around 850 or 1100. So you’re going to be way above that. My 150mg a week had me at 722ng/dl 5 days post injection. So I was likely around 1000 right after my dose. I’m probably gonna go down to 125, or even 100. With TRT you want to be in the lowest dose that makes you feel good. My doctor says 800-1000 test levels ideally. But if you feel good at 600-700 that’s fine too. There’s quite a few complications and potential side effects with TRT especially at higher doses. But even 800-1000 is higher than the vast majority of people are naturally and will have you gaining quick. So you definitely don’t want to stay at 250 long. Have you done blood work? Without a lot of knowledge, regular bloodwork and the ability to interpret your bloodwork TRT is not something you should be doing on your own. So I’d recommend dropping that dose to 100-150mg a week. You definitely should just drop back down. You should have been gaining like crazy on 250 a week. More test won’t help your situation. More food and proper training will. If you’re diet is not on point and you aren’t in a surplus of calories you will not grow. Muscle can’t be built from nothing. It requires extra calories that your body doesn’t need to use throughout the day to keep you going.

As for cardio. At our age it needs to be done for health reasons. Your heart is your most important muscle. But it does make gaining harder to an extent. You just need to eat more food the days you do it. Cardio is easiest if you have something in your house or can just go run outside. So you don’t have to go the gym 7 days a week. So you’ll be lifting 4 days a week and I’d do cardio the other 3, so rest days only. Caloric needs won’t be quite as high since you won’t be lifting so you won’t have to replace as much. 30-40 mins of high intensity interval training or just steady state running of jogging. You Want to keep your heart rate above 140-150. Just know you’ll need to replace the calories burned with food. Personally when I’m bulking and the purpose of cardio is just for cardiovascular strength, I don’t do it fasted. I make sure I’m well fed. There’s some evidence the body will tap into glycogen stores in the muscle for energy with your heart rate above 140, as it’s the easiest fuel source. So it’s good to have some extra carbs and fuel floating around. When I’m cutting I do it fasted and I do a different kind of cardio. But you don’t need that right now.

Imagedynamiks's picture

IronGame has you pointed in the right direction, honestly, as far as the gear goes. He’s experienced and very knowledgeable.

As for the cardio - you want it for the actual cardiovascular benefits. You can do it fasted in the morning or even try HIIT. It’s good to keep your step count high, but try focusing on actual cardio, too.

Increasing cardiovascular endurance will help you push harder and longer in the gym - which is what we want. It keeps the heart healthy, the body feeling good, and helps keep fat at bay. It’s worth it to make time for cardio - something I’m learning, too.

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mike7's picture

Thank you!

What some good examples out 4 day upped/lower body split workouts ? Any threads on here touching on this?

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Limitedrider77's picture

I made more gains and physical appearance improvements in 3 months using this method then in a year just winging it.

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