posted Wed, 07/27/2016 - 04:36
3219
Which type of IGF-1 to use?
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Hello,
Im currently on hGH at 4iu a day. Im going to add in IGF-1. I see that they're are two kinds of IGF-1 available from most peptide places. Can anyone tell me the difference between IGF-1 R3 and IGF-1 DES? Please compare and contrast and if you have used either please post your results. Im hearing great pumps and lots of local muscle growth when injected into the muscle you just trained. This is fascinating to me. Please anyone with any input respond...
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LR3 is systemic, DES is site specific.
Never had much luck with peptide sources selling IGF, I can't imagine them selling legit IGF for what they charge.
Don't use any. It's all crap.
You won't be building muscle or that hyperplasia crap. Sorry guys, the bullshit has to stop
aasfreak69Im seeing lots of positive reviews of the IGF-1 R3 sold on the peptides board source here which I rely on to get my gear. I have found every source I have used for the past 5 years online and specifically on erowids. This place is great for source reviews and a lot of bros reporting IGF-1 R3 from these places is producing noticeable fat loss and muscle growth. Paulmbo who knows more than anyone about chemical enhancement says the ideal stack is 1000mg test, 50mg tren EOD, 4iu hGH, 20mcg Clen and 10-20iu a day of IGF-1 injected into the muscle trained that day. The guy says one 1mg vial should last you three months.
Palumbo ALSO says there is no need to go over 4iu of hgh. So your not even listening to the guy that you brougjt up
aasfreak69Yes I am. Im using 4iu of hGh every day. And Im using it exactly because he told me to do so. I plan to listen to a guy who was a freak. Genetics may not have played much a role in his physique so what else is there but drugs?
There is the whey isolate, macadamian nut oil, the carb drinks after workout, the almonds, reaching macros, The list goes on and on. He is a master in nutrition.
My bad i thought you were using more than 4iu.
He is probably referring to actual pharma grade IGF like Increlex, but I think it comes in 40mg vials. Which could last you awhile but it's very expensive and even more difficult to source.
aasfreak69No Im actually talking about garden variety IGF-1 R3 that you can get for $50 from any peptide source. Or I can get some Igtropin from China which is IGF-1 R3. I'd rather pay $100 for two vials and $20 for overnight shipping so its not sitting around in some PO getting hot and fucked up.
You guys should read the reviews for the peptide sources on here. A lot of them say exactly the same thing about IGF-1 R3. One guy even called it magical. But everyone is reporting gaining muscle and strength which is how I judge muscle growth, strength increases.
I meant that is the igf that palumbo was referring to.
aasfreak69I think Palumbo was referring to the IGF-1 R3 that you can get from any peptide source. I don't think he has any special access to research quality IGF-1 that any of us couldn't get. This was my impression from emailing back and forth with him over the past couple of months or so.
Ok, would like clarification on this. Research grade is probably the lowest quality you can get, hence why it's so cheap. Ideally you would want recombinant-DNA-engineered human insulin-like growth factor-1 (rhIGF-1), as pharma grade is the only way you know you would get real igf. Unless someone wants to cough up the cash to send a vial of igf from a peptide source for lab testing, there is no way to know what you are really getting.
People might think oh well it was cheap so if it doesn't work then no big deal. Meanwhile you are injecting an unknown foreign substance into your body with the potential to cause adverse effects.
aasfreak69Ok so I found some generic IGF-1 R3 from my Chinese guy who is selling it for $140 for 1mg. I just put in an order. I should be starting on IGF-1 on Aug 5 or so. I will post my results with it day by day if anyone is interested in that. Im currently on testosterone, hGH, and aromasin. The only thing different in my cycle will be the IGF-1. I am very interested to see if what people are saying about it is true. People are reporting site injections work best and they are getting great pumps and some impressive strength gains. I can currently bench 315 for 1. Deadlift 405 for 1 and squat 465 for 1. These will be my baseline lifts. I will report my body composition change, weight change, and 1RM improvements after 30 days on IGF-1. I am currently 220 at 8% bf at 6'2''.
Imo better a Chinese supplier than one of these pep guys so good luck.
aasfreak69That's what I thought too bro. I just don't trust these peptide places that sell all these exotic compounds so cheap. That's why I just made an order for 1mg of Chinese generic IGF-1. I am very excited to try it. The worst that can happen is basically nothing which would be fine. Im my mind nothing ventured nothing gained. I would love to read some more science on IGF-1 R3 but there's not much around. It would be awesome to get the money together and to do a double blind study of IGF-1 and see real empirical data about its effects.
Basically one of hGH's most important effects is mediated by the IGF-1 that your liver releases in response to an injection. I don't think that's the only pathway by which hGH works though. But I do think that IGF-1 R3 with an additional 3 AAs to extend its half-life can be an exciting new drug to use that is inexpensive (I paid $140 for 1mg) and is relatively safe.
