+ 16 Driving people away
I'm just going to come out and say it, some of you guys are starting to be very close minded with your cycle advice. You see something a little out of the ordinary and it's wrong, the op is a fool etc. Quite often you may well be right, but not always. It becomes like a pack of wolves sometimes. Some people see it as hostile and unwelcoming.
Let me give you an insight here. If I created a new account and posted up a cycle I've personally run in the past, some of you would immediately jump on it as "wrong" or "not how we do it". A strong man competitor comes along and hears "must be single digit BF to run gear". Fighter running just halo "shouldn't do oral only cycles". Is everyone that doesn't do it "the eroids way" wrong? Then I'm often also wrong.
There are pros in my gym that I think their cycles are a mess. But guess what? It works for them. So is it wrong? Is "different" the same as "wrong"? Don't misinterpret this as defending some of the lunacy I see, there will always be idiots, and a pretty reasonable quantity of them too. If something is a mess, say so, I will, but be receptive to the op's train of thought on why they're doing this. We're starting to get very closed minded in my opinion, to the extent where OUR learning is hampered.
I think we need to look closely at the way we handle these situations, we ARE driving people away. Some of them will be a waste of oxygen, but not all of them. I still want to learn, I still want my game to improve. Hell I need my game to improve if I'm going to achieve what I set out to do in the next couple of years. What I see day in day out isn't developing, it's standing still. Some of the new blood that walks through the door could be a catalyst, (unintentional pun), to that learning.
So what am I saying? Take a step back, the steroid world is bigger than eroids. Not doing things our way isn't a crime. Disagreeing with our advice isn't wrong. Someone posts a stupid cycle, sometimes you can help them by gently steering them rather than "WTF is this bro?". Most of us has run bullshit cycles, a lot of us have run good cycles and got them wrong. The reality of the world of AAS is there's hardly any black and white, it's 95% grey areas.
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StevebYou're going in circles. You can die from an infection by injecting Test E. It's possible to die from a lot of this stuff.
So once again why even post any cycle advice or even let eroids exist?
i had some of the yellow sponge guys high dose shit last year, i pinned it and almost died, horse cum fuking shit, 11 days in hospital, no pulse when i got to the er, staph turned cellulitis turned septic/ blood poisoning, i lost 1kg a day, 12 kgs down the day i got out, mini cardiac arrest, all sorts of shit, and this is the point, ive ran a shit load of juice and orals over the past 10ish years, besides getting real thick blood on an eq stack, this was my only issue, imagine some young, new kid with no research.
its good these a place they can be educated and discouraged imo.
Smh there's no real reasoning with u. I guess if that's the way eriods go it will drive people off bc I will Proly leave and so will several other respected members. So go throw out any advice u want in open forum and sleep good tonight bc a kid can see what u wrote without even having an account here. Btw how many people die from an infection from teste? Cause a lot of people die from slin and dnp. This is a steroid review site not a bodybuilders site. Slin and things should be used by like one percent of the population. Even then I would never touch it. People abuse stuff way to much already can't wait to see how bad it can turn not giving two shits what's on here
Roll and Steve - Darths comment below in red sums this up for me, we could debate this until the end of time and both sides would have valid rational arguments behind them. I see both perspectives.
Not what the thread was originally for so with respect I think it's time to call it a day.
StevebAll of these compounds are illegal and they all can be dangerous so why post any of them if little children might get hurt or arrested for possession????????
Your great Steve thumbs up
StevebYou're great at avoiding questions
Honestly cat right this is so far from the point of his forum. I'm done exchanging thoughts with u. Have a good one bro :). Sorry cat for hijacking your thread again lol.
rocketballzExcellent point bro!
Just reading through all this and thought I might give my opinion. Free free to discard it of course. You can google "contest cycle" and the second result gives someone's supposed full Olympia stack. Now with the world full of idiots like Boston Lloyd and others who post all their obscene drug abuse anyone who wants the information can pretty easily get it. I'm not sure blocking it off here is even slowing down the guys who are determined to get it, and chances are what they're seeing is screwed up misinformation anyway.
I know myself what taking too much gear feels like and I'll never do it again, but it's fun and informative to see what the guys way beyond my level are doing. And I know from conversations with guys that even the ones who post their cycles up and just take all the advice with an open mind and promise to "only do test and thanks so much for all your help" go off and do whatever they wanted to anyway. Or they go to different forums until someone tells them what they want to hear. People are in general egotistical and lazy and are going to do what they want anyway. I don't see the harm in getting some more quality information out there to share with everyone and increase our collective knowledge. Sorry for rambling lol
I agree with this to some extent but my humble opinion is that just because other sites don't give a crap about inexperienced people's health, doesn't mean Eroids should lose it's integrity.. And you are right people are gonna do what they want. People have told me my bf is too high to use gear etc and guess what I run gear anyways and my bloods are always fine and I feel great. Thats just my for instance.
