posted Fri, 06/12/2015 - 06:19
2186
More free test means more estrogen?
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I'm on 650 test and 500 npp and I felt my estrogen was a little high on .5 mgs of pharmacy adex a day( which last cycle brought my e2 to right around 25, only added 50 more mgs of npp a week this cycle) so I started taking proviron at 50 mgs split twice a day and I swear after like 4 days or so my nipples are a lot more sensitive. I'm wondering if provi lowers SHBG like it should, making more free test, wouldn't that allow for more test to be able to aromatized? I'm thinking my body has released bound test actually leaving more to aromatized and causing some flare ups
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You guys are all lucky I run mast and provi and my estro will creep up given a lot slower Also let it be known that the whole estro kept under control and prolactin won't rise or any of that shit comes down to the user because I have 4 sperate blood test that proves that doesn't work for me lol definitely comes down to the individual.
Would really like to see that. I have read countless articles and posts saying that unless you have thyroid problems or pituitary problems e2 is what controls prolactin. E2 low, prolactin won't be fine, If you let e2 creep then prolactin can and will creep. For the record I've been sliced both pecs for gyno and try to do lots of research with this stuff
i can pull up multiple articles on people getting gyno from proviron.
RustyhookerGyno from proviron? You know provi was created to stop that site specific right?
Do a quick google search blew my mind, I was fine until I started proviron
RustyhookerOnly found provi gyno questions on bro sites. All the medical sites show research of stopping nipple issues
I just pulled up a quick google search and I read a lot of ppl complaining of the same thing. I'm gonna research this more but that is really strange. Like I said maybe a little high estrogen so I said I'll add some proviron for all the "great benefits"... Well within days my gyno flared up. I'm gonna get it under control and then later in the cycle try to add it in again and see what happens
There is some Bro science theories about DHT derivatives' effects on SHBG triggering a short term spike in bio available E2. Now I have not found anything conclusive on this but the idea does make some sense. First off one must look at SHBG not as a disabler of sex hormones testosterone and estradiol but more as a conserver or balancer. Its thought that SHBG prevents metabolic clearance whereas free or albumin bound hormones are irreversibly cleared from circulation. The belief is that estradiol and testosterone bound to shbg can activate ER and AR receptors. The idea of estradiol bound to SHBG being able to become bio active and even site responsive in some manner is based off research of females during menstrual cycles showing specific receptors being activated more then others which is not believed to be possible by free estrogen. Here is a good read about SHBG:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.326.6848&rep=re...
Now another thing about SHBG most people over look is even though it has a higher binding affinity for testosterone, the ratio of bound T and E2 is maintained even if hormone levels and/or SHBG levels are elevated. Therefore there is the idea that letting the SHBG build up is also binding a lot of E2.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9749416
Ok now to the Bro science. There are a couple ideas. One is that the DHT derivatives that lower SHBG also unbind/activate bound hormone in some manner. This idea is based on SHBG having a higher binding affinity for DHT then either T or E2. The other idea is that in the short term the quick drop in SHBG does not allow the E2 to become bound therefore it remains bioactive until it is metabolized.
Not saying any of this is hard science by any means. It could be a completely unknown phenomenon causing these gyno flares from no aromatizing hormones.
On a side note I am one of those people that has to have caber even with low dose test and a higher then normal AI dose to keep E2 on the lower end. I tried to not run a DA once and if I would have not had caber on hand I would have grown utters.
There are many guys on here who have had the same problems. All I know is I pulled bloods estro was low , prolactin was high , continued to keep estro low , prolactin didn't come down much at all. I definitely wouldn't have waited it out in hope it would come down over time. I just buy pharma caber and don't cheese on research chem shit lol. If it worked for everyone we wouldn't say have caber and prami on hand to everyone. A prolactin control drug wouldn't be needed. I always use pharma caber only and keep plenty in supply same with Arimidex and letro. The human body is complex, what works for one might not work for another. I was taught never to run tren or deca without at the very least having caber on hand regardless of AI use or estro numbers as the guy telling me either had experienced it before or was experiencing at that very moment , some had bloods some didn't. If it isn't broke im not going to fix it. I'll keep using my caber while running a 19 nor and keep advising people to do the same if not atleast having it on hand.
You have bloods where e2 is in the 20s-30s and prolactin is high? Giving you problems?
RustyhookerCaber? Blood test? Prolactin?
Don't need caber when e2 is fine so is prolactin. That's what last cycle proved. Wrote some posts about it with blood work. So ya prolactin is probably high right now but once e2 is controlled it'll return to normal
What works for you might not work for others brother. Why not pop a caber to lower it instead of waiting and dealing with the sides for a little while?
How much you think I have pharmacy caber but low prolactin sucks too lol
Touché
RustyhookerAwesome! ! You're on right track then
Lowering SHBG prevents estrogen from forming. So, provi acts as an alternative to an AI.
thats what i thought .... although an ai should be on hand because proviron cannot be a stand alone AI
There are many folks that run provi and mast (the mast / mest combo) without an AI and do fine from an E2 management perspective. I use letro. But, that is my personal preference.
yea thanks my understanding as well ... knock on wood im not really prone to gyno in previous runs of test only cycles ... so maybe adding the mast/mest combo is a good idea in my upcoming cycle
I don't use an AI, mast and proviron keeps things at a manageable level even with fairly high test doses. If you're not gyno prone, you can try it and I'll talk you through if you need it?
^^^^^ This ^^^^^
Which is why people like me use it.
thanks cat ... when my cycle starts i wanna run a couple things by you in pm .... maybe get a little diet help as well .... i eat what i know to be clean ... but im no expert and open to suggestions ....i really wanna get the most out of this test only cycle with the possible addition of mast/mest