Where do you think these peptide places source their product? Same place you got yours, sorry to burst your bubble but I doubt there are many peptide sources that produce in the US.
There is not much data on LR3 but there are plenty of studies regarding gh and igf 1.
I hope this works well for you, please keep us updated.
Yeah they get from China but not everyone is China is bad lol.
Also, even increlex showed no muscle gain in people. (Studies)
I agree with you, not everything from China is crap, I've had great results with generic gh, so maybe they got decent peptides as well.
aasfreak69Yeah all the hGh I've gotten from my Chinese supplier has been more than good. In fact its been the best hGH I have ever used. I read something interesting the other day on Ironman online where some guys were discussing China. They said that most of the gear and hGH coming out of China has been overdosed. This would explain a lot. It seems the Chinese are keen to get good with American bodybuilders and what better way than to supply them with good potent gear?
You think about China. Its not a third world country. I have been there and they have serious pollution problems but other than that they are an advanced society and have access to everything we have here in the US. This includes recombinant DNA technology to produce GH, IGF-1, Insulin. And they have labs that produce high quality steroids including testosterone, deca, trenbolone, etc.
If u look at my recent igf bloods for a Chinese generic I use, it's definitely quality and definitely overdosed. They aren't stupid over there, they know what they are doing.
aasfreak69Which Chinese generic are you using bro? Just curious.
Sent u a friend request
aasfreak69ok got it
You just gotta make sure who makes your gear isn't also making counterfeit nikes.
Lol, so it's a no go from simec, they don't have any way to test the igf
Damn them
Yep, I'll keep looking and see if there is a lab that can help
It's funny how no source will do this.
Not a single source...
It would be cool to have a testing donation thread for various igf's. Someone buys a vial and we all donate for its testing at simec.
I don't even know if they have a standard for testing to measure it against. I think I'm gonna email simec and see if it's even possible and what the cost would be.
I have Des from an old source that Is be interested in seeing. They had a shot ton of products and chemicals and such.
I even have a supposed myostatin hmp I'd like to test.
I'll find out, still waiting on a reply from simec
The research from that hasn't shown muscle growth either. But I've only seen one study and it's not long
I think there are more studies saying it doesn't directly promote muscle growth so I agree with you on that.
I have seen studies where it shows igf can improve protein synthesis as well as strengthen connective tissues.
I don't wanna take ur time but can you find those other studies. I wanna see them.
Also, protein synthesis to what degree versus other cheaper stuff?
https://translational-medicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1479-5...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439518/
Heres a couple good reads, kinda long but very informative. They don't really compare igf to anything but gh since they are usually used in the same studies.
Muscle growth from igf and hgh is water.
And too expensive for fat loss imo.
These guys know for sure they're gaining muscle?
PAULMBO? He was huge no doubt but it's all gone except for his head size.
Show me research where igf or hgh grows muscle. I wanna see this badly.
aasfreak69True and Im laughing my ass off at this comment. But the guy was huge and clearly knows how to get that way. I mean look at Dan Duchaine. That guy was skinny as fuck but he knew so much about gear, hGH, everything really. I don't base what a guy knows by his physique. Lots of animals out there with great genetics that don't know shit except lift get huge take some juice get bigger.
The problem is you're not going to find anything empirical with regards to hGh or IGF-1 growing muscle tissue because who's funding this research? Im going with anecdotal evidence and my own experience that hGh definitely grows muscle and every review on IGF-1 in the peptides forum says "I gained 5-10 lbs of muscle in 15-20 days".
I'm sure they knew for a fact they grew 5-10lbs of actual muscle. You're naive buddy, please explain where paulumbo researched his findings?
He's just another bodybuilder that bro scienced stuff while being on everything. Guys will say they gained this amount of muscle from anything new they try. Proof that it's muscle? Zero.
With all these reviews how come you haven't picked an igf already? I don't mean any offense in this thread, but you sound like a kid with zero experience.
aasfreak69He didn't mention any research because you know the guy doesn't use double blind studies. He did say that after doing 30 days on IGF-1 R3 he had put on 5 lbs of solid tissue (maybe muscle maybe water). But this is the thing Everyone who has used it reports really noticeable strength gains from it. This tells me something. That if it isn't muscle its intramuscular water which basically does the same thing. Because if you get stronger you can lift more and tear down more muscle which should rebuild bigger.
I already said in my last thread that I have the IGF-1 R3 that I plan to use. I got it from geopeptides which is a source on erowids. Im not a kid with zero experience. I would bet that Im older than most of you guys and have about 10 years experience with gear. People use this all the time as a put down but I just didn't want to sound knowledgable on a subject I know very little about which is IGF-1 R3.
