+ 3 Coming off TRT for fertility
The wifey and I decided it’s time to have kids, but after 6 months of ovulation tracking and trying, no baby. We went to a fertility clinic in October and my sperm count came back with a whopping ZERO sperm... fuck. Time to get off testosterone and bring it back! After reading a bunch of various posts on PCT and HCG on here I decided to make the plunge and start my recovery.
Here is what has happened so far:
Week
0 last t shot
1-3 HCG 1500iu EOD
4-5 100mg clomid+40mg nolva split am/pm, 6.25mg aromasin ED, and 500iu HCG EOD
6-now 50mg clomid, 20mg nolva, 6.25mg aromasin ED, 500iu HCG EOD
I had bloodwork done the last week of only HCG, after being off test 3 weeks, for whatever reason the doctor only tested free test, % free, and bioavailable, no e2 was tested.
The results (I’ll get around to editing and uploading them later)
Free: 73pg/mL
% Free: 2.76%
Bioavailable: 195ng/dL
SHBG: 12pg nmol/L
This is promising numbers so far and I plan to have more blood work done soon to check the results of my PCT. The first couple weeks were a bit rough, but I pushed through and tried to stay positive. Once I got on clomid, nolva and aromasin things leveled out and quality of life improved.
The fertility specialist that prescribed the clomid and hcg has literally 0 interest in restarting my HPTA and is solely interested in sperm count. That’s why I added in the aromasin and nolva myself. In fact, one of the doctors didn’t even want to prescribe HCG, and wanted to do clomid only and frighteningly thought HCGs role in fertility treatment was to maintain muscle mass and stimulate androgenic receptors and even dropped this gem “testosterone won’t make you strong, it’s when you combine it with HCG or steroids that you get really big” WTF! Thankfully, the head doctor is better and prescribed HCG at 500iu eod.
My numbers at the end of TRT:
6’0” 220lb
315 Bench
455 squat
365 deadlift (fuck me, I really need to deadlift more)
195 strict press
Now I had been slacking off due to COVID and lack of access to a gym before I got off TRT, and have continued to slack through my PCT, but I’m getting back into it.
Thankfully, I have retained most of my muscle mass and strength:
210lb
305 Bench
430 squat
350 deadlift
195 strict press
I look forward to updating you all on my progress and the next bloods. The tentative plan going forward by my doctor is to continue 50mg clomid ED and 500iu hcg eod for the foreseeable future, pending another sperm analysis in January. I’ll be keeping aromasin on hand in case my e2 starts creeping up, as I am e2 sensitive.
I appreciate all input on what I may have done wrong or well, so that i, and others, can learn from this.
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Finally got the sperm analysis results back, 5ml with 20 million/ml, so 100 million total! Dr. Recommend that I stay on the clomid and HCG until 12 weeks into the pregnancy, so we’d be past the miscarriage risk. Once we’re in the clear, wifey said I can finally tap into the 8000mg of primo I’ve been sitting on!
Update: I did my sperm analysis earlier this week. I haven’t gotten my results back yet, but turns out I don’t need the results! My wife told me she had a late arriving Christmas present for me and had wrapped her positive pregnancy test! We’re having a baby!
Bigun2That’s the good stuff! And quick too! What were you on the protocol for, 2 months? Fr sent, I’m also trying to conceive after long-term aas use.
It was right at the 3 months mark, which is when the fertility doctor said we should start seeing results. Shoot me a PM and we can chat about it
Is it yours?
I guess I’ll know for sure when it’s born haha, but I have had no reason to suspect it wouldn’t be mine
Nordberg!
Congratulations!
Bloodwork finally came in. I requested LH, FSH, E2, and total test, but what I got was only total T. Bummer.
Anyway, total T came back at 402 ng/dL. Im definitely feeling good about that number! That’s my highest non-TRT number so far. Dr had me donate blood since my hematocrit was high and then did a second round of bloodwork this week. Once again I requested additional tests, but we’ll see what comes back.
PcushionYou know brother this is the nature of the beast we play with. Props to you for keeping good spirits. A lot of guys run the gear and inevitably once they don’t bounce back ( not saying that’s your case, maybe a genetic thing) but they cry about it. As if they were clueless to the repercussions of their actions.
