+ 29 Pramipexole - Better than Cabergoline.
Ok as we all know, steroids like deca and tren are progestins and are known to raise prolactin levels when ran with other steroids such as testosterone. These steroids:deca and tren are from the 19-nor testosterone family are recognized by the body as progestins. Progestins have the ability to increase prolactin levels. Prolactin is responsible for "deca dick" or puffy nipples when running a cycle like this.
So in addition to running an AI like Arimidex or Aromasin to take care of estrogen, we must also run ancillaries to take care of prolactin. Our most common choices are Cabergoline, Bromocriptine, Pramipexole, along with many other less common drugs. Typically Cabergoline is recommended since it is easy to dose and must only be taken once or 2x a week.
Well The problem is Cabergoline is an expensive medication. It is hard to find, unstable in liquid form, and often must be pre-ordered months in advance. Not to mention the cost each pill is between five to twenty bucks, and if you are running an 18 week long deca cycle, your talking hundreds of dollars.
So what is the best option? Pramipexole. It is also a dopamine agonist, similar to Cabergoline. It raises dopamine levels which lowers prolactin levels. Pramipexole is actually more effective in terms of prolactin supression. The best part is, Prami is very low cost. One bottle will last you over a whole cycle and at about the cost of a bottle of test. Not bad. But thats not all Pramipexole is good for. Prami has many benefits that Cabergoline does not have. Prami has been shown to increase GH levels by up to 300% (in normal healthy men)for 2 hours after dosing. Prami is also safe to use long term. Unlike Caber which can cause Cardiac and noncardiac fibrotic reactions.
Prami has a whole other host of benefits but I'll just post some links for you all to read.
The other most important benefit I will mention is it's anti aromatase activity.
Dosing:
The most important thing to know about Prami is you NEED to SLOWLY increase your dose. As slow as possible means more gradual change and less side effects. If done correctly you can have a very small amount of side effects or none at all. Minor sides like headache, stomach ache/nausea, lethargy are possible but temporary. You will not notice this much if start with a low dose and increase slightly gradually.
Starting dose is typically 0.25mg, but if possible try half of this dose. So first few days do 0.125mg, after that if you have little to no bad sides, increase to 0.25mg. Stay on each increase for a few days before hiking up.
For prolactin supression, 0.25mg ed is usually plenty, but you can go all the way up to 0.5mg if necessary. At these dosages you may not notice much side effects. Prami is usually taken 3-5mg per day by RLS patients.
Another thing is Prami is usually taken right at night about 1 hour before bedtime. This is because it can cause lethargy, which isn't a problem while you are sleeping. So you can sleep through most of the side effects. When dosing in the 1mg range, you will be waking up with numb hands every morning. This is due to the GH increase Prami provides.
I'll post a few links and stuff you guys can read to get more information. I just hope this helps to people looking for alternatives to Caber.
this link is a very long forum, but the first few pages have a TON of information. I highly recommend reading the first couple pages if you want to know the extra benefits of prami.
http://www.afboard.com/forum/showthread.php?30264-Pramipexole-and-prolac...
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?387247-Cabergoline-vs-Pramipexo...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramipexole
This last one is off topic, but interesting read. Apparently Prami has helped many people with social anxiety and depression
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/the-pramipexole-experiment...
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AnonBump
Jumping on pramipexole after reading this.
Can I still take prami while on pct and up it to 1mg for those gh benefit
Yes you can. Just be safe, its very powerful and will effectively increase your dopamine levels. Can be associated with changes in behavior, energy, mood, appetite etc. I notice it decreases my appetite and increases my mood an energy
AWESOME post.....Thanks for the info bro...
supernickGood stuff. Using pramypexol now. Started well but it's hell on my digestive tract and my head gets funky. My thoughts skip like a scratched CD and I get slight panic attacks. It's better than boobs, however.
what is your dose? Might be a good idea to lower until you get acclimated to it
supernick1.0 mg daily. I worked my way up as suggested. I wanted the benefits of a higher dose.
i hate prami, damn you prami to hell,, lmfao.. is it better probably but, the sides FOR ME, are unbearable.. even at the lowest doses i get night sweats, cant sleep well.. in the morning i get horrible nausea where i cant eat... ii will not recommend it.. but keep it in mind everyone is different . by the way good info J +1
I hate prami also! Kicked my ass at .125mg
check out my other post. it talks about all of them.
I'm actually not against caber at all!!!! I just tried bringing a friendly argument to the site about pramipexole. mainly to inform. honestly I prefer caber haha
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/how-to-contro...
I ordered both, but have so far only tried the Caber, which worked well dosing it E3D and slowly raising the MGs. It worked good, like it was supposed to.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/caber-and-prami-from-reliable-rx-pharmacy
i like caber every 5 days
Thank you brother! Prolactin has snuck up on me this cycle and from a unlikely compound :( Will be ordering some prami tomorrow. + 1
Great information!! Being a newb to aas and getting ready for my 1st cycle, this is very valuable info. Thanks again
Very good thread. A question. Prami needs to increase dosage slowly, but when i want to leave prami, i need to DECREASE dosage slowy too?
Thanks
YES, it is best to SLOWLY titrate down.
NEVER GO COLD TURKEY. These drugs alter the neurotransmitters and hormones in your brain, make slow subtle changes. It's always a good idea to go slow taper so your body can adjust.
I believe you can just stop all together.