But is it not our duty as people with knowledge to pass it on to those who lack it?
Maybe BFG can put up a poll and we can vote. I can see that both sides have valid points and we can debate it until the end of time and not reach full agreement.
A poll like that may really shed some light on this whole issue. I would be very interested in seeing the outcome.
I think so mate - I think ultimately it's probably down to the boss to see which way he wants to go.
Okay now-
Let’s roll this back a little…
1. Despite the many transformations, evolutions and revolutions that eroids has succumbed to, I think there is one thing that has remained a constant – EROIDS IS NOT A BB SITE – Do we have BB’s on this site? YES! Some pretty fkn dynamic ones who have a lifetime of discipline and dedication behind them. But THEY are not E’s premier demographic.
2. People are inherently lazy. Why didn’t the advanced group work? Because people are too lazy to stray from the main page. Why does the search bar collect dust? Because people are too lazy to spend all of a matter of minutes to seek out ABSOLUTELY anything you could possibly want to know about this subject.
3. (Segue from #2) People are inherently impatient. The majority of members here are looking for fast results with superstacks, high doses and compounds well out of range of their cycle history, experience and/or need. NOBODY wants to hear that you can make quality gains from TEST ONLY cycle for years before adding other compounds. Believe me, I understand that YOU are somehow special and I am super stoked that your diet and training are in check but it still doesn’t negate tis FACT! *This is for the Lions share of members
4. (Segue from#3) People are inherently egotistical. In the beginning there were a handful of us discussing all the things we DIDN’T know. Exchanging and weeding out all of the bad information we had all been victimized by. It seems like NOW everyone wants to discuss everything they DO know through spoon feeding, parroting and cookie cutter information. INFORMATION IS NOT KNOWLEDGE! INFORMATION BECOMES KNOWLEDGE THROUGH THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF INFORMATION! AFTER YEARS OF PRACTICAL APPLICATION THAT KNOWLEDGE BECOMES WISDOM!
5. (*Segue from #4) I do not mean to disrespect anyone with this next one.
We have some amazing members who have put in their time here and have learned tons and have become eroids Icons. Many of them got here green as they come and have stuck it out through the thick and thin. BUT 2-3-4 years on the board doesn’t translate to 10 years experience. (I have about 22yrs experience with about ½ of that tainted with bad information.) We have others who have been here awhile and from GO were just running cycles WAY beyond their cycle history, they get together with the others who are running cycles WAY beyond their cycle history and now we have set up an “impractical norm”. Guys if you are not reaching (and risking) for that elusive “Card” then tren, TNE, halo etc are just impractical compounds. I’m not waving the “Danger Will Robinson” flag on these compounds, they are great compounds. But when you are starting with these you are setting yourself up for a quick plateau. Talk to some of our Vet BB’s and learn about the mental anquish trying to eek out 2 more lbs and and extra ¼ inch of bicep. Then imagine being there in 5years.
6. (Segue from #5) Which brings up the susceptibility to body dysmorphia and becoming a “juice junkie”. This is a REAL THING fellas, most of us experience it in subtle ways already, but it can get ugly and out of control real quick. (and NO juice junkie and cruising are NOT the same thing) Then there is the FACT that it seems that a rather large number of our community is involved with one 12step program or another which tends to lend itself to predisposed defiance, self delusion as well as poor impulse control
7. So as far as the age old controversy of the “advanced cycles” on eroids the majority of the members really don’t need to be on them. The unwrtiten policy has always been (unless it has changed) to at least take measures to keep dangerous information away from eager young minds… So the moral of the story is that its really not fair to invite them to the BBQ and offer them a cracker.
…but then again “they’re just gonna do it anyway” >: /
My .02 – Miss me?!
All good points H. Life would be easier if this wasn't so true
RustyhookerCan't really debate that.
Drops the nuclear bomb of truth. Great write up
Very well said. And difficult to argue against. I have spoken of number 6 many times. I think most of us suffer from it in various degrees.
Another point I thought of earlier, when it comes to the taboo item we are all talking about the pm function is still working as well. We all know or if we don't it doesn't take long to figure out who does and ask them (privately).
I suspect, though, that a policy of taboo topics and refusing commentary on this one website does not keep dangerous information away from young minds. That is certainly the intention. The reality is that it simply drives people onto the general internet which is chock full of downright mistakes and bad information.
That is undeniably true. We take a position of "not cosigning it", so in reality we do nothing. Is that right? Does it help? If we take the taboo subject mentioned, a huge majority of the google / youtube methodologies on how to use it are nonsense, some quite irresponsible and dangerous. In the right instances, (which again would be impossible in reality to control), would it be better for certain individuals here with personal experience to intervene for the sake of safety?