Dave Palumbo baby making protocol
muscle4plusbest i ever used, works every time=)
Hey Halsey
You dont mean to sound like an ass huh. Hmmmm well take a pic with your shirt off cause i need a laugh today. Oopps i didnt mean to be an ass
Have at it, I've had one posted for months. Legs arms the whole package(I've never sent a dick pic, but do u want to see the pickle too). Calling me small is a compliment, thanks bro! I'm not short though, sorry too easy.
All silliness aside, I apologize if I hurt your feelings or if I was rude. I dont want to be a negative person on this forum to anyone. I just feel people have to take some personal responsibility and help themselves as much as they can. This is a life lesson I learned many years ago.
Take care
I didnt say your small. But maybe tighten up or atleast tighten your lip when commenting to me
Ha, I tighten my lips for no man! Lol
You’ll get there buddy. I know that feeling of wanting a little one. I had to do the same as you to get my sperm count up. What your doing is truly a good thing and is very selfless.. it sucks to give up TRT for the time being, but the HCG will make you “practice” a lot. — practice makes perfect is what I say.
To be 100% honest, my wife got pregnant after I stopped the treatment. I am guessing that we put to much stress into it. Once we chilled and allowed the good lord to take it, she got pregnant. My advice to you and the wife, is to not rush anything and make sure both of you are de-stressed as much as possible. I think stress really plays a huge factor.
Good luck bro. You’ll enjoy being a father. It’s the best thing that has happened to me. Best thing about trying for a baby is all the “practice” tries ;)
+1 for good luck
Keep us posted
I appreciate it, bro. I told the wifey I’d do everything possible to ensure that we can have kids, thankfully insurance covers everything. Crazy to see the bill for 30 orvidrel prefilled 250iu HCG syringes was thousands of dollars before insurance.
Brother I haven't seen you for a while.
I hope you can fulfill your dreams.
Good to see you’re still around! Thanks for the well wishes, I’ll be sure to keep y’all updated.
trash300I know a lot people think I have no idea but trust me, this protocol will definitely not work, way too much HCG the first 3 weeks, everybody reacts different but 1500 e2d will let your estro rise fucking high and a such high dosage makes no sense (only for bostin loyd, lol)
Please stay away from Nolva and use an AI only if REALLY needed, in my opinion you have two options.
1)
Going off and pray that following stack works:
50-100 Clomid ed (if u tolerate this high dosage)
250 HCG ed (or 500 e2d)
25 Proviron ed
or if you want 90% success:
2)
100-200mg Test E or C. /week
500 HCG e2d
75 HMG e2d
50 Proviron ed (not necessary but it helps against the "numb" feeling u get on your dick from the HCG and it lowers your shbg which u should check regulary like all other values)
Why test? First u feel much better cause u need no fucking clomid, you have way more libido and you "don't need" your body for hormone production cause HCG and HMG produces enough LH/FSH and stimulates the testicles to produce enough leyding and steroli cells.
And don't forget a sperm cycle is 60-70 days - so for full success u've to run it for at least 3-4 months!
In 2009 I run following stack for 3 1/2 months (I had gear for 8 months):
200 HCG ed
75 HMG e2d
125 Test E / wk
First spermiogram showed 25000 (thats nothing) after 3 months I did my 2nd spermiogram and when I went out of the fertility clinic I got a call that my wife is pregnant!
(Spermiogram came back with 55 million !)
Get off the aromasin, it is not helping you at all, aromasin is a steroidal aromatase inactivator that impairs fertility.
Thanks man, I was under the impression that aromasin was the only AI available to counteract the increased aromatase activity caused by the HCG, while also taking nolva, since arimidex and letro directly interfere with nolva. It’s my understanding that keeping e2 levels down is important, since high e2 could cause pct failure. I am only familiar with aromasin when it comes to its use on cycle and in pct, would you mind helping me understand its effect on fertility vs its use in a standard pct?
trash300That's a myth written and published by a poor study from students! Fact is, NO, Aro doesn't help you, if u need an AI start with 0.25 Arimidex ONCE a week
edit: It’s my understanding that keeping e2 levels down is important
No, wrong, not too high yes but also not too low, if your level is +15 or even +20 over the reference but u feel good and have libido, all is fine!