HELL no! That can cause serious withdrawal issues. You need to taper but not as slow as you tapered up. Trust me, I've done it both ways. Tapering down is very easy. Not tapering down leaves you somewhat batt shit crazy for a few days.
Fair enough mate, I remember reading it but can´t remember where.
Thanks for commenting with your anecdotal experience.
I´m up to 1 gram but still lactating.
Have Caber on the way and want to give that a go to see if I stop lactating.
BilMcbigballsVery good read. +1 I prefer caber hands down tho. No sides= awesome
they are both dopamine agonist, they will both give you the same "results" the primary difference between them for us is often the side effect issues. although the side effects are often because they arent taken properly.
"Well The problem is Cabergoline is an expensive medication."
No. It is inexpensive since the dose required is very low and is taken infrequently.
" It is hard to find, "
False. Easy to find.
"unstable in liquid form, "
No one should be buying reserch chems in the first place.
"and often must be pre-ordered months in advance."
Please.
"Not to mention the cost each pill is between five to twenty bucks, and if you are running an 18 week long deca cycle, your talking hundreds of dollars."
False. The pills run $1 or less
"So what is the best option? Pramipexole."
Wrong.
its really a matter of choice and what youre able to tolerate better. I prefer prami, and prami is cheaper. i tolerate it very well and it works great for me. i would recommend it to anyone. running it correctly seems to be the biggest challenge for people and thats why it becomes so unliked
Yes Cabergoline is a pretty expensive drug. Some people need MORE than 0.5mg per week for prolactin reduction.
Correct!!! I was just saying it is unstable as a liquid... That was the whole purpose of my statement. Your argument is basically the same as my argument just worded differently.
please read my less subjective more current prolactin thread.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/how-to-contro...
j223,
I wanted to apologize for being a dick. I had some different views on this matter which I should have stated respectfully.
Peace, bro
SchnizeThis just sold me on using prami for my upcoming tren cylcle!
I've been using prami for a week, I'm already @ .5mg tapering up from .25mg for some days, with zero sides so far (except for the first day)
And it costs me 0.65$ per week!
Anonadded to "favs"
Cabergoline - ttphamstore.com I received the order and it was on time and the pills work great.
Scammer.
Hey did you get the blood test done on the prami yet for your prolactin?
Anonyea it was legit.. too bad I cant say the same for my AI.. prolactin was like 1.7, estro was 800+,
http://www.eroids.com/pics/bunk-ass-aromasin
Awesome thats good news!! SO even with a MASSIVE amount of estrogen Prami COMPLETELY eliminated 99% of your prolactin. That shows even with a perfect environment for prolactin to increase the Prami kept it in check.
There you have it proof prami works to it's expectations.
By the way did you take anything different for your estrogen? I heard Prami can help slightly reduce estrogen but I don't think it would be that drastic of a change
AnonPrami doesnt seem to be all that common either . Im interested in trying it out one day, but dont see it offered in most sources ancilliary sections
pm me if you need a source. But many of our hgh&pep sources carry it and they all are good quality.
LaBahiaHello, I just sent you a FR. Wondering if you could help me with a good source for Prami? thanks
Great article about prami/caber. I sent you a request - would like to PM and ask a few questions if you wouldn't mind.
Check out Infidels bloodwork and review - seems to have a source that's gtg
Ok, I found out why caber may not be good for the heart. Remember, though, the dose makes the poison.
Caber can cause heart valve defects. This is because it also acts as an agonist at 5-HT2b receptors. This a type of serotonin receptor. Stimulation of this receptor can "lead to pathological proliferation of cardiac valve fiboblasts. Chronic overstimulation of 5-HT2b can lead to severe valvulopathy."
It can, but like you said it depends on the dosage...
http://www.schmidtandclark.com/dostinex-valvular-heart-disease
The take-away from the New England Journal of Medicine...you'd have to be using at dosages of 3mg daily for 6 mos or longer to be at increased risk. You'd do this for parkinson's treatment, but for a typical AAS cycle doing .25mg e3d? But then again if your name is benchinator you might do a 6 mos cycle and take this dosage. Anyway, there's definitely a risk, but it shouldn't be overblown.
Cabergoline not that expensive. Less than $4 per/week.
Thx...I really appreciate these type of posts that compare different ancillaries so we can make more informed choices. I've used caber and am satisfied with it...no noteable negative sides, but would be willing to try another solution to explore its advantages. Gave u a +1 already
No problem bud. Yea it's always nice to have other options. I do not knock cabergoline, it is very good at what it does, low on side effects and easy to dose. If the price came down and availability went up, then that would be cool. Until then Prami is the best option!! (to those who tolerate it well)
Just like anything, most people tolerate things well but there will always be someone who can not take a certain drug. Me for example I get way too many sides from aromasin. I know a guy who cant take tamoxifen, so yea for people who cant take caber - there is prami!
THANK U, bro, i ll mark this post, +1, Man u did me a great deal
Good to hear my dude! glad it helped.
awesome post brutha saved me some money for this cycle lol and possibly carpel tunnel which im prone too with even test ! +1
No problem my dude. That was the goal, to spread the word that there are other options than Cabergoline.
Good info really like the GH portion.
Yeah I have actually seen many reports showing a 400% increase! They did pub med studies of people taking prami and tested gh levels throughout and made graphs. Good stuff.
I HEARD 1-2mg is almost equivilent to 3-4IU HGH in terms of GH increase. This is not fact but still not bad at all even if it's more like 1-2IU.
http://www.afboard.com/images/pramiGH.jpg