I wasn't trying to insult you...
Yes I'm 30, so I'm younger but I don't just believe everything a former big guy or even a current big guy says. That's what kids do, without realizing everything else these guys are on. It's great to ask but to say for a fact that these guys gain muscle? And you're sure that you have igf lr3? Most of these companies have chemically synthesized igf which is garbage. Hopefully you have igf lr3 recombinant.
I don't see that being true due to being an expensive product and lengthy process. These companies are selling it cheaply. You'll gain water yes, but it's not the biological igf that will create muscle. A boost in strength isn't worth even the "cheap" price of these products. Even if strength ultimately helps grow muscle.
Just saying pal, these research places aren't carrying the real deal.
aasfreak69One thing that Palumbo did tell me made a lot of sense. He said that hGH causes new muscle cells to be created and when they're created they're not mature and thus very small. Training will cause them to mature and grow and that is why people say after 6 months or a year on hGH they really started seeing the results.
Sorry but this is sounding far fetched...
A guy that stops hormones will still have these new muscles cells that grew. He'd still be thicker (not huge) with some retention. Palumbo In this case would be a terrible example of new muscle cells, cause he's retained nothing.
aasfreak69Yes I am. I email back and forth with him from time to time. He's a good guy and takes time to listen and the guy has medical training so he's not just talking out of his ass.
He did tell me that taking more than 20mcg of IGF-1 will cause it not to work. This is because peptide hormones are very fragile and the receptor for them is inside the cell as opposed to androgen receptors which are outside the cell. If you flood protein receptors they will quickly up regulate and stop receiving more drug. This makes sense to me. Its actually good news because Img of IGF-1 should last you at least 30 days and then you should take 2-3 weeks off before restarting.
I'm extremely methodical with my research and I will study and learn and figure out every angle of something prior to wanting to use it. That being said I researched IGF for over a month and came to the conclusion it would be a great thing to add to my arsenal. Out of the top five professionals that I listen to and get my advice from, not one has said anything negative about IGF and in fact they have all promoted it and said it is a great use in the bodybuilding industry. In fact I have yet to find one piece of information regarding it not working until now. I'm not going to argue with anyone on this forum over a product that I've yet to try. But like I said I did buy it, I have it in hand, and I will be starting to use it as of the first of next month. So after 30 days or even 15 days I will start keeping people updated and posting on what I am gaining or not ganing from it. But I have to say I do not believe that it would be so popular and selling so well for the last 10 years trade if it did absolutely nothing. Products that do absolutely nothing last six months to one year the market and then everyone figures it out. This is not one of those products which is why all the large peptide vendors carry it. Don't get me wrong all products will help some people more than others. I know I get great games from EQ and I have a friend who gets almost nothing from it. So everyone is different so maybe there are a few people out there that did not get any results from this. But I do not believe that it is drunk and it does absolutely nothing because I have read and heard from hundred other people on how great it is.
LR3 is the newer version from what I understand. It's slow acting vs having in and out of your system. I've personally never run it but I have it on hand and will be starting it August 1st.
I'm sure experienced bros can explain it better than me. I don't want to say much because I haven't actually run it yet
aasfreak69Yeah I actually figured out that IGF-1 R3 has 3 amino acids added to it to extend its half-life in the body while IGF-1 DES is basically just raw IGF-1 that is active for about 20-30 minutes. This is enough time to do something in anyones body and I don't mind shooting multiple times per day but I have decided to go with IGF-1 R3 and see what happens. I agree with the last poster who said it likely has some positive benefit and for $50 for 30 days worth of it I can't see what the harm is. The worst thing that will happen is nothing.
Agreed. I spent $100 on two bottles shipped. So if I don't gain anything I won't be mad in anyway.
aasfreak69yes this is my point exactly. Maybe it won't do anything but then again it just might. I believe that IGF1-R3 has a place in the modern BBer arsenal. It may not be as powerful as testosterone but neither is hGH. But I have found that hGH seems to potentiate the effects of testosterone. I don't know by what mechanism and I don't think this is well understood by anyone. What university is doing double blind studies on the effects of high does testosterone and hGH on bodybuilders? None so we have to rely on anecdotal evidence which can be every bit as compelling as empirical evidence in the absence of empirical data.
My log book and calader is very organized and I will be keeping track of this. If I gain or lose even five pounds I will know about it. I started hgh in January so in well aware of what's it's doing for me and I'll notice if igf changes that or not.
aasfreak69Yeah me too bro. I really hope its not just hype. If I put on 10lbs of anything other than fat I will be happy. Even intramuscular water would be fine because this promotes strength and more strength means I can lift heavier and tear down more muscle tissue that the testosterone and hGH will surely help rebuild.