I'm so on the fence with this one it's uncomfortable.
Rustyhooker^^^^ this. Go to any sI page. No stats needed. And yet folks bark about cookie cutters but there's no way to customize anything for the op because they aren't asking or giving completed details. Used to be a fully customized 6,7, 8...cycles were dine up nicely. Posted, info and results.
I was just thinking that while I was reading your diatribe! Great stuff.
RustyhookerQuestion @GearHead......why not share that info in the advanced groups? Sides, doses, and how to. It sucks to live here and yet search elsewhere. Advanced groups really needs a leader or educator.
The main reason is nobody is going there, it hasn't mattered who is "leading". It picks up in little spurts for a moment but then quickly fades off. The only way advanced will ever work is if it on the main page.
RustyhookerThat in itself is the problem. The big thinkers and gurus get mad when folks can't or won't compile a truly advanced cycle BUT won't post it themselves either. Which then goes to search other sites. It just seems logical that someone would flex and drop the knowledge.
Basically, the guys that know won't drop the real and correct info. So us lab rats just add and trial and error. Juicinator.....sure wish he was back. Dude was solid.
StevebIt's a double edged sword. If you make it private no one goes. And if you keep it open beginners see it and think they should run those cycles.
Nailed it.
Is there anyway that the group can only be unlocked once you reach a certain milestone, i.e., karma, amount of posts and time on the site. I by no means am I am expert, I just think it sucks for the guys who are and can't always share it.
That's exactly right, it is and always will be. We've always taken the cautious approach, is it time to try it the other way?
StevebFor sure. This is a question we have struggled with the entire time I have been here. It is a tough question with valid points on both sides of the argument.
StevebDumb people will do dumb shit no matter what. I say keep it open and just put a disclaimer or something stating that this is for advanced users only. If they do decide to run an advanced cycle from eroids at least it will make sense.
rocketballzI believe there's a bond between guys who have injected themselves with aas, pct'd, and done it all over again and again and that obviously also includes the trt guys as well. Primarily because of the trials and tribulations involved with the whole process of cycling. I'm nearly certain most of the trt guys pct'd, etc at some point in their aas usage but for whatever reason their bodies stopped responding to pct meds and re-boots. It's a bond that I don't even share with my wife, but only because shes a casual gym goer and not an aas user. With that bond comes a responsibility to share what works and what doesn't and to look out for others walking the same path. Its fairly easy to tell who is serious and who isn't and no offense to the young guys on here but I generally don't listen to guys in their 20's who give out advice or whatever on aas. They don't have the life, or aas experience to comment on much imo. But this is a good topic and a necessary one.
I think that bond you talk of is quite unique. I don't know about anyone else, but the environment I work in doesn't fit with my hobby in the slightest. Nobody lifts weights in my lab, a couple of guys are into competitive triathlons and cycling etc, but not lifting. I guess I don't fit the media stereotype "meathead" description, albeit a bullshit one. The gym is one of the few places in my life I've always felt I truly fit in. Most guys into serious lifting / bodybuilding etc are similar when you peel back the layers, we're all odd in a very certain way.
Unfortunately most of us don't fit in to society. I live in a country town where all there's to do is beer drinking and partying. All my friends from my childhood do is sit at home and if they leave it's to party drink some beer. I have no desire to drink I might consume a six pack a month maybe and unfortunately even in the gym there really not many people that are serious about it. It's all old people and the young crowd just busy on there Damn phones and so out of touch it's crazy. It's a joke but I guess that's the reason when I go places round here people are like holy shit your huge lol
I wanted to jump in on this thread to show my gratitude to what appears to be a lot of the long timers discussing the growth of this forum. Im new here but not new to the game. As a new guy, I read and read and read some more before creating an account and becoming a member. I will say, I love it here. Lots of knowledge and information both useful and maybe not useful to me but to others. Its nice to have a place to come to address issues, questions and look at reviews to avoid repeats of bad experiences of others. I will say this as you soul search amongst yourselves. I read tons before ever commenting on anything just because it appeared that a lot of the long timers were tired of the same types of questions day in and day out which I understand. Knowledge is power and Ive been able to find all my info by searching where other noobs may just through out the same question that had been asked over and over again.I appreciate all the info that you higher level guys provide. Im an over 40 guy but love the game as much as the younger crowd
A wise and vicious (not really heart of gold) Viking grabbed me as scrub and told me to do my research and do not be afraid to ask questions. As long as your prepared to listen respectfully and not just hear what you want you will go far and learn and progress and make those gains.
