Swoljaboy's picture
Swoljaboy
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+ 6 HGH conversion

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No Karma. Asking this just to learn a little better. It has been brought to my attention that DHT derivitive will play a role in diminishing HGH conversion. Mast proviron ect ect. I’m wondering how true this is. What other compounds can mess with hgh conversion. As well as anything else such as diet ect ect. I do take GH in the morning fully fasted pre workout. Also night time injection I do not eat before or a few hours after. So basically looking for any and all things that can diminish hgh conversion. Thanks.
SOURCE did NOT Tell me this was reason for low IGF-1. another member commented on the blood work stating this. Went to do some research couldnt find nothing so i came to here

Sciroxx's picture

Indeed according to empirical data from many individuals on forums DHT derivatives may lower IGF1 serum levelto some degree in some of the cases.
How ever it's very important to consider that the GH/IGF1 axis is very complex, and reflecting between the exact IGF1 serum read and the actual effect may be misleading.

  • First we must note that GH has direct anabolic and metabolic effects which are independent of IGF1 .... GH has its on receptors in almost any tissue

  • The IGF1 effect depends on IGFBP (binding proteins) so for instance the serum levels of IGF1 may be lowered by DHT derivatives, but the binding protein levels are lowered as well hence more IGF1 is bio-available.

  • It's known that androgens potentiate the anabolic effects of GH. The classic example is puberty of course, when the introducing of androgens turns a boy into a man. One of the possible mechanism in by up-regulating IGF1 receptors in target tissues independently to IGF1 secretion by the liver, many DHT derivatives has a very high activity in muscle tissue and may contribute to this effect

  • Most importantly, GH triggers IGF1 and other growth factors release locally and directly is muscle (and probably fat) tissues, this is called paracrine effect. This effects greatly and directly on local growth, and is independent on the serum levels. Thus theoretically the liver my down-regulate IGF1 serum levels, but there is a higher expression of growth factors in muscle tissue.

Bill1976's picture

This is what I was just looking for lol. Thanks

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Big Tone36's picture

Karl dropping knowledge, good stuff!

Makwa's picture

Thanks Karl

Makwa's picture
wanted's picture

Whats the mirror telling you

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wanted's picture

Dysmorphia is a real and powerful thing. I deal with it my whole life. So i know exactly what you mean

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Makwa's picture

Good find. I believe Swoljboy's bloods were analyzed with LC/MS. Regardless, Dacky's bloodwork shows that DHT has no effect on IGF.

vengar's picture

His tests were done through LabCorp. LC uses Immunochemiluminometric assay (ICMA).

That's why I use Quest for my IGF tests because they're LC/MS. I believe MegaT said that DHT has no effect on IGF when it's done with a LC/MS test.

https://www.labcorp.com/tests/010363/insulin-like-growth-factor-1-igf-1

Makwa's picture

then the fanboys for the source come to the sources rescue Lol

Makwa's picture

As long as the lab is using the correct testing procedure, you won't get false readings.

Makwa's picture

Dacky is a standup dude. We used to chat alot, especially about HGH and IGF-LR3. He was very experimentally focused to help rule out broscience.

Makwa's picture

Alot of times in this game all we have to work off of is broscience. Sources are always looking for a way out. We have to keep them accountable.

Makwa's picture

Classic response from a source with a bad test. I have some inquiries in to some people I trust who know their shit about this issue so I will report back if I hear anything different. This would essentially mean it is pointless to be running HGH on a cycle. Yes test will also increase DHT. So we shouldn't be running test with HGH either. Continue on with your test, mast and provi in your cycles along with your HGH.

Makwa's picture

From my understanding there is no accurate blood test that can be used when injecting exogenous IGF. It has something to do with the assay of the blood test that measures the IGF that is bound to certain proteins. When supplementing with exogenous IGF the whole point is to not have it bound by these proteins so it is essentially free floating and attaches to the receptors that we want it to when needed. This is my dumbed down version of explaining it but essentially there is no test for when supplying it exogenously.

I think alot of broscience is coming into play with the whole DHT IGF issue. DHT is an important androgen in the liver so I think a leap is being made that having elevated levels of DHT outcompetes or somehow blocks the conversion of GH to IGF1 in the liver.
I haven't found any credible evidence to support this this claim so that is why I put some feelers out to some people who actually know about this stuff. I feel if that was true, all of us who are usually doing bloodwork on cycle and testing IGF would all have piss poor IGF values.

Makwa's picture

I have actually heard that exact response from actual sources that had bad bloods pop up. I don't know where that is coming from though. just for shits and giggles I googled things like, effects of DHT on HGH, effects of DHT on IGF1 levels, etc. etc. etc. You know what I came up with zilch. If this was a major concern, the screeen would have been lighting up if it was even remotely commonplace. So, until I hear from real authorities on this, I am not going to believe in the broscience.