I will plus 2 you on this because you are correct, arimidex is superior to aromasin on pct because aromasins sides are massive when used the way it's supposed to be used at 25mg a day and it suppresses more than just e2.
trash300Not here for karma but thank you Mr. , most important thing I want that u guys know is that going off completely is often, very often, the absolute worst u can do, either u do a regular PCT and run an own fertility protocol months later or u stop your cycle and continue with a TRT dosage and add HCG + HMG (without any Clomid, Nolva or an AI)
If u've used no hard compounds like Tren , Trest or Ment all is reversible, ALL! If u've used them the success is also very high!
My suggestion:
If you was a long term user, TRT-HMG-HCG
If u run "only" cycles regulary, either TRT-HMG-HCG , or TRT-HCG (NO CLOMID, absolutely unnecesary)
Here is an example from 2018, a friend he's 42, was on gear for 22 yrs without any break and after 4 months during following stack his wife got twins, two healthy and cute girls!
400mg Cyp / week
75 HMG a.m. + p.m.
500 HCG e2d
100 Proviron
4 IUs GH
0.5 Adex /week
ALL PHARMA GRADE!
Well now you ruined it. Coming off should be a high priority not blasting and cruising. Too many risks, constant bloodwork, 95% don't do that when they are "cruising." Amd without knowing where your levels were to begin with for estro and test makes it even more stupid, you can't possibly know how to monitor yourself if you don't have a starting point.
I do not condone self prescribing and never will.
trash300TRT isn't blasting/crusing Mr., bloodworks for sure, I haven't mentioned it cause it should always be a must!
95% don't do that when they are "cruising."
Mr., people they plan do get fertile again and do no bloods are dumb, if I plan to get my wife pregnant to know all levels is a must!
Starting point is always a blood work, during a fertility protocol you should do one every 3-4 weeks!
edit: If you did always cycles, coming off is an option but if you've used AAS for many years or over 20ty yrs, no way that your HPTA starts to work again. Maybe after years...but I dont think so.
You said if anyone is going to cycle they should never come off, that is not trt that's blasting and cruising no matter what you say. We can argue symantics all day.
And you can call me Mackdaddy not Mr. If you please.
trash300Cycle --> TRT or OFF --> FERTILITY PROTOCOL
Are u happy now IrishMack?
I'm not.
"TRT" and "Cruising" are not synonymous.
TRT is a doctor prescribed protocol; given under a doctors care.
A cruise is a self prescribed protocol for those who care little about their long term health and are to lazy, or addicted, to undergo PCT.
It is not semantics. If you're asking advice on eroids, it should be clear if you are under a doctors care or not.
Thank you kind sir, I am most pleased.
Molinin302Im not a PCT expert, I only give advice within my realm, but the one question that jumps out at me, and will probably be impossible to answer, is what was your sperm count and mobility before hormonal therapy? Could've always been low bro, its the cards some of us are dealt... either genetically, injury during youth, medications prescribed during our youth... first attempt at a child? Best wishes my guy
trash300Thats possible but really rare, I wouldn't worry about that.
Only if the endo. sees any probs on the ultrasound.
(straitened vas deferens, undescended testicles..)
Unfortunately I did not have a spermanalysis done until we started trying, so it is possible that I may just be naturally infertile. It sucks to think about, but may be the cards I was dealt. I can only hope that is not the case and proceed with treatment at this point. Thank you for the good wishes
Just remmeber its in gods hands.
If its meant to be it will be. Follow the plan put your 110% into it. I hope you the best
I dont mean to sound like an ass, but using steriods has taken it completely out of God's hands. Its basically the gamble you take when your priorities(aas vs kids)in life change. Which, for me I didnt realize what the fuck was really going on in life until most of it had passed. "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face".
I really hope the best for you and your wife. This is not meant to be negative, hopefully some of the younger members might think twice before crossing this road.
Nothing but love, bro!
You dont mean to sound like an ass huh. Hmmmm well take a pic with your shirt off cause i need a laugh today. Oopps i didnt mean to be an ass
See above
Molinin302The beauty of it is, even if you had fertility issues before, you're planning out a regimen, one that works.And there's a handful of guys here that will give you some very good advice. Take that advice, you'll be mailing them cigars in 9months bro!