Update 3/5/13 guys please give opinions on this if you have the time
I am starting TRT feb 12, and have a few concerns. Overall I'm excited, and as long as I don't have any unexpected issues, plan to stay on permanently. The prospect of no more pct, getting ahead of the curve instead of waiting till I feel terrible from low test, and being able to run true pharmaceutical test are just more than I can resist. My doc is really cool about giving me what I want dose wise, but she wants to start me at 100mg a week. My natty test is low 600's. I know that's not super low, but it's low compared to 5 years ago. My question for the vets and anybody that feels like commenting, is how suppressed will I get on 100mg? It doesn't sound like much, but my frame of reference is cycling, and TRT is a whole new ball game dosage wise. Any words of wisdom are appreciated:-)
Update 3/5/13:
I listened to what you guys said and didn't start TRT or cruise based on the consensus. I felt like shit though so I went and got full bloods thru my endo. My test had dropped to 460. Approx 30% drop in one year. At age 30 I was in the 8/9s, 32 I was 6s, and now 4s. So today I got more labs and am now on TRT officially. It runs in my families genetics, my dad never touched juice and went on at 38 years old. plus having 2 back surgeries, military injuries, and a shoulder surgery apparently hastened my test decline, cycling even though I did them intelligently and with good pct/time off probably didn't help either. So I'm now 100mg cyp E4D, 1.5 iu hgh ED, and pharma t3. (She offered me deca as well, but I turned it down for now. What do you guys think about adding deca to TRT??)
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Deca caused me to have erection problems. My ed medication did not help. I stopped using it and will never use it again. I was also using testosterone at the time.
What dosages of test and deca were you running? Were you taking caber? Thanks
Sup Lordajax.... I don't have much to add..... pankration got you covered lil bro. Wanna tell you about my 1 day experience with thyroxine (T4). Family member has this prescribed, was bored one day, seen em laying out, thought to myself..."I wonder what the hype is about" So I split the 88mcg tablet, giving me 44mcgs of T4... Fugg that shit my man,... had me wanting to crawl outta my own ass, jittery, couldn't fing sit still for 4-5 hours... was miserable, actually thought "Am I gonna have to carry my ass to the emergency room" LoL If you're gonna do it anyway, like Pank said, get a thyroid test at least. Keep us posted ;-)
Will do bro, I had blood drawn yesterday for thyroid so we will see. I've heard of t4 giving people problems like you describe, but what about t3?
lil bro, me personally will NEVER mess with any T4 or T3. My bud takes a kelp supplement, the iodine will help regulate the thyroid, but I'm sure you can get too much of that as well. If your trying to get rid of unwanted fat, just do the ole fashioned fasted morning cardio (30-40 min) .... split it up, do 30 min in the morning, 30min in the evening, remember your carb manipulation will play a HUGE role in this journey :-)
Thanks bro, that seems to be the overwhelming consensus of the feedback I've gotten. I appreciate your input
see right there, those are the stories that make the difference! +1
Hey thanks Pank.... although I hate that it took scaring the shit outta me to never try that again :-)
My pleasure! Honestly your pain could save many from disaster if that doesn't deserve karma I don't know what does.
I have a really good endocrinologist for my prescription stuff. The reason why I say he is good is he told me that everyone really is different with body chemistry which I have always believe. It is also the reason why one person if diet and training is equal can much out of a certain compound and the other person not respond well at all or have negative effects. My Dr said one man's testosterone level could be perfect for him but insufficient for another man. So we can all tell you are stories but ultimately you know what you feel best at and of course maintain health at. I say if you feel better at a certain level do it and stay healthy. I know Viking who has been on for over 20 years doesn't come off and not only does he look unbelievable for a guy in his 20s let alone being over fifty. He is also healthy. I am not saying that everyone can do that but it does show that everyone is different and we all speak primarily from our own personal experience. Therefore everyone is right here when speaking for themselves. You know brother we have talked about our wounds and injuries from the service and I use deca for my TRT and don't even consider it a cycle drug. I hate pain killers and because of my wounds I can get anything but I don't like them, but deca allows me to function with freedom like I have not had for years. I get tested every month I use cabergoline and I have had no negative known effects to date. My only thing my friend that I am very skeptical about just from reading and studying is playing with T3. I say get your thyroid tested first before you mess with that stuff. Your wise man and a warrior I have no doubt you will do right!
