Nitti's picture
Nitti
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+ 13 Orals and your liver!

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There is no doubt , no bro-science and no confusion when it comes to orals effecting the liver. Any medications or over the counter cold pills, pain killers or even vitamins will put some strain on your liver. We can all agree on that. When someone plans on running any oral steroids they are advised to follow a protocol combining Liv-52 & milk thistle to help the liver rid your blood of toxins. While this is a good protocol and I'm not bashing it at all, both of those together aren't iron clad. There is a better solution if more sources would carry it and make it readily available to us. It's against the rules to name any labs or sources but this is a gray area as it is a pharmaceutical drug and it in all of our benefit to be educated on it. So I have had a lot of people ask me about my lab results posted. Specifically the Hepatic function portion of it. I was using Halotestin at the time which is one of (if not the most) toxic compounds you could use. I was also using tren and test at the time and my hepatic function was not disturbed. My liver enzymes were all in range. It was a flawless panel. The drug Essential forte-n is what I was using along with milk thistle which I always take anyway and Liv-52. There is an oral version of Essential forte and an injectable. The drug is prescribed to people who have liver diseases such as sorosis of the liver, hepatitis C, hepatitis B etc. I used the oral form and it worked beautifully. With it being a pharma drug I was very careful with it and used only half the recommended dose. They are 300mg capsules. It is recommended to take 600mg/3x daily. I only used 1 capsule twice daily and responded well to it. So after breakfast I was taking 2 Liv-52 tabs, 1 essential forte and milk thistle. Then the same after dinner. I have been using this protocol ever since and wouldn't run an oral without it. People need to remember that oral AAS is toxic yes, but there are things people unconsciously take every day that can be far worse. Tylenol (acetaminophen) for one is probably one of the worst things for your liver. So if you're going to get blood work done including hepatic function ,you need to be mindful of what else you took that morning or night before. Alcohol obviously. You could mess up a test by popping Tylenol or drinking a few beers. Also nothing helps your liver like plenty of water. Staying well hydrated helps your liver do it's job. Flush out all that shit and clean your blood. Apparently taking B vitamins is a great help. Essential forte has B-vitamins as well. Most ppl can't absorb B vitamins efficiently through ingestion so they use shots. That's an entirely different topic. The overall goal for all of us, no matter what we are pursuing in the near future should be health. You want to stay as Healthy as possible at all times. That's the name of the game. You only get one liver. Don't fuck it up! If anyone has any other tips or methods they use for liver support , use this thread. Post em' up!

kibby's picture

Dude it's 4 years old????? It was new info at the time

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kibby's picture

Read down the thread.....it was clearly new to these guys 4 years ago as being discussed.

Why the big deal? So what if it isn't new information....its information definitely worth keeping fresh

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press1's picture

x 2 Mate

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felony's picture

Great stuff here.

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Fearless's picture

Hell yea! I've got some Liv52, TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic), Polyenylphosphatidylcholine & NAC (n acetyl l cysteine) on the way! Gotta take care of our bodies

t-bol's picture

I do once a day one capsule plus milk this plus liv 52 vitamins, till now no prblems

EmPee's picture

They are 300mg capsules. It is recommended to take 600mg/2x dail

I have the drug in front of me with the leaflet from the pharmacy and it is actually 2 capsules 3x daily. Not that it matters much just thought I'd point that out. Big fan of it, and always told people to ask you about its effectiveness when I advised them to use it =)

Nitti's picture

Thank you for pointing that out. I don't want to put the wrong info out there. I however only use it twice a day and one tab at a time. Mostly because it isn't easy to get and since the dose I use is plenty effective for me personally. None the less, I don't want the wrong info out there. I'll edit

EmPee's picture

I thought anyone could get it off Amazon? Hmm. Well if you ever have difficulty getting some, let me know.

Nitti's picture

I wouldn't know. I don't shop on amazon

GRIMEY's picture

Its on Amazon. Can't be shipped to certain countries though, I can't even have Liv52 shipped up here ffs.

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Denser's picture

Nitty, this is NOT so terrible. In fact it's invaluable. Thanks bro! +3

Denser's picture

I actually bought Essentiale Forte N 50 Capsules on that site. So I assume they were OTC because Amazon it very strict regarding this stuff. The box said that it was made by Aventis, but of course this could be counterfeit. Now after reading this thread, I'm wondering how my hepatic levels were on my last cycle. I'll review my labs, but really don't have a baseline reference.

mwagner630's picture

i have been looking for a few hours to find out if the Aventis is legit or not. i cant find anything saying otherwise. it appears that depending on where its purchased (country) its pharma or vitamin so it falls in a grey area.