You are so right. Im not afraid to ask once I exhaust all the resources here if I don't find my question answered in a past post. Im not afraid to learn and certainly not afraid to take criticism.
I think the taking criticism comes with age. Let's be honest, nobody likes it, but it is effective at getting you to learn / improve. Nobody ever has an issue guiding people that have done at least a bit of research before posting up a proposed cycle.
Nice to see some fresh faces around. Intelligence always gets my respect. Stick around, join the party. +2
I intend to. I enjoy the information and am currently trying to learn as much as I can about some of the newer compounds. Not so much new but when I began things back in the 80's todays tren was yesteryears finajet. LOL times have changed
So as a new member, but someone that's been around the game a while, what to you think about the discussion below? We've always stayed away from discussing certain topics out in the open for safety's sake, but is that the right way to go?
As a fresh pair of eyes you're not carrying the baggage some of us are. Interested to see a fresh opinion.
Its like you have stated, some guys see a dead horse being beaten on topics that seem to keep popping up over and over again. Its not like you don't have the stickys at the top which everyone should read but maybe skip(young guys skip details). I didn't skip because I read so much prior to joining that I saw many references that said to read this sticky or that sticky. Rules are always first and should be. I do like that you guys are on the forum and are active (Darth Pale sticks out in my mind) and are consistently "feeling" out noobs to see if they should be even considering AAS. That is indeed smart of all the experienced guys not just throwing out info to one and all. People get hurt that way. Maybe a bit more compassion for some privately via PM or what not but you guys seem to be very aware of the types of people that jump on here and with good reason.
Nice post bro! That's why I never comment in cycle advice because I try to avoid those types of situations!
Now, that remark is coming from Cat, at his level. And so . . .
There are conflicting objectives at this site.
1) We teach safety first, which on the surface seems like an objective that shouldn't ever be challenged.
2) We want the knowledge of the community to move forward.
The use of the peptide hormone stack HGH / Insulin / IGF-1 Lr3 is plain vanilla at the national level in amateur bodybuilding maybe nowadays even smaller shows and among pros in the IFBB anyways, common practice in bulking cycles along with some fairly hefty anabolic protocols that would not welcome for discussion here. There isn't anything I know of that puts mass on the way that does. How that protocol stack gets executed runs the length of a short novel.
I threw that out there because of its shock value as well as its veracity. Yes, I realize we have an advanced cycles group but there is only so much time in the day to type in forums.
If we are going to spend 98% of our time dispensing advice on good, solid, simple, basic, safe stuff, I don't see the collective knowledge of the community increasing much. Much of what I do would not pass the safety test but it would certainly educate.
I know I'm not alone. LOL
I would assume (I have no way of knowing) that the basic stuff does a great job for most of this community.
That being said, however, our tolerance, for unusual protocols may have to change if we want the community to see AAS in a fuller light.
This would be a major decision to be taken by the site leadership and would certainly represent a departure from the way we normally do things.
You and I have talked about this in pm, we both know the deal here. I'd suggest 80-90% of the community are adequately served with the cookie cutter type of basic cycles that are regurgitated daily. Then there's another 5-10% that come through on pm with borderline stuff not for the open forum due to doses and being outside the box. It's that last few percent where things get complicated, where that sort of mass building info you detailed becomes a game changer. That's currently pure only behind closed doors for a handful of people.
Nice to get a post from Darth here to open it up for at least discussion. I'm on the fence. Selfish hat on, I'd like to be able to say "here you go folks, this is what I do", BUT I definitely don't want the inexperienced following suit.
Tough call.
Problem is many of the inexperienced will follow suit ,then parrot it along the grape vine while the ones who listen follow suit and parrot etc etc. I don't think advanced cycles should be easily accessible so just any average Joe can obtain it and follow suit. That's my opinion and it will never change. We got guys who up the dose much more as their cycle goes on. Last thing we need is for average Joe to be able to easily copy and paste an advanced cycle in hopes for faster and better gains , along with upping dosages along the way, while possibly throwing in compounds that if missused can cause serious harm. That's my take on it and it will never change. I fear the day that happens....advanced help should be a case by case basis out of reach of the inexperienced and newbs. If not we will have guys copying and pasting serious shit left and right with advanced side effects etc etc
Tis a shame we have to protect the least common denominator. I am NOT an advanced user, and have no business trying to replicate what advanced users take. I am able to make the decision what is too much for me, or what is doable regardless of how many advanced cycles I look at. Unfortunately some people will jump on that cycle they see with no regard for their own well being. Silly things must be censored so the knuckleheads dont destroy themselves.
Agree advanced cycles need to be "hidden" from the masses. Do not want to make it any easier for irresponsible people to hurt themselves.
Definitely. That's my fear too and unfortunately we all know it would happen.