Posts like this are why I love this community. Thanks for sharing all that info and thought, I agree on the t3 actually, and am concerned about it. The deca I was less concerned about, and feel it will help with old injuries like my shoulder and knees. What dose of deca do you feel would be appropriate for the amount of test I'm running? I've always stayed clear in the past of deca because of shut down, but obviously that's no longer a factor for me. Also, what dose of caber do you recommend on TRT for what we are discussing? Thanks again for the input bro, I trust you guys more than my own doctor.
I have had no problems running deca at the same dosage as the test. I know that goes against popular advice but it has worked for me. And because of my injuries my endo recommended it as well. so see what dose your dr wants to put you on.
She wanted to run it at the same dosage as the test as well
Mine did the same and it has been perfect so far. My Dr knows his shit I only say that because so far what he has said has happen otherwise I would drop him.
I'm gonna add it in, did you add caber because you were experiencing issues? Or did you do it proactively before sides manifested themselves?
I was diagnosed with Macroprolactinomas in a nut shell a benign tumor that effects prolactin release so I was on cabergoline before the deca.
Wow.... I am glad to hear that it's benign brother.
Yeah me too lol. It is more common then people think.
Glad caber took care of it instead of surgery, shit.
AnonI wish I could give you my opinion but Even though I didn't need testosterone in my 20's I took it anyway because I was a power lifter. I'm 51 now and on HRT but I still run it high.
Ultimately the decision will be up to you. I know if my levels were in the 600s my doctor wouldn't prescribe me anything but that doesn't mean I wouldn't add some.
One thing is for sure, what ever decision that you make will be the right one.
Very true bro. Mine are in the 400s now though, that's why I started TRT today. Dropped over 200 in less than a year
At what time did you get the test done? I seen a study on test levels how they cycle through the day and on a young person it can vary 35% which is a lot. I also seen another study that showed in older men it was 15-20%. Here is the study on the younger men.
"In males, serum testosterone levels show a circadian variation, with the highest levels in the morning and lowest levels in the late afternoon. In young men, the variation in testosterone levels is approximately 35%. Although the normal range for serum testosterone might vary between different laboratories, the normal range for early morning total testosterone in healthy adult males is approximately 300 ng/dL to 1000 ng/dL.7,8"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472884/
That's a great point, and very valid. To remove as many outside factors as I could, I made sure I followed the same workout program for 72 hrs before blood draw, and got them both at 11am. I'm sure there are still fluctuations no matter what, but I tried my best to mitigate that. The numbers really seem to correspond with how I actually feel as well, I felt pretty good until the last 6 months or so which is when it dropped. Now I'm on trt, and I feel like I did last year before they dropped, great. My whole life has improved as well as my attitude.
Yeah brotha, like the others have said, low 600's is NOT low test in my eyes..... mine was below 150 when I started TRT ...wait until your 35, thats when it went downhill for me
AnonIt was about 42 for me and when it went down, it was almost immediate.
Thanks bro, good points for sure
That was my original plan, my test has dropped from the 800's and I can definitely feel the difference. I guess I'm just not sure how far I should let it go down before I take action.
low 600s? i would try to hold off a bit if you are still sitting that high. my opinion, in the end its your choice
Well I appreciate your opinion bro, I may cruise for a while and see if I feel like staying on...if I don't feel a big difference I'll stop for sure.
In my opinion. I would wait ten more years so you can get the most out of your body you possibly can right now. You are a long ways off from needing TRT. You just have a really cool doc! You are intentionally suppressing your system so it doesn't really matter how much you suppress it does it? I can understand the eagerness though, I am only thirty eight and I love the idea of being strong and having the edge all the time. But your body gets used to it and you have to increase dosage to keep that feeling going I suspect.
She's cool in the sense she will give me whatever I want. It just means I really need to check stuff with you guys as well, because she is so aggressive.