Engineereddisaster's picture

Good post brother. High quality conversation going on here.
+1

.50 guns's picture

I belive genetic as far more implication when being more prone to a bad side effect,
Some people have stronger liver that will never be affected no matter how much stress they put on it, it is my case.
The same apply to kidney, gyno, cancer, prostate, hearth desease etc...
On the other hand my grandfather die from prostate cancer.
We have to look at our parents to see if a weekness is running in our genetics

kagedwest's picture

Why is it I never hear anyone running TUDCA? I for one like the studies I have read. Stacking TUDCA with LIV52 and Cycle Armor. I really like Cycle Armors ingredients and dosing.

GRIMEY's picture

great post, +1. I have heard great things about this essential forte. Gotta get my paws on some.

I use milk thistle and NAC year round. When I run an oral I up the dose on both of those. After completing the oral, I use UDCA to repair any damage as well as continue on with milk thistle and UDCA.

Here's a link to a good write up on liver protection by someone who is a member here on eRoids which cites some studies and has some great info.

http://forums.steroid.com/educational-threads/505283-ultimate-liver-thre...

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Catalyst's picture

Great post Nitti, +2

HllwdBdBoy's picture

ANYTHING that runs through the liver causes stress. The regiments "we" put ourselves through obviously causes a higher stress point... Just the amount of protein "we" run causes undo stress to the liver...

Good post NTT!

Nitti's picture

Excellent point! I actually heard of ppl getting protein poisoning from over doing it. The human body can only process 25-45grams per sitting. Depends on the individual but the fact remains. All these protein sups that have 60-70 grams per serving. It's a gimmick. Your body will not accept it all

baha's picture

Yes! A friend of mine at the gym (Note: he is 5'7 250 maybe 7% lol early 40's) but he says no more then 35 gram a sitting is all you need

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Big13's picture

NAC is fantastic!...i get it from my trt doctor...is still run liv and thistle though ...trifecta!

Nitti's picture

but I'm also gonna be using NAC

Elaborate please. I'm interested

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

N Acetyl L Cysteine (NAC) is a modified form of cysteine which has been attached to an acetyl group. NAC has been shown to increase levels of the antioxidant glutathione which can be used to help reduce cell damage, speed recovery from injury and aid lean growth. By reducing cell damage, NAC has been linked with slowing the ageing process.

N Acetyl L Cysteine is particularly popular amongst those who perform high intensity and endurance based sports due to the fact that it can help reduce muscle damage and promote a healthy immune system.

Further to NAC's ability as an antioxidant, it is also widely used by those looking to maintain or build lean mass. It has been shown to help reduce fatigue during exercise.

IMO.. liv-52 still needs to be used in conjunction for ultimate liver support.

Nitti's picture

I feel like I been living under a rock! Lol

TED's picture

thanks for the info nitti....do you get it prescribed to you?

Nitti's picture

No I don't. I imagine it's only prescribed to ppl with liver diseases or ppl on medications that can stress the liver. Never thought to ask for it. I might now. I'll use the excuse that I abused prescription pain killers for years and want to make sure I'm taking care of my body now.

Gymjunkie01's picture

How long after u stop Orals would u continue to run the milk thistle ?

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VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

2wks max....... running it longer can potentially have it converting to estrogen..... not many know that but its true.

That only refers to milk thistle as far as i know...... research all compounds deeper to get the facts bro then you know for sure.

Nitti's picture

I didn't know that either. You always pull these files out that you have buried in your memory bank. Glad they get stirred up. I have never heard that before ,even back when I was researching milk thistle.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

lol... thats why i love you bro for kick-starting my old gray matter, lotta shit in there it justs needs a jump start now and then lol................ good post bye the way bro this is bringing the eroid glory days back instead of all the BS fkn politic and religous stuff crap weve had lately. +3

Nitti's picture

religious stuff crap

Hey hey, no using the R word in my posts. It's blaspheming in my R_____ (insert R word). :-D

ShreddedCheddar's picture

X2! I've seen that a couple of times on here but nobody had made an actual write up on it. I did find this....

Hormone-sensitive conditions such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: Extracts from milk thistle PLANT might act like estrogen. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, don’t use these extracts. In contrast, the more commonly used milk thistle SEED extracts do not seem to act like estrogen.

Source:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/138.html

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

good find and thanks for bringing a link......... long time since i read the facts so im glad you have my 6 here +3 bro.

Gymjunkie01's picture

Really?? Wow I never knew that!!!!! Thanks for the info now I will have done reading to do

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